lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'll take a stab at the crowd being 9000. 7000 of them will be paying an extra £5. That's £35K. I can see where you're coming from but I think you're stretching it a bit. Firstly you're taking everyone paying adult prices. So say of that 7000 there's at least 1000 concessions and 1000 kids I would make that 5000 paying an extra £5 plus 1000 paying an extra £1. That would be down to £26K. Say our support in total in the 9000 crowd is between 3500 and 4000 I would estimate after you take off 2000 ST holders maybe, using the same concession/kid to adult ratio, about 1250 £5 discount vouchers being handed out. That brings it down from £26K to just under £20K. Take off vat and we're talking about £16K-£17K extra. All that based on an anticipated 9000 turnout but if the attendance is lower the stewarding/policing costs remain.the exact same. I happen to believe 9000 may be on the high side just going back to our last league meeting. As Uber points out we're to be charged £25 for a visit to Celtic Pk for what doesn't even reach like for like in value to the North Stand. Thus, imo at least, the moral aspect of us upping the price for Celtic's visit doesn't come into it. I could take Uber's point even further by introducing the likely cost per nut of stewarding us as compared to what we'll be forking out for them but I'm needing a lie down after all that seat of me pants arithmetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 The last time we were in the SPL I'm sure prices were put up for OF matches & no concession prices offered (for both sets of fans). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I don't really have a problem with the club charging an extra fiver as it seems to be the way of it when the bigger opposition come visiting both here and in England, and as has been pointed out we're only charging in the region of what Celtic will be charging us.Equally, I'd happily see the club sticking with twenty quid. I'm just not overly fussed and will be paying the 25 pounds. On the subject of them getting some of the JHS, again, I'm not overly bothered as other clubs do it, although the club should've had the savvy to not sell ST's in the area likely to be given to Celtic. My main beef in all of this is the disgraceful capitulation over the North Stand. The excuses given about the main stand just don't stack up for me. If they did, the stand should be closed permanently as any action which could give rise to a serious fire could take place at any game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 My main beef in all of this is the disgraceful capitulation over the North Stand. The excuses given about the main stand just don't stack up for me. If they did, the stand should be closed permanently as any action which could give rise to a serious fire could take place at any game. "It is our duty to ensure the safety of all supporters. Celtic fans may be in danger if they are allowed into the main stand. Thistle, Hibs, Aberdeen, Hearts fans can burn." Seems not too far off the mark to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinKelvin Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm totally against the move from the North Stand, I put up countless posts over the summer about it. But bumping the game up to £25 is totally justified and the right thing to do Spot on. The North Stand fans should not have to move but as this seems to have been decided a while back (still distatestful and wrong, but it's not going to be changed), let's charge the Bhoys of Athenry, or The Best Fans in the World cos UEFA Says So, or whatever they call themselves, extra money. I'd rather that us Jags fans had a choice of games at which to get the £5 back off the ticket, but St J will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Just had this top secret email passed on to me, can't reveal my source obviously. Heres the matchday itinerary for the Celtic game. 10am: Hospitality to open early, half price guinness, Irish brekkies and the 6-2 skelping of the h*ns will be on the big screens. 10.30am: Paul McStay and Gerry Adams are the guest speakers for the day. 11am: Aitken Suite opens, but for today only it'll be known as Bairds West. Partick Thistle fans have also been banned from here today. 11.15am: The Celtic team bus arrives, to be escorted to the home dressing room. 11.30am: The turnstiles open. The visiting Partick Thistle fans will be handed green smokebombs and songsheets detailing all the words of those famous folk songs at the turnstile by members of the famous Green Brigade. 12pm: The hoops players are to be welcomed onto the pitch by Hoopy and the volunteer bobby sands republican flute band. 12:05pm: The music starts on the PA. Tunes of the day on the will include Charlie and the Bhoys, the wolfetones, U2 and Boyzone. 12.45pm: Kick off, PTFC players form guard of honour. 12.50pm: Celtic fans to be allowed to stand, Partick Thistle fans will be told to sit for safety reasons, something considered paramount at the club as shown by our aggressive stance over the Glasgow cup final. 1.30pm: Half-time. Half-time entertainment. Rod Stewart and an interview with Snooker ace and Celtic mad John Higgins. We'll be asking who his money is on second half. We'll roll out Chic Charnley too, cause hes a good tim and he'll keep the wee diddy mob happy. 1.45pm: Second half begins. 