stuartaytonspeaksfrench Posted May 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Thanks for the summary PTD. Regarding the above, was there any indication that the new federation structure mentioned as part of Tag will be implemented, or have they ditched this in favour of using the groups that were represented at last night's meeting? It wasn't. TAG wasn't mentioned as we were sticking to winning the North Stand battle. Per the meeting in February TAG will be launched when the time is right (thinking out loud this could even be this week) and I would imagine that the Federation structure will work. The groups represented last night represented a good cross selection of the support, but with a Federation structure we can get even more coverage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartaytonspeaksfrench Posted May 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Great outcome. We all relaxed when David Beattie said straight up that the Board were putting their hands up. I actually thought he came across pretty well - as we have always said the Board need to get better at communication and the quarterly forum for doing this is a step forward. Great news on stewarding and catering. Sensational news about North Stand. Not sure what to make of the u16s policy, although I felt the way Maxi explained it was reasonable I understand that some wont agree. Look forward to hearing more next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewarty Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 It wasn't. TAG wasn't mentioned as we were sticking to winning the North Stand battle. Per the meeting in February TAG will be launched when the time is right (thinking out loud this could even be this week) and I would imagine that the Federation structure will work. The groups represented last night represented a good cross selection of the support, but with a Federation structure we can get even more coverage. Agreed. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 From twitter RE the under 16s change "£5 walk up. Free season ticket if sit in a specific section. £50 if you want to sit with your dad. Its due to abuse of walk up Under 16s. Will be reviewed following negative feedback tonight." If this is what is proposed for Under 16's next season then it's good news. I was surprised last season that U16 season tickets weren't in a specific section. Let us not underestimate this initiative. My two kids have their very own season ticket, which they think is great, and they really feel part of the club. Surely the next step is to ensure that the next generation of Jags fans get more healthy food and drink options. How about selling water alongside fizzy drinks. Perhaps the club could find a Scottish supplier of water. They might even be persuaded to sponsor our kit. Oh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm62 Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 A very simple way to stop the abuse of the under 16 scheme is to ask kids to produce their 'young Scot' cards. As far as I know,every secondary school pupil in the country is issued with one. They are a form of photo ID and show the holder's date of birth. This would allow us to continue to offer free entry to occasional/'walk up' fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 I got my daughter a season ticket beside me and she only came to one game. I can understand the club's position. Hopefully they can maintain the principle of kids for free for people who really benefit, because I think it's a brilliant initiative. But I don't think the likes of myself could have too many complaints at having to pay a small price for the odd game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 A very simple way to stop the abuse of the under 16 scheme is to ask kids to produce their 'young Scot' cards. As far as I know,every secondary school pupil in the country is issued with one. They are a form of photo ID and show the holder's date of birth. This would allow us to continue to offer free entry to occasional/'walk up' fans. Would be interesting to see the figures on this. How many occasional/walk up U16 fans are there? Most could surely get a free season ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 I know a few adults who used their kids free season ticket to gain entry to some games, particularly the Celtic games. It's far too easy to abuse due to the automated gates. Not good at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 If you do that you really can't call yourself a supporter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) I know a few adults who used their kids free season ticket to gain entry to some games, particularly the Celtic games. It's far too easy to abuse due to the automated gates. Not good at all If stewards were randomly placed behind turnstiles it would deter folk. The lights show amber if a concession ticket is being used. Edited May 17, 2014 by H Wragg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) I see you are still with the personal insults Ian. My point was a very simple one. If you focus on one group of supporters-without looking at the whole picture-you run the risk of winning one battle and losing overall. As one of the NS boys said earlier in thread, their focus in the meeting was on the NS and nothing else. So congratulations to the North Stand boys, but as a result of the meeting, we now have a larger part of the season ticket support being asked to pay an extra 30-50 quid next season. If they don't pay, THEY are being moved seats. When the NS issue was raised, the fans were clamouring to ask the club to prove the numbers behind the suggested move. Did anyone ask Mr Beattie to justify the alleged abuse of Kids' tickets? ? ANY of the following questions? -To what level is it being abused? How many tickets? Over how many games? -The system is computerised, if it is being abused, surely it's easy to find out by whom? -If not, why not? -Re kids seats and Celtic games. My son won't be going to any Celtic games. I'm happy for his seat to be used for that match. Why hasn't the club asked parents like me to take this approach? -Re the 30/50 quid