javeajag Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 My wife is expecting our first kid, we have saved money for a deposit to buy our first home and I work in technology specialising in financial organisations. Unless it's a No where we have the financial and economic strength and security of the UK keeping the pound and stability enhanced with a Scottish Parliament strengthened by tax raising powers so politicians are accountable I see future prospects far lower for the country and bleak for my family. The Yes campaign has been powerful but with little substance and lots of soundbites promising all things to all men (and women). Nobel laureate economists, independent reporters and hundreds of business organisations all say Scotland will be worse off. Not to say the years of unwinding a countries institutions and squabbling over who gets what with rUK, I'm just so bored of it all. I'm sorry I understand your concerns but some of your facts are wrong eg there are 2 Nobel prize winning economists on the Scottish Govts fiscal commission , the worlds pre eminent economist Joseph Stigkitz is one of those - read his article in the Sunday papers. There is no guarantee we will get any new powers and if we leave the EU what happens then? Financial organisations moved thousands if jobs to India , Philipines etc eh foreign countries they will leave jobs in Scotland because it's economic to do so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 ^^^ The above is a depressing Yes tactic trying to minimise the legitimacy of an elected Parliament (and yet they always ignore power of EU. London = bad. Brussels = good). For the additional powers they will be debated on Friday 19th September in Westminster the day after the referendum. Command paper on 30th October. White Paper on 30 November. Legislation on 20th January. 2nd reading 7th May after General Election. http://www.bettertog...-with-a-no-vote That's if they get voted through. What if MPs vote against these powers? With a yes vote we are going to get all the additional powers and it will be us voting for them not waiting to see if Westminster will agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 ^^^ The above is a depressing Yes tactic trying to minimise the legitimacy of an elected Parliament (and yet they always ignore power of EU. London = bad. Brussels = good). For the additional powers they will be debated on Friday 19th September in Westminster the day after the referendum. Command paper on 30th October. White Paper on 30 November. Legislation on 20th January. 2nd reading 7th May after General Election. http://www.bettertogether.net/blog/entry/change-is-coming-to-scotland-with-a-no-vote If you listen to what John Redwood said on Radio Scotland this morning you will realise that's never going to happen.....after we vote No the Tories will drag it out.....what have they got to lose ah yes 1 MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) If you listen to what John Redwood said on Radio Scotland this morning you will realise that's never going to happen.....after we vote No the Tories will drag it out.....what have they got to lose ah yes 1 MP John Redwood is now only a backbencher and has little, if any, influence on the Government. There is also a general election next year and the Conservatives could be out of power anyway. Only having one MP means that the Tories would have every incentive to to do deal quickly to get the Labour, Lib Dem and SNP MPs out of the Commons. Labour will have the biggest incentive to drag out negotiations as it could need Scottish MPs to vote on English laws. If Scotland votes Yes, the voters rest of the UK will want a say, probably a referendum, on the separation agreement and any deal to allow Scotland to keep Sterling. They are not going to allow Ministers of any party to give Salmond everything that he wants. The negotiations with the EU, especially the financial contribution, will take time too. All new entrants must agree to join the Euro and the Schengen Area. If we join the Schengen Area and the UK retains its opt-out, rUK would have to set-up border controls. Anyone who thinks that independence can be achieved in two or three years is living in a fantasy world. Edited September 15, 2014 by kni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 The powers are guaranteed by all 3 parties. They will not go back on them. There was a joint declaration by all 3 parties a month ago and again by Gordon Brown last week. Leaving the EU is smoke and mirrors. A totally hypothetical situation and I need to add social opinions of Europe in Scotland and rUK are similar.I'd be campaigning as hard to stay in EU but that is an institution which needs to change. An iScotland would get into EU as a new member so it loses UK benefits like rebate up to couple hundred pounds per person, no VAT on food, childrens clothes and outside €uro. Financial jobs would go as we will not be in a currency union. Politically it is suicide as rUK voters will be against it. There will be an inward looking mentality with both sides which will damage both. Economically Scotland will be powered on oil with almost 20% of income from there. So when oil price goes up % rates need to be raised to cool down and balance economy. But in rUK they need to go down as costs will have risen. The economies have become divergent. Finance and markets hate instability and unknowns so they will protect majority of clients and shareholders and move operations south. The Yes campaign is powered by "Hope" (100% nats) and "Hate" (those against certain types of 'elite') so drown out any discussion on UK benefits and economic stability and success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 The powers are guaranteed by all 3 parties. They