Blackpool Jags Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Got to be honest, I find him about as funny as professional Scouser, John Bishop. That said, and putting his clear anti-Liverpool feelings to one side, I still wonder what is so different in the Liverpool FC mindset that compels them not to play on the anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster, when Rangers and Bradford City don't insist on football abstinence on the anniversary of their respective stadium disasters. There is absolutely no question that what happened on that fatal day 23 years ago was simply terrible beyond the realms of your worst nightmares; but the same could be said of the equally tragic events in Glasgow and Bradford which occurred either side of Hillsborough. And at the risk of coming across as hostile to those who still recollect with horror the tragic happenings of 15th April 1989 - and that is not my intention - there is a growing stream of opinion down this way that the fans of LFC should respectfully let the issue drop out of the prominent spotlight it occupies in the media. I hear good and decent people say that the Hillsborough Justice Campaign is turning people off, with their regular radio and TV plugs, and that they should retreat into a more dignified silence along the lines of the low profiles adopted by Rangers and Bradford City. I have to say that I go along with that sentiment and that calls for a 3rd or 4th inquiry are not the way to garner popular support: quite the opposite. The fact that Hillsborough is seen as different from the tragedies at Ibrox and Bradford due to the perceived culpability of the police there doesn't, in my opinion, warrant large scale media exposure in an attempt to get justice, as it now seems to be taking dignity away from the victims themselves. I know that opinion is bound to be split on this thorny issue, but I genuinely feel that it's now time to gracefully wind things down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I agree wholeheartedly with Davies. Liverpool absolutely love wallowing in grief, in fact the whole country loves it, but Liverpool particularly so. Manchester United played a derby on the anniversary of the Munich disaster a year or two back, I don't remember them requesting it be played on a different date. If their fans were that bothered by the events of Hillsborough, they wouldn't display banners like this one here. The FA should have just told them to play on the 15th or withdraw from the FA cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I agree in some way, they should probably play on the date. But on the Hillsborough issue, I still think the police have a hell of a lot to answer for. There can be no doubt that there was a massive cover up, involving many different areas of the establishment. The police, the government, Rupert Murdoch's tory press were all in on it, so I can see why the justice campaign is still going, but maybe it is time to start playing matches on the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy davie Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 There's no justification whatsoever for not playing. The club are clearly tryng to divert attention away from their piss-poor league campaign while at the same time trying to cast torn-faced tosser Dalglish in the role of 'dignified elder statesman' rather than clueless fckn eejit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) What about Heysel? We'll just forget about that then eh... Edited April 13, 2012 by MWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernsoul Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Liverpool FC are a joke. Their own fans had just as big a part to play in the Hillsborough disaster as the Police did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Liverpool FC are a joke. Their own fans had just as big a part to play in the Hillsborough disaster as the Police did. I don't understand why Hillsborough in isolation should be sacrosanct. What about Heysel? I've never heard of Bradford not playing on anniversary dates of their terrible fire or Welsh rugby clubs refusing to play on the 21st Oct (Aberfan). All that said I would never ever make a statement as quoted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I think they need to get over it. Was it a horrific tragedy? Yes. Did it cause considerable ongoing emotional pain among the Liverpool fraternity and their families? Yes. Should they be allowed to take steps to commemorate their loss (e.g. minute's silence/applause a wreath/symbolic presentation before the game and/or black armbands)? Yes. Should they be allowed to disrupt an organised fixture-list years after the event? No, absolutely not. Postponements to a conventional fixture-list are justified only where the pitch is unplayable/ground unsafe for fans or in very exceptional circumstances where a Club is hit by the trauma of the death or serious injury to a current player (e.g. a Muamba or Phil O'Donnell situation). If we were really pushing it if a player had strong links to a club who they ceased to play for a short while ago, it might be acceptable for a former club to reach a discretionary agreement with their opponents to postpone a game. But Hillsborough happened thirteen years ago, not last week. Let's get a sense of perspective here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I couldn't get on this forum in work for some reason today, a royal pain because it is the only football forum I read that is always 'safe for work'. Anyway, coincidently I posted the