2.30pm: After Celtic have won, Partick Thistle fans will be held back in the ground for 30 minutes. Trouble makers details taken. 3:30pm: David Beattie is taking the troops down the gallowgate for a few to celebrate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z88 Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Yeah. Beattie' stewardship of this club is nothing short of a disgrace. I mean what's he done during his tenure apart from stave off a Save The Jags 2, bring financial stability, introduce a free entry scheme for u16 s, promotion to the SPFL Premiership, and secure £750k investment for the development of a youth academy? How he now has the cheek to ask people to move seats for one game and charge an extra £5. A shocking performance. Beattie Out! Edited October 9, 2013 by Z88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Yeah. Beattie' stewardship of this club is nothing short of a disgrace. I mean what's he done during his tenure apart from stave off a Save The Jags 2, bring financial stability, introduce a free entry scheme for u16 s, promotion to the SPFL Premiership, and secure £750k investment for the development of a youth academy? How he now has the cheek to ask people to move seats for one game and charge an extra £5. A shocking performance. Beattie Out! ^^^^^^ completely missing the point. Edit to add, kids for free was driven by someone else, nothing to do with David Beattie... check the past accounts, and tell me what director should get a pat on the bum re staving off STJ2... not Beattie. also, he didn't play last season. Edited October 9, 2013 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z88 Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 ^^^^^^ completely missing the point. Edit to add, kids for free was driven by someone else, nothing to do with David Beattie... check the past accounts, and tell me what director should get a pat on the bum re staving off STJ2... not Beattie. also, he didn't play last season. All the more reason for him to stand down in shame for presiding over a monumental list of disaster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 All the more reason for him to stand down in shame for presiding over a monumental list of disaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 The issue with moving the heartbeat of our support is bad enough but moving fans out of the JHS to make way for more of the unwashed is just ridiculous. Why should Celtic get any more than the 2000 tickets we allocate for every other team? Do we actually want to win this game because the BoD are sending out some very bad signals here. Is the potential long term damage to Jags fans relations with the club really worth a few grand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z88 Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 The issue with moving the heartbeat of our support is bad enough but moving fans out of the JHS to make way for more of the unwashed is just ridiculous. Why should Celtic get any more than the 2000 tickets we allocate for every other team? Do we actually want to win this game because the BoD are sending out some very bad signals here. Is the potential long term damage to Jags fans relations with the club really worth a few grand? Maybe the extra cash generated from more away fans might help strengthen the team giving a longer term benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Maybe the extra cash generated from more away fans might help strengthen the team giving a longer term benefit? Do you think the reason thistle fans are being moved to accommodate Celtic fans is purely financial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 The issue with moving the heartbeat of our support is bad enough but moving fans out of the JHS to make way for more of the unwashed is just ridiculous. Why should Celtic get any more than the 2000 tickets we allocate for every other team? Do we actually want to win this game because the BoD are sending out some very bad signals here. Is the potential long term damage to Jags fans relations with the club really worth a few grand? Are you talking for all the fans here,Grant ? There were 600 that signed the petition about the NS way back(me included), but the decision has no impact on whether I will continue to support the club. There has been a lot said about missing revenue opportunities with regards to TAG, DVD's and Centenary fund. Celtic will more than likely sell out their additional allocation. Neither Aberdeen or Hearts did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Are you talking for all the fans here,Grant ? There were 600 that signed the petition about the NS way back(me included), but the decision has no impact on whether I will continue to support the club. There has been a lot said about missing revenue opportunities with regards to TAG, DVD's and Centenary fund. Celtic will more than likely sell out their additional allocation. Neither Aberdeen or Hearts did. How do you come about comparing a divisive way of raising money, with 3 inclusive ways of raising money and keep a straight face? