Saturday's Handball

[thebiglemon]

Was in the North stand so didn't see it.

 

Just watched highlights.

 

Freeze frame as ball leaves Higgies boot- Goodwins arm straight down, hand between legs. Shoots up to block ball- sickeningly clear cut.

 

And I was slating O'Donnell for being stupid but seeing the 2nd yellow he barely touched the man. I thought he'd shirt pulled at least -very soft feel sorry for SOD now.

[peagreenboy]

Aye, and the referee is looking DIRECTLY AT IT.

 

The ball was heading toward the goal, so a goal scoring opportunity was denied.

 

At best it's a penalty, at worst it's a straight red and a penalty.

 

Whoever that fat duck of a referee was, he should take one look at the video and quit, realising immediately that he cannot do his job.

 

Never mind that cheating number 11, or their 22 who should have had about four yellow cards and I'M CHOKING ON MY OWN RAGE HERE AGAIN

[Willjag]

After play had gone on a bit after the claim, one of our players (think it was Bannigan) was still questioning the ref about the decision and he indicated that Goodwin had his arms at his side. How shockingly wrong he was. He doesn't even have the excuse that his view was obstructed as still frame at moment of impact shows him to have a clear view. He knew the ball hit Goodwins hand by indicating to Bannigan that his hands were by his side when the ball struck him. This being the case, he should find himself demoted to the U20's league at best for the next month or two.

[thebiglemon]

the hand moved to the ball through a 90 degree arc

 

I remember a penalty in the Euros when France got a pen. v. Portugal when the arm moved to the ball about 25 degrees just enough to stop a cross but it was spotted and given. No excuse for the ref. : Goodwins arm was rotating like a windmill.

[thistlenowthistleforever]

Just our luck at the minute

[clarencegarter]

The refs are untouchable. No matter what decisions they make they won't punish them. Look at Thomson who refereed the dundee utd game and missed the tackle in the middle of the park which was a straight red and the tackle in the penalty area which was a red and a penalty. The next game he got was the Edinburgh derby the biggest in the country at the minute.

But it's not Just up here our refs are terrible Just look down south at the two decisions this weekend, the Chelsea penalty and the stoke one. Both horrendous decisions!

[thistlenowthistleforever]

The refs are untouchable. No matter what decisions they make they won't punish them. Look at Thomson who refereed the dundee utd game and missed the tackle in the middle of the park which was a straight red and the tackle in the penalty area which was a red and a penalty. The next game he got was the Edinburgh derby the biggest in the country at the minute.

But it's not Just up here our refs are terrible Just look down south at the two decisions this weekend, the Chelsea penalty and the stoke one. Both horrendous decisions!

 

 

It's shocking that they remain untouchable a law to themselves

[jaggy]

FFS, it turns out this is the same ref that gave a penalty & red card against Jamie Hamill of Hearts when it hit him clearly on the HEAD!!! and he's on the Fifa list as well. Where do they get these clowns?

[Winter of '63]

I often feel a bit of sympathy for defenders where a cross or shot hits them on the arm from close range and a penalty is given against them...and also for a referee who has to make an instant decision through a ruck of players.

 

This wasn't a difficult decision on Saturday though. I was fairly close to the front of the JHS at the City End about level with the 18yard line. It was absolutely clear that the defender was trying to use his body to block the shot with both arms stretched out wide. Goodwin was 15 yards away from Higginbotham - if the ball makes contact with his hand or arm it is the classic definition of a stonewall penalty.

 

The ref was much closer than me - how could he fail to see this? And why aren't referees required to explain key decisions? "I didn't see it clearly and got it wrong" might sometimes be the appropriate response.

 

 

 

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Aye, and the referee is looking DIRECTLY AT IT.

 

The ball was heading toward the goal, so a goal scoring opportunity was denied.

 

At best it's a penalty, at worst it's a straight red and a penalty.

 

Whoever that fat duck of a referee was, he should take one look at the video and quit, realising immediately that he cannot do his job.

 

Never mind that cheating number 11, or their 22 who should have had about four yellow cards and I'M CHOKING ON MY OWN RAGE HERE AGAIN

 

I'm sure there's some medication you can take, peagreenboy, to calm the rage. I'm a large whisky and co codamol person myself. Your justifiable anger re refereeing doesn't quite tally with your initial post in your "just in thread". We can never tell of course but I think it's fair to say that there's a very good chance that the ref's poorest decision on Saturday was pivotal to the end result

[allyo]

The refs are untouchable. No matter what decisions they make they won't punish them. Look at Thomson who refereed the dundee utd game and missed the tackle in the middle of the park which was a straight red and the tackle in the penalty area which was a red and a penalty. The next game he got was the Edinburgh derby the biggest in the country at the minute.

But it's not Just up here our refs are terrible Just look down south at the two decisions this weekend, the Chelsea penalty and the stoke one. Both horrendous decisions!

 

If all the referees are terrible, which seems to be the common view among football people around the world, then I'm not sure that we can punish them too severely, as to do so would leave us with no referees and no game. They make mistakes but they're doing a virtually impossible job that I reckon few of us would want to do, so I'm afraid I'm in the tiny minority that thinks we should give them a break, even when a terrible decision goes against our own team.

 

I get really sick of pundits who contribute little to the game and take a lot out of it, constantly getting stuck into the referees while they sit with their instant slow motion replays and multiple camera angles.

 

Having said all that, I was giving him pelters on Saturday because my angle from the front of the JHS was almost as good as his own.

 

 

 

By the way, who says the Edinburgh derby is the biggest in the country? Rugby town.

Edited November 11, 2013 by allyo

[clarencegarter]

Ever since the refs strike in 2010, which came off the back of an incident which showed the referee plus referees assistant to be lying, they are not going to be punished or even made to explain their decisions.