following on Facebook on the way home after reading plenty of Hillsborough related Tweets: "Do Liverpool refuse to play on the anniversary of their murder of 39 Juve fans? As tragic as Hillsborough was you'd think they'd have the humility to wind this annual grief fest in." I was only 4 years old when HIllsborough happened, I don't know where I was when it happened, if Thistle were at home I would have been there, if we were away I was probably watching Grandstand, if I didn't I saw it on the news. Because years later, still a youngster, I remember watching the ITV documentary about it with my parents in stunned silence, it brought the whole thing back, it was unbelievable, one of the most moving things I had ever seen. For a long time I've been interested in what happened, I've read about it online, I've watched documentaries and I even have 2 books about it on my bookshelf, one called 'The Truth'. I fully accept it was pretty much all the fault of the police and terrible organisation, the subsequent cover up was ridiculous, what the Sun wrote was pathetic and what Thatcher did was a joke. Are Liverpool fans blameless? No, but it wasn't their fault. But there is no dignity in what they are doing. And the irony of the club acting the way they have against a backdrop of Heysel is a pathetic.It was only recently Liverpool acknowledged any blame for Heysel. They played Juve in the Champions League a few years ago, the Kop displayed a banner that said, I think, 'friendship', the Juve fans in the away end turned their back on it. At the game in Turin their banner was simple, "We Hate Liverpool". Also lets not forget Liverpool supporters, the ones united in grief annually about Hillsborough and demanding justice regularly taunt Everton fans at derby games. Nothing unusual in that. But they taunt them by singing about Steuau Bucharest and by waving Steuau Bucharest banners. Why? Because the then dominant Everton were the victims of the European ban imposed on England and it was Bucharest who either won it that year or who Everton were meant to be playing or maybe both. Oh and in the past they have a right good laugh will leading Everton in the derby, "Two nil to the murderers". They have no class, they are hypocrites and they are pathetic. I hate Liverpool football club precisely because they think they are more than a football club. I read a blog once where a Chelsea fan accused Liverpool of being a religion, the Liverpool's fans response just confirmed it and it is completely true. I managed to find it on Google, very good read I think - http://jonnymacc.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/liverpool-is-religion-is-that-bad-thing.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I think they need to get over it. Was it a horrific tragedy? Yes. Did it cause considerable ongoing emotional pain among the Liverpool fraternity and their families? Yes. Should they be allowed to take steps to commemorate their loss (e.g. minute's silence/applause a wreath/symbolic presentation before the game and/or black armbands)? Yes. Should they be allowed to disrupt an organised fixture-list years after the event? No, absolutely not. Postponements to a conventional fixture-list are justified only where the pitch is unplayable/ground unsafe for fans or in very exceptional circumstances where a Club is hit by the trauma of the death or serious injury to a current player (e.g. a Muamba or Phil O'Donnell situation). If we were really pushing it if a player had strong links to a club who they ceased to play for a short while ago, it might be acceptable for a former club to reach a discretionary agreement with their opponents to postpone a game. But Hillsborough happened thirteen years ago, not last week. Let's get a sense of perspective here. Firstly Hillsborough happened 23 yrs ago not 13. There is an ongoing agreement with the English FA and Liverpool that they don't play on the anniversary of the Hillsborough. Liverpool didn't refuse to play on the date. The semi finals were set over 2 dates, when Liverpool made it to the semi this year it was agreed they would play on the date that did not fall on the anniversary. My own view is that it should be up to the families of the deceased to decide if they want the club to play on the anniversary or not. Given the horrendous acts of the UK government, the police at the time and the press, the matter has dragged on for 23 years. Those who are so against them wanting justice ask your self this. If a loved one went to a football match and never came home. Then as if to spit on their grave, you hear that they were to blame for it, they robbed their fellow fans, peed on them. Then you find out that so many could have been saved if they had allowed emergency services access to the park to save them. What those families have been subjected to from that day has been sickening. Would you sit on your ass and do nothing or would you fight till your last breath for the answers and to clear their name? I don't personally know any of you who have posted on this thread.......but something tells me, since some of you are quick to moan if your pie is cold at Firhill on a Saturday, that you would not rest until you had justice for your loved one. Oh and sure they were guilty of crowd trouble at Heysel, as for the record ,were Juve fans. They did not set out for the wall to collapse , some 100 yrds away from where the two sets of fans were fighting. To call it murder is just stupid. I'll be at Firhill tomorrow to cheer the jags on, as i was 23 years ago against Meadowbank. This time