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Do you think the reason thistle fans are being moved to accommodate Celtic fans is purely financial? Of course it is! North Stand should've remained as Thistle though & give them Main Stand & a couple sections of JHS. Ayone who thinks Sellick will actually take up their full allocation? After reading Lenziejag's post I'd add that I don't think the club is being run at all well at the moment. TAG, DVDs, Centenery Fund & North Stand debacle aside- & you can add Europa stewarding & substandard catering to that- we're suffering on the park as the BoD didn't invest in a scouting network for the manager & we're suffering off it as we have no permanent training facility. A supposed Premiership club with all this nonsense? Who's steering this ship off field? Did we ever replace Michelle Evans? An announcement of a youth academy doesn't come close to papering these cracks for me. Edited October 9, 2013 by Bleeding Gums Murphy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z88 Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Of course it is! North Stand should've remained as Thistle though & give them Main Stand & a couple sections of JHS. Ayone who thinks Sellick will actually take up their full allocation? Was the issue with main stand not determined preseason by the police and a safety cert was dependant on the Celtic fans not being accommodated there.? As for the JHS moves then this of course if financially driven, but if the club benefits as a result then is that not a pragmatic decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) I can see where you're coming from but I think you're stretching it a bit. Firstly you're taking everyone paying adult prices. So say of that 7000 there's at least 1000 concessions and 1000 kids I would make that 5000 paying an extra £5 plus 1000 paying an extra £1. That would be down to £26K. Say our support in total in the 9000 crowd is between 3500 and 4000 I would estimate after you take off 2000 ST holders maybe, using the same concession/kid to adult ratio, about 1250 £5 discount vouchers being handed out. That brings it down from £26K to just under £20K. Take off vat and we're talking about £16K-£17K extra. All that based on an anticipated 9000 turnout but if the attendance is lower the stewarding/policing costs remain.the exact same. I happen to believe 9000 may be on the high side just going back to our last league meeting. As Uber points out we're to be charged £25 for a visit to Celtic Pk for what doesn't even reach like for like in value to the North Stand. Thus, imo at least, the moral aspect of us upping the price for Celtic's visit doesn't come into it. I could take Uber's point even further by introducing the likely cost per nut of stewarding us as compared to what we'll be forking out for them but I'm needing a lie down after all that seat of me pants arithmetic. Well the last time we played Sellick in the first cycle of games at Firhill, the crowd was 9045 (August 2003). Admittedly, that was a Saturday and probably not televised, though I can't remember that detail. I think 9000 is not unreasonable, but yes, it could be less. Pay-at-the-gate kids are all paying £5 a head more than they would for a regular game (£5 for ours, £10 for theirs), so you can't exclude them from the calculation. Point taken about concessions and VAT. I will stick with my guess of 7000 non-ST punters for now. Take off VAT at 20% and that still means an extra £25833 less the take-up for the vouchers. The cost of the vouchers is hard to quantify as use for a game in mid-December will likely not be 100% and I'm guessing the Club hopes that it will actually persuade some people to go to that fixture when they otherwise wouldn't have, so to a degree helps recoup the cost. Call it £5K if you like. We are still taking in over £20K extra by this surcharge and will pay nothing like that for extra stewarding and police. And of course, the total gate receipts would be boosted by the bigger crowd anyway. The argument about the prices Celtic charge are irrelevant as far as I am concerned. We don't differentiate for other clubs but St. Johnstone charged £22 for adults and ICT will be charging £21. Should we be charging more for the games when they visit and doling out vouchers for subsequent fixtures? I feel sorry for the North stand guys. They have definitely done a huge amount to improve the atmosphere at Firhill. The Club's communication (or lack of it) with fans over this issue has been appalling. So too the shifting sands around the kids-go-free policy. Why does the club find it difficult to handle this situation? These are problems that need never have arisen. Anyway, tickets on sale tomorrow, so I will try to make time to get over to Firhill. I have visitors from Lancashire that weekend, so a small boost to the gate of 2 adults and 1 child. That will be two adult vouchers for the St. J game unused as I doubt they will be passing through in mid-December! Think I could shift them on e-bay? Edited October 9, 2013 by David Stevenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Was the issue with main stand not determined preseason by the police and a safety cert was dependant on the Celtic fans not being accommodated there.? You tell me. Then once you know for certain, tell us why there is no issue with Aberdeen, hearts and hibs fans using it. The club has a duty of care to all fans, if the police and safety team state there is a risk of fire and death due to flares, then I would hope the club would show the same care to those other three teams fans. They didn't, to me that proves the safety issue being touted is a lot of rubbish. Edited