Yes I understand the refs have sometimes as impossible job to do and we have the benefits of slow motion replays however the penalty incident on Saturday the ref was looking directly at it. No obstructed view or questions about had the ball travelled far enough. He was then seen to show bannigan that Goodwins arms were by his side when in fact even me who was in the north stand could see they were not by his side.

The problem seems to be that if a ref continually gets decisions wrong what is the punishment because from a paying fans point of view it appears there is no punishment.

[Paulo]

It was a shocker of a decision on Saturday, in among a few other shocking decisions. I have no doubt it would have altered the outcome of the game.

 

Problem is, by that point, it should have been irksome at best because we should have been out of sight. Relying on decent referees isn't something that's going to have a bright future.

[Jaggernaut]

And it might as well be said: presumably the linesman saw it too. But they simply take money while trying to keep the lowest possible profile, except when they balls it up totally, as in Inverness.

[Harry Wragg]

When players can be hauled over the coals for sending offs etc. then surely a similar post match enquiry should be held into the spurious decisions of thr referees , then maybe they will buck their ideas up and start watching and playing to the game rather than the crowd !!

[Duck snort]

This season the refereeing seems to be worse everywhere. I've seen result changing incorrect decisions in Scotland, England and especially the Champions League which is worrying as it's supposed to be officiated by the best refs in Europe.

 

In the NFL every play of every game is reviewed the following week and the officials are all rated. At the end of each season the most highly rated get the play off games and the lowest rated are replaced. How I wish there was a similar system in football.

[jaggy]

And it might as well be said: presumably the linesman saw it too. But they simply take money while trying to keep the lowest possible profile, except when they balls it up totally, as in Inverness.

The lino will have been told by the ref before the game that penalty decisions are his alone to make, that's the way they work unless things have changed

[The Sunnylaw Jag]

So disappointed when I saw this thread. I thought it was going to be more about this stuff rather a another avenue of dissecting Saturday's defeat. Maybe Goodwin could try his hand at this?

 

http://www.britishhandball.com/

[JeredStirlingsrightfoot]

What angers me in the aftermath of these types of decisions (Wrong ones) is when players get booked for protesting and then when it transpires the decision was wrong, those bookings aren't overturned? There is no excuse for having a go at the ref but when injustice has been done, could there be a review of the booking?

[BowenBoys]

What angers me in the aftermath of these types of decisions (Wrong ones) is when players get booked for protesting and then when it transpires the decision was wrong, those bookings aren't overturned? There is no excuse for having a go at the ref but when injustice has been done, could there be a review of the booking?

 

The problem is that, as far as I am aware, there has been no admission of a wrong decision by the referee. The authorities haven't and never will publicly criticise a referee. Nothing to see here, move along.

[allyo]

Players shouldn't be allowed to question referees' decisions. They should accept them, that's the game.

 

And to suggest that a referee's mistake is equivalent to a sending off, and should be punished similarly, is ridiculous. A referee's mistake is equivalent to a striker missing a chance or a defender losing his man. It's a misjudgement, a moment of failure. It may be worthy of criticism, but not disciplinary action.

[jaggy]

Players shouldn't be allowed to question referees' decisions. They should accept them, that's the game.

 

And to suggest that a referee's mistake is equivalent to a sending off, and should be punished similarly, is ridiculous. A referee's mistake is equivalent to a striker missing a chance or a defender losing his man. It's a misjudgement, a moment of failure. It may be worthy of criticism, but not disciplinary action.

Disagree, if a player isn't good enough he is dropped by his club or possibly transferred out. If a ref or assistant isn't good enough they should drop down the leagues (I don't mean for a single decision). Beaton is supposedly good enough for the FIFA list yet chose to ignore (or somehow didn't see) a blatantant handball on Saturday. He also sent off & gave a penalty against a Hearts player earlier in the season when the ball clearly struck his head. These were clear cut incidents he got wrong and he should be marked down on them

[allyo]

Disagree, if a player isn't good enough he is dropped by his club or possibly transferred out. If a ref or assistant isn't good enough they should drop down the leagues (I don't mean for a single decision). Beaton is supposedly good enough for the FIFA list yet chose to ignore (or somehow didn't see) a blatantant handball on Saturday. He also sent off & gave a penalty against a Hearts player earlier in the season when the ball clearly struck his head. These were clear cut incidents he got wrong and he should be marked down on them

 

Fair enough, don't really disagree with that. Consequences though, rather than punishments. Maybe I'm being pedantic.

 

I do think the fact that being a top level football player is a very attractive proposition to most of us, and being a top level referee is not, is significant. If there isn't the same pool there won't be the same level of talent. And the constant trial by TV experts, and whinging managers and fans, doesn't help that situation.

[Metzmagic]

Here we go, making up statements that if said often enough then become true.

 

"chose to ignore (or somehow didn't see) a blatantant handball on Saturday."

 

Clearly he did see it and did not ignore it. He saw the hand ball but ruled it was ball to hand and not deliberate hand ball hence play on. He reiterated this with the action he made to Bannigan when he was protesting. But easily the worst refereeing performance this season.

[jaggy]

Here we go, making up statements that if said often enough then become true.

 

"chose to ignore (or somehow didn't see) a blatantant handball on Saturday."

 

Clearly he did see it and did not ignore it. He saw the hand ball but ruled it was ball to hand and not deliberate hand ball hence play on. He reiterated this with the action he made to Bannigan when he was protesting. But easily the worst refereeing performance this season.

what's made up about it? He saw a handball & never gave a penalty, so he chose to ignore it. Fact. He indicated to Bannigan the arm was at his side which it clearly wasn't. I'm not making anything up