will not go back on them. There was a joint declaration by all 3 parties a month ago and again by Gordon Brown last week. Leaving the EU is smoke and mirrors. A totally hypothetical situation and I need to add social opinions of Europe in Scotland and rUK are similar.I'd be campaigning as hard to stay in EU but that is an institution which needs to change. An iScotland would get into EU as a new member so it loses UK benefits like rebate up to couple hundred pounds per person, no VAT on food, childrens clothes and outside €uro. Financial jobs would go as we will not be in a currency union. Politically it is suicide as rUK voters will be against it. There will be an inward looking mentality with both sides which will damage both. Economically Scotland will be powered on oil with almost 20% of income from there. So when oil price goes up % rates need to be raised to cool down and balance economy. But in rUK they need to go down as costs will have risen. The economies have become divergent. Finance and markets hate instability and unknowns so they will protect majority of clients and shareholders and move operations south. The Yes campaign is powered by "Hope" (100% nats) and "Hate" (those against certain types of 'elite') so drown out any discussion on UK benefits and economic stability and success. How can you guarantee something that doesn't exist? There are only 3 separate proposals that's all They are also not guaranteed because Westminster and the House of Lords have to approve them and they may not Labour are now behind in the latest Westminster poll Let's imagine another hung parliament ....we will be an after thought 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 The powers are guaranteed by all 3 parties. They will not go back on them. There was a joint declaration by all 3 parties a month ago and again by Gordon Brown last week. Leaving the EU is smoke and mirrors. A totally hypothetical situation and I need to add social opinions of Europe in Scotland and rUK are similar.I'd be campaigning as hard to stay in EU but that is an institution which needs to change. An iScotland would get into EU as a new member so it loses UK benefits like rebate up to couple hundred pounds per person, no VAT on food, childrens clothes and outside €uro. Financial jobs would go as we will not be in a currency union. Politically it is suicide as rUK voters will be against it. There will be an inward looking mentality with both sides which will damage both. Economically Scotland will be powered on oil with almost 20% of income from there. So when oil price goes up % rates need to be raised to cool down and balance economy. But in rUK they need to go down as costs will have risen. The economies have become divergent. Finance and markets hate instability and unknowns so they will protect majority of clients and shareholders and move operations south. The Yes campaign is powered by "Hope" (100% nats) and "Hate" (those against certain types of 'elite') so drown out any discussion on UK benefits and economic stability and success. Since 1945 130 countries have become independent , two thirds with populations of less than 10m people Slovakia, Slovenia, Latvia etc etc they all survive and none want to go back Finance jobs have gone to India a foreign country why? It's cheaper oh and a job in finance in Edinburgh is 50% cheaper than London move operations down South highly unlikely In Norway oil is 20% of the economy in Scotland it's 15% .....Norway the richest country in Europe bet they hate all that oil Best two countries in Europe for business start ups according to the World Bank ....Norway and Denmark We have an opportunity! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) Since 1945 130 countries have become independent , two thirds with populations of less than 10m people Slovakia, Slovenia, Latvia etc etc they all survive and none want to go back Finance jobs have gone to India a foreign country why? It's cheaper oh and a job in finance in Edinburgh is 50% cheaper than London move operations down South highly unlikely In Norway oil is 20% of the economy in Scotland it's 15% .....Norway the richest country in Europe bet they hate all that oil Best two countries in Europe for business start ups according to the World Bank ....Norway and Denmark We have an opportunity! A significant number of those 130 countries were in the old Soviet Union or Eastern Bloc. It's not surprising that they would not want to return to a Communist Empire that oppressed and murdered their citizens. A large proportion of their talented young people have emigrated and economic stagnation has resulted in many cases. They suffered badly from the Eurozone's financial crisis too as currency unions favour the large countries that dominate and control them. Norway is not in the EU and has its own currency but that's not part of the "independence" deal that we are being asked to vote for. Edited September 15, 2014 by kni 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Looking forward to the St Mirren & Thistle fans joining in a chorus of Flower Of Scotland, on Friday. Jags fans cheering a good win at a polling Jags fans cheering a goodwin that appalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 The powers are guaranteed by all 3 parties. They will not go back on them. There was a joint declaration by all 3 parties a month ago and again by Gordon Brown last week. Guaranteed? Do you work in the mainstream media? Can you link to this declaration, because i'd be absolutely amazed if not one person in the UK has picked up on this. Everyone has stated that these are just offers, maybe's. Nothing is set in stone. Incidentally, based on the way we poll and the "offers" being made, people could vote No based on Labour's offer, to then