October 9, 2013 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 How do you come about comparing a divisive way of raising money, with 3 inclusive ways of raising money and keep a straight face? I really don't see what is divisive about letting Celtic getting seats in the JHS that the Thistle support wouldn't need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z88 Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 You tell me. Then once you know for certain, tell us why there is no issue with Aberdeen, hearts and hibs fans using it. The club has a duty of care to all fans, if the police and safety team state there is a risk of fire and death due to flares, then I would hope the club would show the same care to those other three teams fans. They didn't, to me that proves the safety issue being touted is a lot of rubbish. The chairman is on record as having said the safety cert issue was raised by the police in relation to Celtic specifically. Hey ho we only have his word for that. It is very annoying that the jags fans are being moved for this one fixture but it's a bigger pity that a banner slating the chair were seen on TV on the same day he had secured a fantastic investment for the clubs future, and given the great strides Forward the club have made under his leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Thanks for the reply Z88 but you haven't even touched on my point regarding other fans. Do you think our club has performed its Duty Of Care when looking after other teams fans, by putting them in the main stand, when the police and safety team have raised concerns over its safety with regard to fans with a history of using flares? Do you think Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs fans should have been in the North Stand? Further, can you tell me the wording of this banner that "slates" David Beattie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I predict that the attendance for this match against the t ims won't reach 8,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Well the last time we played Sellick in the first cycle of games at Firhill, the crowd was 9045 (August 2003). Admittedly, that was a Saturday and probably not televised, though I can't remember that detail. I think 9000 is not unreasonable, but yes, it could be less. Pay-at-the-gate kids are all paying £5 a head more than they would for a regular game (£5 for ours, £10 for theirs), so you can't exclude them from the calculation. Point taken about concessions and VAT. I will stick with my guess of 7000 non-ST punters for now. Take off VAT at 20% and that still means an extra £25833 less the take-up for the vouchers. The cost of the vouchers is hard to quantify as use for a game in mid-December will likely not be 100% and I'm guessing the Club hopes that it will actually persuade some people to go to that fixture when they otherwise wouldn't have, so to a degree helps recoup the cost. Call it £5K if you like. We are still taking in over £20K extra by this surcharge and will pay nothing like that for extra stewarding and police. And of course, the total gate receipts would be boosted by the bigger crowd anyway. The argument about the prices Celtic charge are irrelevant as far as I am concerned. We don't differentiate for other clubs but St. Johnstone charged £22 for adults and ICT will be charging £21. Should we be charging more for the games when they visit and doling out vouchers for subsequent fixtures? I feel sorry for the North stand guys. They have definitely done a huge amount to improve the atmosphere at Firhill. The Club's communication (or lack of it) with fans over this issue has been appalling. So too the shifting sands around the kids-go-free policy. Why does the club find it difficult to handle this situation? These are problems that need never have arisen. Anyway, tickets on sale tomorrow, so I will try to make time to get over to Firhill. I have visitors from Lancashire that weekend, so a small boost to the gate of 2 adults and 1 child. That will be two adult vouchers for the St. J game unused as I doubt they will be passing through in mid-December! Think I could shift them on e-bay? David, I was merely trying to point out that there was more to be taken into account and any profiteering by the Club was substantially less than your first estimate. I don't believe I have a problem with the Club raising the pay at the gate for this and any match against Celtic. I'm not exactly indifferent on the matter but as I say I see where you're coming from and if I'm reading you correct you plainly believe raising the price is wrong in principle. Gotta respect that. This would be better on a thread of its own at another time but I would like to see the ruling that home and away prices must be the same altered. Actually it's my son that's been banging on about it for a while. Basically away fans can't be charged more than the corresponding price their own club charge away fans. So when we travel to McDiarmid or ICT's midden or anywhere we can't be charged more than £20 always assuming that's what we charge our visitors. Edited October 9, 2013 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I predict that the attendance for this match against the t ims won't reach 8,000. What if we pump ICT the previous weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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