yoda-jag Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I think from this thread and many others there is a section of our support who have made their mind up before a ball gets kicked. Craigan, for starters, was outstanding yesterday, a couple of slack passes late in the second, yes, but claims like he can't pass or tackle or gets in Banzo's way are quite frankly blinkered nonsense. His first half performance was instrumental in how we played. I don't know how anyone can claim they weren't talking to each other either. Mair and Gallagher spent the whole game shouting at those around them, telling them to step out, cover certain players. Gallagher was going crazy trying to push the team forward in the second half. Let's not forget, up until the 89th minute the team had kept a clean sheet, that's with a new signing and the reserve keeper at the back. The difference Mair made to balatoni was plain to see, he talked balatoni through the whole game, and I was a lot more confident in balatoni as a whole. Folk can sit from their seat and create an opinion all they like, but no one knows what Archie sees in training and what he asks players to do. He starts craigan every week, that to me says craigan is doing exactly what he's told to. If we had scored a second or defended the rebound, folk would have been lording that performance. Especially at the back. Regarding subs, whilst I agree Taylor should have come off, Fraser was injured not tired, he took a knock in a 50/50 and signalled to the bench twice he had to come off. No one said it'd be easy, there have been a few signings that have failed, but if we aren't good enough, then so be it, there are places we need to learn to be cuter. Time wasting, breaking up play taking a break to catch our breath. All things we as fans boo, but these are elements we need to do to start winning games. Win or draw, I'd pay 20 quid to watch that first 45 alone. We're just not cute or intelligent enough to see these games out yet. But that's the sort of thing we can teach. The only changes I'd make are muirhead for banzo and McMillan for Sinclair... Depending on fitness, maybe give Doolan the first 55 minutes on Tuesday night. ^^^and most of this The first half was football porn at times orgasmic It does seem that this season, unlike the last season, a number of players are running out of steam before the 90 minutes are up. Has there been a change in the fitness and diet regime? higher league, up against bigger and stronger and fitter players, week in week out, think it is more a case of us having to up our fitness even more, as opposed to a (detrimental) change in these regimes you speak of or infer. added to that there is a vastly different mental fitness and toughness that most of our players have never been up against, with so many of them top league virgins until this season. the mental toughness and unity they had last season was a major factor in our winning the league (and thanks in so small part to that of archie and shaggy doing what the judas snake had been failing to do with away games, etc). it's an entirely different level again of mental and physical fitness, and that takes time to achieve, impossible to change overnight. no matter who is the manager either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I know Yoda, I honestly think we have so called supporters on here that would have a go at Archie and demand his sacking if he missed out on European football by one point this season. Our target this season is to stay in the league. If that is via the play offs, so be it! Might be in the minority but I have loved this season, we have played some great football, got some players in that we could only dream about 3 or 4 years ago and with a bit more luck, should be sitting in 6th or 7th just now. We are punching above our weight and its time some people realised this thing is lindau, theres partick thistle supporters, and then theres partick fickle fan-y fairweather types of sorts. agree with your view of this season so far and outlook and aim for rest of this season. if we stay up, next season should see us getting the results our play deserves, once all wiser and fitter mentally and physically. even then can see some brainvoids saying if archie doesn't have us top two by end of next season he should be replaced by someone like john or billy brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 eta: re subs yesterday, and perceived "lateness" and "incorrectness" of them ..... i couldn't help feeling at time, and now almost 24 hours later am even more convinced archie had one (or two) eyes on tuesday and next saturdays games ..... examples could include where dools would likely start one of them, plus knowing banzo out for st j game ..... and thus thinking at 1-0 if we could see it out without risking players he was thinking of rotating and starting next two games ..... he'll learn from this, as i am sure he and players have learned every game so far this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 And let's face it, a two-legged play-off, in front of packed crowds and electric atmospheres, could be great fun. (So long as we win, obviously) and bring in a significant income as well