Clive Tilsley

[1876Jag]

It's a British broadcaster. The ref and linesman are British and are the ones that we see in British football regularly. Obviously they're going to have more to say about them than some other country's refs/players.

 

If Scottish people think English commentators are bad for 'going on', have a look down this messageboard. One thing more tedious than being Scottish during an English world cup campaign is supporting England at the world cup, whilst living in Scotland, and having to put up with the pathetic wee team, chip-on-the-shoulder perspectives of 9 in 10 people here. If you don't want a British perspective on commentary when you're watching Brazil-Chile, move to Rio or Santiago.

 

The referee is supposed to be an objective adjudicator, therefore his nationality is irrelevant. There is no need to make any comment about the referee (or his nationality) other than when a decision is good or bad

 

I want an objective commentary when watching any teams play, not one constantly biased towards England and dismissive of anything that isn't English.

[Tam]

An English guy on tv last night was so happy about H Webb's refereeing skills that he feels "england will be at the world cup final now" ! It beggars belief

[PaleGreySky]

And what if STV was showing the game? Would it be OK to have an OF perspective on it?

 

Yes. If the USA were playing an they mentioned Rangers because of Edu or Beasley, I wouldn't even think twice about it. The other day they played a montage of Scotland world cup moments because Hansen is Scottish and was in the studio - are any of you upset about that?

[Leith Jag]

It's a British broadcaster. The ref and linesman are British and are the ones that we see in British football regularly. Obviously they're going to have more to say about them than some other country's refs/players.

 

If Scottish people think English commentators are bad for 'going on', have a look down this messageboard. One thing more tedious than being Scottish during an English world cup campaign is supporting England at the world cup, whilst living in Scotland, and having to put up with the pathetic wee team, chip-on-the-shoulder perspectives of 9 in 10 people here. If you don't want a British perspective on commentary when you're watching Brazil-Chile, move to Rio or Santiago.

But it's not a 'british' commentary. It's a total biased 'english' commentary. It is totally based on an english perspective. It should only be broadcast in England. What I would prefer would be a Scottish commentary team covering the world cup regardless of whether or not Scotland is there. And we could all moan about Chick Young!

[NZ Jag]

Sorry to be pedantic, but the FIFA referees list has Howard Webb as being from England and, as far as I am aware he referees in the English Premier League. In terms of football, he is there as arepresentative of England. We see him in English football regularly, I don't recall seeing the bold Howard doing too many games in the SPL or the Welsh Premier League.

 

Just saying...

[Hot Shot]

Is it not a bit of a myth that GSTQ has an offensive line it about rebellious Scots to crush?

 

As far as I can remember from the last time I got involved in a debate about it, it was written in to a version around the mid 1700s because of anti jacobite feelings and was promptly discarded not long after, and certainly wasn't in the lyrics when it was chosen is the national anthem around the late 1700s.

[arnus68]

Make your own mind up. Edited June 29, 2010 by arnus68

[Hot Shot]

Make yor own mind up.

 

 

Seems the myth lives on then

 

Done a quick search and lifted this from Wiki................

 

.......There is no definitive version of the lyrics. However, the version consisting of the three verses reproduced in the blue box on the right hand side has the best claim to be regarded as the 'standard' UK version, appearing not only in the 1745 Gentleman's Magazine, but also in publications such as The Book of English Songs: From the Sixteenth to the Nineteenth Century (1851),National Hymns: How They are Written and how They are Not Written (1861),Household Book of Poetry (1882),and Hymns Ancient and Modern, revised version (1982) The same version with verse two omitted appears in publications including Scouting for boys (1908), and on the U.K. Government's "Monarchy Today" website. At the Queen's Golden Jubilee Party at the Palace concert, Prince Charles referred in his speech to the "politically incorrect second verse" of the National Anthem.

 

According to Alan Michie's "God Save the Queen," which was published in 1952 after the death of King George VI but prior to the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II, the first General Assembly of the United Nations was held in London in January, 1946, and the King, in honour of the occasion, "ordered the belligerent imperious second stanza of 'God Save the King' rewritten to bring it more into the spirit of the brotherhood of nations."

 

In the United Kingdom, the first verse is the only verse typically sung, even at official occasions, although the third verse is sung in addition on rare occasions, and usually at the Last Night of the Proms. At the Closing Ceremony of the 2008 Beijing Olympics, the fourth verse of the William Hixton alternative lyrics was sung instead of the third verse.