instead of my usual jags scarf, I'll be wearing my "justice for the 96" one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 "They did not set out for the wall to collapse", isn't that like saying "South Yorkshire Police did not intend for them all to go into the central pens"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Liverpool FC are a joke an really should have a black armband permastitched into their replica top - they do like a good mope. I'm heartily sick of non-stop minutes silences and applauses for this that and the other. I agree with WJ when there's a direct link with a player it could be argued but not the over the top stuff when Speed died or for upcoming nonsense like when Havelange pops his clogs and the world 'football family' have to pay respects. Despite the fact it was a terrible tragedy (and I remember watching it unfold on TV), the FA should have had the balls to front them up as Chelsea (and I'm no fan of them either) could have done with the Sarurday game due to their CL semi-final. 'mon the toffees! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Firstly Hillsborough happened 23 yrs ago not 13. Indeed. Apologies. All the more reason for the Club to draw a line under this "not playing" nonsense. There is an ongoing agreement with the English FA and Liverpool that they don't play on the anniversary of the Hillsborough. Liverpool didn't refuse to play on the date. The semi finals were set over 2 dates, when Liverpool made it to the semi this year it was agreed they would play on the date that did not fall on the anniversary. An agreement with the FA that should be terminated. They are a professional football club. Their obligations are to the integrity of the competitions they take part in, not to play whenever they say is convenient for them. My own view is that it should be up to the families of the deceased to decide if they want the club to play on the anniversary or not. Given the horrendous acts of the UK government, the police at the time and the press, the matter has dragged on for 23 years. Those who are so against them wanting justice ask your self this. If a loved one went to a football match and never came home. Then as if to spit on their grave, you hear that they were to blame for it, they robbed their fellow fans, peed on them. Then you find out that so many could have been saved if they had allowed emergency services access to the park to save them. What those families have been subjected to from that day has been sickening. Would you sit on your ass and do nothing or would you fight till your last breath for the answers and to clear their name? Right. Great. There's these things called the Courts and Public Inquiries to serve justice. Not playing on the anniversary does nothing to "clear the name" of anyone who feels scorned by the press reporting of the Hillsborough disaster. It should have absolutely nothing to do with the families of some Liverpool fans from more than a generation ago when the English FA arranges its fixtures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 "They did not set out for the wall to collapse", isn't that like saying "South Yorkshire Police did not intend for them all to go into the central pens"? It is , but then I never accused south yorkshire police of murder!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Indeed. Apologies. All the more reason for the Club to draw a line under this "not playing" nonsense. An agreement with the FA that should be terminated. They are a professional football club. Their obligations are to the integrity of the competitions they take part in, not to play whenever they say is convenient for them. Right. Great. There's these things called the Courts and Public Inquiries to serve justice. Not playing on the anniversary does nothing to "clear the name" of anyone who feels scorned by the press reporting of the Hillsborough disaster. It should have absolutely nothing to do with the families of some Liverpool fans from more than a generation ago when the English FA arranges its fixtures. Such a pity that the courts and public inquiries to date have been shambolic. Hopefully though, this year can bring closure to the families involved. I'd argue it's got nothing to do with anyone other than the FA, Liverpool FC and the families of those who died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thornwoodjag Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I fully understand why Liverpool don't want to play on that date.just like I would understand if Bradford or Rangers asked not to play on their sad days.if,god forbid,anything close to resembling hillsborough happened to thistle.I certainly wouldn't like to play on the date again.I reckon it would be hard for us all. As for Kenny Dalglish,what he and his squad did for the city of Liverpool during the aftermath is what he is loved for most by the fans. Now everyone on here is entitled to their opinion,but in my eyes Kenny is well entitled to be called king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACAB Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I want to commend the original poster on the balance he has shown with his sympathy towards to events of 15/04/89 and his views that a line should be drawn under the tragedy. 