particularly say we draw someone like Falkirk Also I seem to recall the last playoff we were involved in was released on DVD - the Peterhead game. I'm sure if we were to be in a playoff and win the club will be quick to release a similar DVD and bring in yet more income. But All is irrelevant given there is still a good 23 points to play for in the league yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Still so disappointed with yesterdays result, but before I have my two cents on the game, I would like to say that this Forum is for all opinions regarding Thistle, and the pretentious moral highground rubbish that some folk have on here just because they support the management or not is getting tiresome. Just because you believe that Archie should stay and anyone calling for his departure is an idiot etc. does not make you a better or worse supporter than them. For the first half I felt we played as well as the first few games this season. I don't know if that was because Fraser was back in the team, but we zipped the ball around really well, and closed down quickly and effectively. The pressure we put on their shaky defence ensured they were limited to any chances in that first half, and that should have been the way we played in the second half. But just as last week, during the 2nd, we sat too deep and invited pressure. I don't know if this was Archie's plan or the players simply starting to get nervous. But what I do know is we threw everything that worked in the first half out of the window. The game was quick and frantic, and was calling out for Forbes to come in and slow it right down. But unfortunately when you bring Muirhead on with 25mins to go, you send the message that you are trying to close the game out. What team, when only a goal up at home tries to close the game out with 25mins to go!? The equaliser was inevitable, and if we hadn't conceded the penalty, I am confident they would have scored within the last few seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 there is still a good 23 points to play for in the league yet Eh? Don't we have 16 games to go? I make that 48 to go for.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) I think something has to be said which no doubt younger fans will find hard to believe. This season is a good season for us. Sure while you're at the game you might feel like tearing your hair out (still got a wee bit left but will be starting on the beard soon) but what has to be remembered is we are in the top league and holding our own against most of the sides in it and at the same time playing some pretty good football. We have spent a lot of time in recent decades languishing in the lower divisions, sometimes suffering really dire football as well as results. Now we are enjoying one of our rare spells at the top and we ought to be ... well enjoying it, as much as we can. I remember the last time we got relegated from this league - anyone who saw that season will remember how dire that was. If we do go down this season we will have seen at least a team that showed fight and played some really good football. Remember too the financial problems we've had and which we're not completely out of yet (small though they are compared to certain other clubs). The present board have made an attempt to run things more sensibly than in the past and part of that entails taking a risk with a young management team and a now still relatively young team - and in putting faith in a properly developed youth policy. Things are going in the right direction but a club like us can't expect to succeed without taking (a lot of ) rough with the smooth. Hopefully our young management team will manage to keep us up and go on to establish us in the top league but if they don't they don't deserve anything except our thanks for giving us a great promotion season, a battling attempt to stay up and a team that played some of the best football we've seen in many seasons. Edited January 19, 2014 by Mr Bunny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 To get a bit of perspective, I looked back on our top Division seasons from the Lambie (and Collins/ Whyte-Britton) era. After 22 games we had amassed the (equivalent) points in the following seasons; 92/93 26pts 93/94 24pts 94/95 19pts * 95/96 20pts * 02/03 22pts 03/04 9pts We've currently got 20pts and I am sure most people think we should have accumulated more. We are not too far off the mark attained by far more experienced squads and management teams, as good as a couple of other seasons and a whole lot better off than the 03/04 disaster. The new guys Archie has signed all seem to be doing a turn, and though errors are still happening, we're not getting pumped. Archie is doing a good job on the whole. Changing manager is completely unwarranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Piccolo should be starting ahead of Balatoni everyday of the week for me. Yes he is prone to the odd stupid error but he is learning all the time. Plus he probably wins 95% of the headers he goes for whereas Balatoni wins about 10% if he hasn't bumped into the other centre half or headed thin air whilst attempting it. I assume you weren't at the game yesterday? Conrad