 

Around 1745, anti-Jacobite sentiment was captured in a verse appended to the song, with a prayer for the success of Field Marshal George Wade's army then assembling at Newcastle. These words attained some short-term use, although they did not appear in the published version in the October 1745 Gentleman's Magazine. The source of this verse was a later article on the song, published by the Gentleman's Magazine in 1837. Therein, it is presented as an "additional verse... though being of temporary application only... stored in the memory of an old friend... who was born in the very year 1745, and was thus the associate of those who heard it first sung", the lyrics given being:

 

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,

May by thy mighty aid,

Victory bring.

May he sedition hush,

and like a torrent rush,

Rebellious Scots to crush,

God save the King.

The 1837 article and other sources make it clear that this verse was not used soon after 1745, and certainly before the song became accepted as the British national anthem in the 1780s and 1790s. It was included as an integral part of the song in the Oxford Book of Eighteenth Century Verse of 1926, although erroneously referencing the "fourth verse" to the Gentleman's Magazine article of 1745.

 

On the opposing side, Jacobite beliefs were demonstrated in an alternative verse used during the same period

 

God bless the prince, I pray,

God bless the prince, I pray,

Charlie I mean;

That Scotland we may see

Freed from vile Presbyt'ry,

Both George and his Feckie,

Ever so, Amen.

Various other attempts were made during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to add verses to commemorate particular royal or national events. For example, according to Fitzroy Maclean, when Jacobite forces bypassed Wade's force and reached Derby, but then retreated and when their garrison at Carlisle Castle surrendered to a second government army led by King George's son, the Duke of Cumberland, another verse was added. Other short-lived verses were notably anti-French, such as the following, quoted in the book Handel by Edward J. Dent

 

From France and Pretender

Great Britain defend her,

Foes let them fall;

From foreign slavery,

Priests and their knavery,

And Popish Reverie,

God save us all.

However, none of these survived into the twentieth century.

[erzamacaroonbars]

Interesting collection of views here! I am one of those 9 out of 10 who have a chip on their shoulder, I like having a chip on my shoulder and I think I may be getting another one on the other shoulder. However, I agreee that fans shouldn't boo the national anthems, but also agree that England show extreme arrogance in using GSTQ in the first place. It is the British national anthem, England are not there as representatives of Britain but just themselves, it would be played even if all home nations were present. Jerusalem is another pointless dirge with sod all the do with England and Rule Brittania, well the clue is in the title (its not English). Perhaps a selection of Chas n' Dave hits would be most appropriate!

Seriously though I do wish England would choose their own song, a sdong for England not for Britain! Apart from the commentators and press, it is just this sort of unthinking arrogance that grates on the rest of the British Isles. In my opinion.

[arnus68]

Agadoo would be a good national anthem for England.

[Mr Bunny]

There's a discussion about this here - nal_anthem_of_England

 

I'd say Jerusalem would be best but I'd hate to hear them sing it - only the Welsh fans can actually sing, English (and Scottish) fans are pretty carp.

[Jaggernaut]

There's a discussion about this here - nal_anthem_of_England

 

I'd say Jerusalem would be best but I'd hate to hear them sing it - only the Welsh fans can actually sing, English (and Scottish) fans are pretty carp.

Anybody here remember the McGill Five?

[Vladimir Putin]

If Howard Webb gets the final we should all just forget about the game and let him lift the World Cup. The way Tyldesley was eulogising him I think he expects this to happen. Let's give Webb the Golden Boot and Player of the Tournament while we're at it.

[crazy davie]

Perhaps a selection of Chas n' Dave hits would be most appropriate!

[Wiltshire Jag]

England don't use GSTQ at the Commonwealth Games, they did use LOH&G, but for the 2010 Commonwealth Games, a poll was conducted and Jerusalem chosen as the anthem to be used for "Team England".

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Anybody here remember the McGill Five?

No, but my neighbour had a Renault 4

[Mediocre Pundit]

No chance. I don't like the concept of 'God' and I do not recognise the rights of a monarch. Regardless of the fact that England have the arrogance to use the anthem of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to represent themselves, I'll boo it always for these reasons.

I don't like or recognise the concept of "Imaginary Numbers" but I respected my classmates enough not to boo through maths class. Show some respect.