see England give us a Tory government. Or we could vote Yes, and give us the power to ensure that we have a democratic vote to elect the party Scotland votes for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Guaranteed? Do you work in the mainstream media? Can you link to this declaration, because i'd be absolutely amazed if not one person in the UK has picked up on this. Everyone has stated that these are just offers, maybe's. Nothing is set in stone. Incidentally, based on the way we poll and the "offers" being made, people could vote No based on Labour's offer, to then see England give us a Tory government. Or we could vote Yes, and give us the power to ensure that we have a democratic vote to elect the party Scotland votes for. Exactly....interesting to see the guy who headed up the devo max process say the same thing and he is voting year accordingly Funny that the Labour Party proposals are the weakest of the 3 Devo max it's not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 If there's one word that has no place in this debate it's "guaranteed". Fed up with crystal ball gazers telling us they're right and others are wrong. I started gambling with my daughter's future the day she was conceived. It's the nature of life. Referendum choice is a matter of judgement and opinion. There's no right and wrong. Debate is good. Arrogant one-sided ranting is not. So my rant is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottymagoo Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely they can't 'guarentee' us more powers if they would have to be voted through parliament and the house of lords? Is it not the case that all they can guarentee is that they will try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 ****ittydoo, is there nowhere I can escape from Indy nonsense? Noone is going to change their mind now, no matter how much anyone thinks they should. For what it's worth I think the Yes campaign is pretty mental and it would be bad for Scotland (albeit not that bad - just worse than it is right now - but probably ok eventually) but, importantly, I think it would be bad for Thistle - when we get our own currency and it devalues we'll struggle even more than we do now to compete on wages with teams in England which will be of particular issue in the section of the market we operate in. Beyond the above I fail to see any aspect of this that is relevant in this section of the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely they can't 'guarentee' us more powers if they would have to be voted through parliament and the house of lords? Is it not the case that all they can guarentee is that they will try? Correct .... And how can you guarantee they will even agree anything ?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 we will be an after thought Exactly. I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDFA Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Relax everyone. Ming Campbell has set out the LibDems' grand-sounding "Home Rule Commission", so there's nothing to worry about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDFA Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I have to say, the fact that the result of this referendum is at all in the balance makes me feel slightly embarrassed to be Scottish. What does it say when a nation is hesitant when faced with the opportunity to stand on its own two feet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Which has been thought out for years, unlike the YES plans. If you are getting to the stage of attacking Ming Campbell, you have lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I have to say, the fact that the result of this referendum is at all in the balance makes me feel slightly embarrassed to be Scottish. What does it say when a nation is hesitant when faced with the opportunity to stand on its own two feet? It says you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 And that is a terrible picture of Jo Swinson. I love her, shame she is married with a new kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDFA Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I can't work out who you're more in love with - Swinson or Campbell...? I'd invite you to tell me how I'm wrong... but I have standards, and don't want to waste my time listening to any more Better Together bullsh*t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDFA Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Guarantees indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I would crawl for miles over broken bottles for Jo Swinson. She has been an outstanding, and extremely hardworking, MP who deserves to hold East Dumbartonshire. Her work on eating disorders, and her attacks on the fashion industry have been a hell of a lot more than most MP's have done. If I'd been in a better place, I'd have been out on the road for her this last few weeks. When I tried my desultory campaign for Partick West, Jo was there knocking doors. She should be cabinet material, but the politics may not work out that way. How are you wrong? You are wrong because you think people have things to gain. You forget that people have things to lose. You will never meet a wealthy gambler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyprusjag Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 For what it's worth I had a meeting with my Financial Advisor last Monday to review my pension plan.I was given the value of my pot and advised that it was now worth £2000 less than it was a fortnight ago all due to the possibility of a yes vote .It's a sad fact of life that the financial markets are no respecter of dreams and hopes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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