won plenty of headers yesterday. Yes, he screwed up at the death but he was solid up until then, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 when you bring Muirhead on with 25mins to go, you send the message that you are trying to close the game out. What team, when only a goal up at home tries to close the game out with 25mins to go!? I am not sure that this is an entirely fair comment regarding Muirhead coming on. Sure, he is a defender, but the last 2 games he has played this midfield position - games in which we have scored 5 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 [Original comment: It does seem that this season, unlike the last season, a number of players are running out of steam before the 90 minutes are up. Has there been a change in the fitness and diet regime?] ...higher league, up against bigger and stronger and fitter players, week in week out, think it is more a case of us having to up our fitness even more, as opposed to a (detrimental) change in these regimes you speak of or infer. added to that there is a vastly different mental fitness and toughness that most of our players have never been up against, with so many of them top league virgins until this season. the mental toughness and unity they had last season was a major factor in our winning the league (and thanks in so small part to that of archie and shaggy doing what the judas snake had been failing to do with away games, etc). it's an entirely different level again of mental and physical fitness, and that takes time to achieve, impossible to change overnight. no matter who is the manager either. I'm not convinced by this argument, Yoda: firstly, it's still a 90-minute period, and any additional running required can't be so very much greater within the same time limit, and secondly, I'm suggesting that the "mental fitness and toughness" isn't a cause but perhaps the result of some change in the purely physical side of preparations, viz. the eating and the exercise. Of course, it may not be, although comments have been made about at least one player's apparent beefiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Thats the highlights on BBC - we really should of won looking back on it. Their boy for the penalty goes down easily but it was still a penalty (not sure about a red card though, the rules changed so penalties dont always have to go with red cards). No real clear cut chances for us but still showed the passing moves that we used to do last year. Taylor and Balatoni needed to do better with the follow on from the penalty - especially Balatoni who didnt even attempt. Plus its been widely said that Taylor shouldnt of even been on the park then after all the work he had done. However, if Fox had been in goal, I'm pretty sure that guys effort 5 mins from time would of definitely gone in - carbon copy of half the goals we've conceded this season. Kilmarnocks centre halfs have won them that game, keeping our attacks away from goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I assume you weren't at the game yesterday? Conrad won plenty of headers yesterday. Yes, he screwed up at the death but he was solid up until then, imo. I was at the game. Perhaps I should have phrased my point better, what I'm trying to get at is when both him and the opposition player attack the ball he doesn't win the header regularly enough. Imo Piccolo wins far more battles in the air against the opposition striker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I have skimmed the last page or 2 of the thread and there are some very good posts. Usually happens after a cooling down period - goodness knows I needed a moment after that finish. In the first half on Saturday, I was loving it. We were moving the ball faster, pressing high up the pitch and they couldn't live with us at all. How many times did they just lump the ball into a corner with nobody chasing? Simply because we applied pressure. I realise that we won't get the chance to do that for 90 mins, but was a bit disappointed with us dropping so deep again in the 2nd half, for the 2nd week in a row. Would have been a great confidence boost to close that one out though. I think the big difference from the start on Saturday was the mobility in the midfield. Bannigan was outstanding, Craigen was freed up to chase every ball like he does time and again. Fraser took up a good position, blocking in the centre whilst always looking for the ball. Thought he looked a little too keen to impress at times and maybe picked the wrong option, but he showed that he was well worth selecting and could grow into a very important player for us. I really liked the pairing with Bannigan in there. Gallacher - Can't drop this guy. Apart from a couple of great stops, he was shouting and organising for 90 mins. A real difference. SOD - Tried and tried, made some excellent runs in the first half and was unlucky not to get a couple of efforts on target. A bit erratic in the 2nd. ATS - I thought he was having a great game. The tackle near the end (when he went down injured) stopped a sure goalscoring chance. Looked dangerous going forward and had no choice with the pen incident. Mair - Looked good in the air, if a little slow