[GrantB]

I don't like or recognise the concept of "Imaginary Numbers" but I respected my classmates enough not to boo through maths class. Show some respect.

 

Interesting comparison! I dont think anyone has had to listen to someone talking about imaginary numbers over the tannoy of a football ground immediately before an international match.

 

Why would any decent minded person respect a song about a deity defending a self appointed head of state / religion

[briogadh]

Is it not a bit of a myth that GSTQ has an offensive line it about rebellious Scots to crush?

 

As far as I can remember from the last time I got involved in a debate about it, it was written in to a version around the mid 1700s because of anti jacobite feelings and was promptly discarded not long after, and certainly wasn't in the lyrics when it was chosen is the national anthem around the late 1700s.

 

Exactly. And what's more, the great majority of Scots at the time(1746) were also very happy that their rebel countrymen had been 'crushed', none moreso than the inhabitants of our own fair city! There were more Scots fighting on the government side than for the Jacobites. It was after all a civil war not an England v Scotland confrontation.

[Mediocre Pundit]

Interesting comparison! I dont think anyone has had to listen to someone talking about imaginary numbers over the tannoy of a football ground immediately before an international match.

 

Why would any decent minded person respect a song about a deity defending a self appointed head of state / religion

And I doubt anyone has had to listen to GStQ sung in a maths class.

 

My point is this - when you attend or watch an England match you do so expecting GStQ to be sung. England fans (and working down here most of my colleagues are thus) like it. It's their business. Let them get on with it, and respect the fact that they have a different opinion from you.

 

I went to maths expecting to get a lecture on Imaginary Numbers, knowing that I didn't understand the concept and hence hated it. I sat quietly and let my friends get on with learning it. Why can't you do the same with things that you don't understand or agree with?

[arnus68]

Exactly. And what's more, the great majority of Scots at the time(1746) were also very happy that their rebel countrymen had been 'crushed', none moreso than the inhabitants of our own fair city! There were more Scots fighting on the government side than for the Jacobites. It was after all a civil war not an England v Scotland confrontation.

 

Dirty, money-grabbing traitors that they were.

[Tom Hosie]

And I doubt anyone has had to listen to GStQ sung in a maths class.

 

That's an interesting concept. Would the answer to every question be 1,690.

[GrantB]

And I doubt anyone has had to listen to GStQ sung in a maths class.

 

My point is this - when you attend or watch an England match you do so expecting GStQ to be sung. England fans (and working down here most of my colleagues are thus) like it. It's their business. Let them get on with it, and respect the fact that they have a different opinion from you.

 

I went to maths expecting to get a lecture on Imaginary Numbers, knowing that I didn't understand the concept and hence hated it. I sat quietly and let my friends get on with learning it. Why can't you do the same with things that you don't understand or agree with?

 

I know plenty English people who cringe at the mention of GStQ.

 

However, the main point is that England uses the national anthem of Great Britain & Northern Ireland as their own. That is at best arrogant beyond belief. At least us Scots and the Welsh have the decency to have our own song.

 

I understand GStQ perfectly. That is why I boo it.

[Mediocre Pundit]

I know plenty English people who cringe at the mention of GStQ.

 

However, the main point is that England uses the national anthem of Great Britain & Northern Ireland as their own. That is at best arrogant beyond belief. At least us Scots and the Welsh have the decency to have our own song.

 

I understand GStQ perfectly. That is why I boo it.

England can have it - I don't want it. I don't like the song either, and I choose to acknowledge that personally and not feel the need to insult others because they disagree with me.

[twinny]

I know plenty English people who cringe at the mention of GStQ.

 

However, the main point is that England uses the national anthem of Great Britain & Northern Ireland as their own. That is at best arrogant beyond belief. At least us Scots and the Welsh have the decency to have our own song.

 

I understand GStQ perfectly. That is why I boo it.

 

GSTQ is their national anthem though, and ours too. Until fairly recently it was used for Scotland games. The country we live in is the UK, you do not have to pass any border officials when you move between the home nations, and the country has one national anthem. The use of Flower of Scotland as a national anthem is purely unofficial.

 

I do not know the lyrics to GSTQ and never plan to, but I'll respect those that treat it as their national anthem when it is played (actually that's not true, I jokingly boo along when friends of mine sing it while playing the drinking game).