23 years ago come Sunday is the only time I've left a game at Firhill early - 10 minutes into the second half. Some chap in the main stand had a radio and was relaying the news from Sheffield. I was there with my Dad and Grandfather and it is the only time I'd ever seen them visably upset at anything in my life. It was only much later that I found out that my old man was on that stairwell at Ibrox where so many people lost there lives and, I guess, it brought a lot of bad memories for them. I was too young to know what was going on at that time and didn't know he was there. For additinal information he was there with a Falkirk supporting friend of his for something to do. The fire at Valley Parade was a tragic accident caused by a discarded cigarette. Heysel was caused by crowd voilence where scared innocent fans attempted to escape a thuggish rampage by hooligans. Please bear in mind that this was not uncommon in the eighties and even a game at Firhill was stopped because of this behaviour. Ibrox was a consequence of a late goal where the flow out of the ground was halted leading to the crush. Hillsborough was caused by human error and, has been previously posted, a massive cover up and smear campaign ensued from that moment. I, for one, would want justice in those cicumstances. For the record, I think there is nothing wrong with Liverpool requesting that they play on the Saturday to avoid playing on the anniversary and the FA of England granting that reasonable request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I'd argue it's got nothing to do with anyone other than the FA, Liverpool FC and the families of those who died. I'd argue it's got nothing to do with anyone other than the FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morfin Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 I would like to add that when I read that the police have a lot to answer for I do agree, but would have to say that many of the rank and file coppers that day were heroes. They got the game stopped (one ran to the ref when his superiors stood doing nothing), they tried the kiss of life, they pulled some to safety and they are the ones having nightmares probably to this day over what they saw. Those at fault both that day and in any cover up were mostly the officer class, inspectors and above who had no idea how to do their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 It is , but then I never accused south yorkshire police of murder!! You're clearly a follower of the church of Liverpool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 I would like to add that when I read that the police have a lot to answer for I do agree, but would have to say that many of the rank and file coppers that day were heroes. They got the game stopped (one ran to the ref when his superiors stood doing nothing), they tried the kiss of life, they pulled some to safety and they are the ones having nightmares probably to this day over what they saw. Those at fault both that day and in any cover up were mostly the officer class, inspectors and above who had no idea how to do their job. I'd like to think anyone of a rational mind would concur and even those emotionally scarred would only target their blame at senior level. A personal recall. I remember driving north a day or so before and noticing major roadworks eastbound on the M62. When I heard that Saturday morning Liverpool were playing in Sheffield I thought to myself I bet that game kicks off late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee jim Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 I find all this public show of mourning a wee bit tedious. Every other day some disaster or other is merited a public airing. Somehow it all seems a bit contrived. My parents and dear sister died a number of years ago and sometimes, not every anniversary, I take a wander up to the crematorium and spend a few minutes in silent reflection. Wouldn’t it be better if we allowed tragic events slip from national focus and for individuals to observe whatever tributes they think appropriate. But I suspect personal silent reflection does not suit some agendas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) You're clearly a follower of the church of Liverpool. I am and I've never hidden the fact on here either. I've followed them since around the age of 7, when Kenny joined them. It's been suggested that Liverpool don't play on the 15th as a "protest" (not by yourself). It's not a protest, it's the fact that the memorial service takes place at Anfield on the 15th, when the city comes together, reds and blues, to mourn and pay respect to the dead. I think everyone wishes that Hillsborough was not so in the public domain as it still is. Thatcher, her government, Kelvin MacKenzie and others at the Sun, plus some in both Merseyside and South Yorkshire police, have ensured that it is. Until the families get the justice that they so deserve, I want it to remain that way. Edited April 14, 2012 by lennythistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thornwoodjag Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 I'm never been so happy to see Liverpool winning as I was today. And yeah I'm a follower too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Stronach Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Liverpool are a repulsive club. I despise everything about them. From their half-wit of a manager to their scumbag players like "nae neck" Bellamy, wife-beater Carrol and racist Suarez. They're the Celtic of England with their relentless and tasteless public mourning. Not to mention their scumbag, racist, theiving, murdering fans. No English club provokes such a feeling of hatred in me. It was a travesty that Everton never won today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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