on the deck. Few games under his belt will help, but another who was shouting and organising all day. What we need back there. Bannigan - Deserved his sponsor's MOM award. Composed, sharp in the tackle and always available for a pass. Looked the player we know he can be. Fraser - Although I feel he lacked a little sharpness and tried a little too hard for the big pass at times, he showed enough. Looks very tactically aware for his years. Higginbotham - Every time he got on the ball, he looked dangerous. Even Johnston said they changed tactics to nullify him - and they couldn't. Taylor - The boy got ZERO from the ref all game. It was outrageous. That said, the tactics from the Killie defence were shocking, but they kinda worked and put him off his game a bit. Never stopped trying though. Still think there's more to come when he's fully match fit. Yes, I left out Lawless. Since it's humble pie time. He didn't have a great 2nd half, but hardly anyone did. In the first, he chased every ball, was putting a foot in and fighting, and looked much more comfortable in the midfield 3 with himself, Higgy and Craigen. They were all over the park in the first half and Killie couldn't deal with their movement. That's what I was asking for last week, and that's what we got. Bottom line, we need the mental strength to stick to our gameplan all the way through. We will be pressurised at times, but we showed that when we apply the pressure, these teams struggle for ideas. Allowing them into positions where they can get the ball into the box just asks questions of our defence. Bring on tomorrow night, let's start like that again and see the guys determined to put this right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I was at the game. Perhaps I should have phrased my point better, what I'm trying to get at is when both him and the opposition player attack the ball he doesn't win the header regularly enough. Imo Piccolo wins far more battles in the air against the opposition striker That's fair comment. Gabriel's clearing headers have been better than Conrad's of late. I'm not sure that on its own that's enough to play him left centre back ahead of Balatoni. I'm assuming that Mair will favour, with admittedly no knowledge whatsover, the right centreback slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 [Original comment: It does seem that this season, unlike the last season, a number of players are running out of steam before the 90 minutes are up. Has there been a change in the fitness and diet regime?] higher league, up against bigger and stronger and fitter players, week in week out, think it is more a case of us having to up our fitness even more, as opposed to a (detrimental) change in these regimes you speak of or infer. added to that there is a vastly different mental fitness and toughness that most of our players have never been up against, with so many of them top league virgins until this season. the mental toughness and unity they had last season was a major factor in our winning the league (and thanks in so small part to that of archie and shaggy doing what the judas snake had been failing to do with away games, etc). it's an entirely different level again of mental and physical fitness, and that takes time to achieve, impossible to change overnight. no matter who is the manager either. I'm not convinced by this argument, Yoda: firstly, it's still a 90-minute period, and any additional running required can't be so very much greater within the same time limit, and secondly, I'm suggesting that the "mental fitness and toughness" isn't a cause but perhaps the result of some change in the purely physical side of preparations, viz. the eating and the exercise. Of course, it may not be, although comments have been made about at least one player's apparent beefiness. while i don't have the stats, i would be willing to wager that our players on average, cover a fair amount more distance per game in this league than they did last season .... add in they are up against tougher players, where challenges, holding others off the ball is more physical and energy sapping than last seasons opponents ..... and while last season we were dictating play more against, on the whole, weaker sides, this season we are not enjoying the same domination (and thus choice of how games are played). yes its still the same 90 minutes duration, yes we are still dictating a lot of the play and possession this season (usually all us first half, then dropping off and struggling second half), but i believe the physical and fitness aspects of this league compared to last season is significant. whether there has been a change in the eating and excerise side of preparations, to a detrimental or backwards step, or even a failure to improve these physical aspects to compensate with higher league demands, we can only speculate. but i do maintain the mental fitness and toughness of this league is markedly different from that which is required in the (old) first division. I think something has to be said which no doubt younger fans will find hard to believe. This season is a good season for us. Sure while you're at the game you might feel like tearing your hair out (still got a