charge. This means in practice that the abuse will continue. You can now get a season ticket for 30 quid, rather than for free. It doesn't solve the problem. What's more worrying is the way the club's story re abuse of tickets has been casually accepted. Not only that, the over-arching principle of "Kids for Free" has been eroded. Already we are negotiating on a price for something that was free last season. "Fifty quid is too expensive, how about thirty or twenty?" This whole North Stand thing was supposed to be about consultation and solidarity. So where's the consultation with parents/families? Where's the solidarity with those of us who are now being asked to pay more or move seats? This will have a real effect on parents who take one, two or three kids. As i pointed out, i've sat in the same area of the JH stand with the same people since it was built. My son knows most of the people around us. Now our "matchday experience" is now under threat. Can i assume that the threat of boycott is still in place? Now that we have a group of fans who are being asked to pay more or face being moved against their wishes? Edited May 17, 2014 by La Scimmia Rossa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Colin, the issue of U16s was only raised at the very end of the meeting by Ian Maxwell. But, due to negative feedback from a lot of people in the room it was agreed to reconsider this proposal. Back when we started the kids for free initiative I distinctly remember you being one of the people who criticised it. Edited May 17, 2014 by ian_mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Ian, Dave and the other reps who attended the meeting; well done for ensuring some common sense prevailed. Really pleased the North Stand remains red & yellow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 I see you are still with the personal insults Ian. My point was a very simple one. If you focus on one group of supporters-without looking at the whole picture-you run the risk of winning one battle and losing overall. As one of the NS boys said earlier in thread, their focus in the meeting was on the NS and nothing else. So congratulations to the North Stand boys, but as a result of the meeting, we now have a larger part of the season ticket support being asked to pay an extra 30-50 quid next season. If they don't pay, THEY are being moved seats. When the NS issue was raised, the fans were clamouring to ask the club to prove the numbers behind the suggested move. Did anyone ask Mr Beattie to justify the alleged abuse of Kids' tickets? ? ANY of the following questions? -To what level is it being abused? How many tickets? Over how many games? -The system is computerised, if it is being abused, surely it's easy to find out by whom? -If not, why not? -Re kids seats and Celtic games. My son won't be going to any Celtic games. I'm happy for his seat to be used for that match. Why hasn't the club asked parents like me to take this approach? -Re the 30/50 quid charge. This means in practice that the abuse will continue. You can now get a season ticket for 30 quid, rather than for free. It doesn't solve the problem. What's more worrying is the way the club's story re abuse of tickets has been casually accepted. Not only that, the over-arching principle of "Kids for Free" has been eroded. Already we are negotiating on a price for something that was free last season. "Fifty quid is too expensive, how about thirty or twenty?" This whole North Stand thing was supposed to be about consultation and solidarity. So where's the consultation with parents/families? Where's the solidarity with those of us who are now being asked to pay more or move seats? This will have a real effect on parents who take one, two or three kids. As i pointed out, i've sat in the same area of the JH stand with the same people since it was built. My son knows most of the people around us. Now our "matchday experience" is now under threat. Can i assume that the threat of boycott is still in place? Now that we have a group of fans who are being asked to pay more or face being moved against their wishes? From someone who was initially on support of the NS fans staying where they were, I wholeheartedly agree with your points. I wonder if the NS fans & Federation reps will be on the side of parents like myself who may now be asked to move seats or have to pay extra? Is it a one for all mentality or is it a case of "I'm alright"? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 From someone who was initially on support of the NS fans staying where they were, I wholeheartedly agree with your points. I wonder if the NS fans & Federation reps will be on the side of parents like myself who may now be asked to move seats or have to pay extra? Is it a one for all mentality or is it a case of "I'm alright"? Thoughts? Absolutely not. I think you will find that the north stand reps were some of many who raised concerns at the proposed new arrangements regarding U16s. Hence the reason why the club have agreed to look at this again. Your accusations therefore are totally unfounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Hi Ian. I was against the demolition of the shed too. Time moves on though. My concern with kids go free was the absence of any data being captured used to make future decisions. That seems to be a key point here. So let's focus on the issue rather than wee sly digs. Can you answer my question? Were any of the questions listed above asked of the club? Were the NS reps reluctantant because of price being suggested? Or because of the fundamental point? What counter proposals were put forward? It seems this is being discussed at a board meeting on Monday with the main issue being price? As opposed to further consultation? Or have i got that wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewarty Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Again, there's a flawed logic to the Board's solution to this issue. £50 is still cheap enough to make abuse of the system worthwhile. However, charging more would go against the spirit of the initiative. It is clear then that it is not a change of pricing that it required but one of regulation. Some potential solutions have been explored above. Surely the turnstile can be set so that the use of a child's season ticket requires the approval of an attendant? And as sm62 suggested the 'Young Scot' card can be required of 'walk up' fans. Then there is the issue of kids who don't use the tickets and are therefore taking up seats. Again, given that the system is computerised, surely attendance monitoring is possible. Perhaps the ticket should be revoked if it isn't used at least once every 5 games? PS. This is not a criticism of those who attended the meeting as they were in a sense ambushed and had to think on their feet. Edited May 17, 2014 by Stewarty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Absolutely not. I think you will find that the north stand reps were some of many who raised concerns at the proposed new arrangements regarding U16s. Hence the reason why the club have agreed to look at this again. Your accusations therefore are totally unfounded. Look again as in charging £20-30 instead of £50 for my children to sit next to me? Look again as in scrap the fee? If it's being abused then they must be aware of the where & when? Was any evidence asked to support how they do know? As if they know they must be able to deal with if appropriately instead of moving the vast majority (I'm sure) who use it as it should be used & don't take advantage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 I can't really answer your questions trotter. All I can do us refute your original accusation that our stance on the matter was "I'm alright". Remember that this was in effect an emergency meeting, and the subject of the meeting was the north stand, nothing else. The issue of under 16s was raised pretty much as everyone was getting ready to leave. Therefore we had very little time to discuss it. My hope is that there will be further consultation given the feedback that was given in the limited time available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) I can't really answer your questions trotter. All I can do us refute your original accusation that our stance on the matter was "I'm alright". Remember that this was in effect an emergency meeting, and the subject of the meeting was the north stand, nothing else. The issue of under 16s was raised pretty much as everyone was getting ready to leave. Therefore we had very little time to discuss it. My hope is that there will be further consultation given the feedback that was given in the limited time available. I didn't say your stance was "I'm alright". I asked the question that if there was a charge (any charge) for myself, & others with kids, to sit on seats that have been sat on for countless years, would the federation support us? I'm towards the City end to the left of halfway line & like the seats I have, as like the the other poster said, have friends without children & folk I've sat next to for years. I don't want to be moved but nor do I think I have to pay due to other folk abusing the system. Edited May 17, 2014 by Trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Well done everyone for getting everything resolved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 17, 2014 Members Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Surely the easy answer to the U16 problem would be, if the U16 ST is acquired at the same time as an adult paying for his seat, they U16 ticket can be reserved next to their parent or guardian? If not, then it's assigned to the kids section. As someone else mentioned earlier on, I too remember there used to be a charge for the kids seat if you wanted to reserve it. Has this been done away with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAISLEY-JAG Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 For anyone who was there last night, any mention of season tickets? e.g. prices and launch date. Would be good to move forward from this and keep with the positive vibe by showing our backing and snapping up tickets soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 17, 2014 Members Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Meant to say, thanks Andrew for the Twitter updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Again, there's a flawed logic to the Board's solution to this issue. £50 is still cheap enough to make abuse of the system worthwhile. However, charging more would go against the spirit of the initiative. It is clear then that it is not a change of pricing that it required but one of regulation. Some potential solutions have been explored above. Surely the turnstile can be set so that the use of a child's season ticket requires the approval of an attendant? And as sm62 suggested the 'Young Scot' card can be required of 'walk up' fans. Then there is the issue of kids who don't use the tickets and are therefore taking up seats. Again, given that the system is computerised, surely attendance monitoring is possible. Perhaps the ticket should be revoked if it isn't used at least once every 5 games? PS. This is not a criticism of those who attended the meeting as they were in a sense ambushed and had to think on their feet. ^^all of this to add: kids go free (for home fans only) should continue. kids go free (for away fans) should be implemented for any visiting teams who offer ptfc under 16's the same consideration. i'd be proud of my club if they were to be the proactive ones in this issue, opening talks with other clubs and attempting to persuade them to offer such reciprocal arrangements. the reps being "ambushed" last night with this, right at end of meeting is a throwback to last saturdays debacle. why does the club operate in this way? its not the first time, and fear it won't be the last ..... all the more reason for supporters reps having regular meetings with board reps, to be constantly appraised and advised of any material (monetary or matchday experience) changes the board is considering, so that proper consultation and canvassing of the wider support base can be carried out, and avoid instances and upset like the past week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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