wee bit left but will be starting on the beard soon) but what has to be remembered is we are in the top league and holding our own against most of the sides in it and at the same time playing some pretty good football. We have spent a lot of time in recent decades languishing in the lower divisions, sometimes suffering really dire football as well as results. Now we are enjoying one of our rare spells at the top and we ought to be ... well enjoying it, as much as we can. I remember the last time we got relegated from this league - anyone who saw that season will remember how dire that was. If we do go down this season we will have seen at least a team that showed fight and played some really good football. Remember too the financial problems we've had and which we're not completely out of yet (small though they are compared to certain other clubs). The present board have made an attempt to run things more sensibly than in the past and part of that entails taking a risk with a young management team and a now still relatively young team - and in putting faith in a properly developed youth policy. Things are going in the right direction but a club like us can't expect to succeed without taking (a lot of ) rough with the smooth. Hopefully our young management team will manage to keep us up and go on to establish us in the top league but if they don't they don't deserve anything except our thanks for giving us a great promotion season, a battling attempt to stay up and a team that played some of the best football we've seen in many seasons. excellent post mr b, agree with it all i do I have skimmed the last page or 2 of the thread and there are some very good posts. Usually happens after a cooling down period - goodness knows I needed a moment after that finish. In the first half on Saturday, I was loving it. We were moving the ball faster, pressing high up the pitch and they couldn't live with us at all. How many times did they just lump the ball into a corner with nobody chasing? Simply because we applied pressure. I realise that we won't get the chance to do that for 90 mins, but was a bit disappointed with us dropping so deep again in the 2nd half, for the 2nd week in a row. Would have been a great confidence boost to close that one out though. I think the big difference from the start on Saturday was the mobility in the midfield. Bannigan was outstanding, Craigen was freed up to chase every ball like he does time and again. Fraser took up a good position, blocking in the centre whilst always looking for the ball. Thought he looked a little too keen to impress at times and maybe picked the wrong option, but he showed that he was well worth selecting and could grow into a very important player for us. I really liked the pairing with Bannigan in there. Gallacher - Can't drop this guy. Apart from a couple of great stops, he was shouting and organising for 90 mins. A real difference. SOD - Tried and tried, made some excellent runs in the first half and was unlucky not to get a couple of efforts on target. A bit erratic in the 2nd. ATS - I thought he was having a great game. The tackle near the end (when he went down injured) stopped a sure goalscoring chance. Looked dangerous going forward and had no choice with the pen incident. Mair - Looked good in the air, if a little slow on the deck. Few games under his belt will help, but another who was shouting and organising all day. What we need back there. Bannigan - Deserved his sponsor's MOM award. Composed, sharp in the tackle and always available for a pass. Looked the player we know he can be. Fraser - Although I feel he lacked a little sharpness and tried a little too hard for the big pass at times, he showed enough. Looks very tactically aware for his years. Higginbotham - Every time he got on the ball, he looked dangerous. Even Johnston said they changed tactics to nullify him - and they couldn't. Taylor - The boy got ZERO from the ref all game. It was outrageous. That said, the tactics from the Killie defence were shocking, but they kinda worked and put him off his game a bit. Never stopped trying though. Still think there's more to come when he's fully match fit. Yes, I left out Lawless. Since it's humble pie time. He didn't have a great 2nd half, but hardly anyone did. In the first, he chased every ball, was putting a foot in and fighting, and looked much more comfortable in the midfield 3 with himself, Higgy and Craigen. They were all over the park in the first half and Killie couldn't deal with their movement. That's what I was asking for last week, and that's what we got. Bottom line, we need the mental strength to stick to our gameplan all the way through. We will be pressurised at times, but we showed that when we apply the pressure, these teams struggle for ideas. Allowing them into positions where they can get the ball into the box just asks questions of our defence. Bring on tomorrow night, let's start like that again and see the guys determined to put this right. can't disagree with any of that really. the emboldened parts in particular. good relective overview of saturday paulo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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