Sack Archie

[Keiththejag]

We beat a Ross County that got punped off Hibs, And an Inverness that got beat off Sevco. We have gone backwards big time. 3 0 at Killie FFS. Something needs done

[billko]

We beat a Ross County that got punped off Hibs, And an Inverness that got beat off Sevco. We have gone backwards big time. 3 0 at Killie FFS. Something needs done

You could also say an Inverness who beat last years champiions celtic who will be champions again this year so you can look at it from other angles.

Edited September 28, 2014 by billko

[Gingerjag]

So we've not even played everyone once, not even in October! and folk have Hamilton avoiding the bottom 6.

 

All so they can build a case to convince folk our manager should be sacked.

 

 

 

Just to add some perspective, my nephew's best mate is an Accies fan, he reckons they'll go into free fall when suspensions kick in as their main tactic so far has been to kick the shit out of the opposition, so far it has worked. So far.

you dont beat motherwell away 4-0 by kickin the shit out them. your right tho its a long season and hamilton will do well to keep the form up and get top six when suspensions and injuries kick in

[potty trained]

you dont beat motherwell away 4-0 by kickin the shit out them. your right tho its a long season and hamilton will do well to keep the form up and get top six when suspensions and injuries kick in

 

True. You just seem to turn up and beat Motherwell. They are stinkin.

[Gingerjag]

beat us 3 outta 3 last year

[potty trained]

beat us 3 outta 3 last year

 

That was last season.

[Gingerjag]

yeah but I think the bulk of both squads are the same so for hamilton to pump them 4 nil, beat us and have a great start in general isnt down to kicking teams off the park.

 

 

 

 

 

[Willjag]

Our poor performances have all been when Seabourne hasn't been on the park. Hamilton and St. Mirren then when he went off the park yesterday. The guy has had a really unlucky start for us with injuries. I think him and Conrad have the look of a decent pairing when they are on the park together that will improve as they get to know one another's game. I've always thought that Conrad has been slow starting the season and comes onto a game the more the season goes on anyway. We've been really unlucky with injuries so far this season.

 

As for the league, I think Dundee will start to drop back into the pack at the bottom half. Ross will continue to pick up once they get a bit more organised, but unless they bring in more quality in January, especially at the back, they'll finish in the bottom two for certain. St Mirren's season will hinge on when they can get Thompson back to full fitness. They'll need to hope they can stay in touch with the rest at the bottom. Motherwell and St Johnstone's season will pick up and they may not end up in the top 6, but I don't think they'll be in relegation trouble at the end of the season. My early season predictions are at the end of the season (in no particular order, except for the top 4 maybe):-

 

Top4 - Celtic, Aberdeen, Dundee United and ICT.

 

Middle 4 - St. Johnstone, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Hamilton.

 

Bottom 4 - Thistle, Dundee, St. Mirren and Ross.

[Jag]

Like, I think most Jags supporters I am not calling for the managers head, whether served on a plate or otherwise. However, as someone who goes to the vast majority of games home and away, it would be extremely remiss of me not to express legitimate concerns about the team.

We have looked in recent matches like a side who have lost their way totally and bear little or no resemblance to the side who earned such plaudits playing fasts, attacking, passing and adventurous stuff last season. I realise that we do not possess the required resources to replace the quality we've lost in recent times. Similarly, to a certain extent bringing in new players particularly on our limited resources is always going to be something of a gamble.

Not withstanding mall of this surely there are valid questions to be asked?

Although, I would much prefer to remain in the top League, I personally attach more importance to this club having a substainab commitment to producing football of a decent standard and played a progressive manner. Unfortunately, I see none of this exhibited by the preaent set up. If the management team do not get a hanle on things, in performance terms at least over the next month or so then I can only say with genuine sorrow that both they and we will be doomed.in

Couldn't have put it better. (well perhaps I would have used spell checker)

Edited September 29, 2014 by Jag

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

 

 

Are we all agreed? I missed the poll.

 

 

I'm part of we and I'm not all agreed

 

Sorry, just coming back to this...

 

Can I ask then if both of you think we have a stronger squad than we did last May?

 

 

 

True. You just seem to turn up and beat Motherwell. They are stinkin.

 

If, & is a big IF a we don't have a Crystal Ball, that statement domes back to haunt you Saturday night, would you put it down to another 'bad day at the office'?

 

I realise it's an unfair question as we haven't played them yet but a big statement to make to say they're 'stinkin'.

 

What will it make us Saturday night of we lose?

[potty trained]

Sorry, just coming back to this...

 

Can I ask then if both of you think we have a stronger squad than we did last May?

 

 

 

If, & is a big IF a we don't have a Crystal Ball, that statement domes back to haunt you Saturday night, would you put it down to another 'bad day at the office'?

 

I realise it's an unfair question as we haven't played them yet but a big statement to make to say they're 'stinkin'.

 

What will it make us Saturday night of we lose?

 

I wouldn't comment on the strength of the squad until closer to Christmas and players are fully fit and we are playing at our best. I think we have brought in players who have improved areas and have brought in others who could emulate what previous players have done. I think for example its far too early to criticise Carroll and would not pass judgement on him until closer to Christmas.

 

Stevenson is a weird one. He shouldn't have started the season up front, i hope that he is lacking match sharpness, i read after Saturday that he is the worst thing since sliced bread and contributes nothing, then watch the highlights and see him hit the bar from 25 yards! So, i think it's a stacked deck against him when it comes to some folks opinion.

 

 

 

I absolutely HATE that phrase, "bad day at the office" every time i hear it, i think of Derek & Gerry. I don't think it's a big statement at all, watch the highlights of the Hamilton game. There would be fckin uproar if we had given away the goals they gave away! Don't forget Motherwell are a top 6 team consistently playing not too adventurous football under McCall and grinding out wins week on week.... were they used to be like that. On the evidence so far, they are stinkin.

 

Obviously it depends what Archie & McCall do with their respective teams through the week. But i'll give you an honest opinion on Saturday night.

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

 

 

I wouldn't comment on the strength of the squad until closer to Christmas and players are fully fit and we are playing at our best. I think we have brought in players who have improved areas and have brought in others who could emulate what previous players have done. I think for example its far too early to criticise Carroll and would not pass judgement on him until closer to Christmas.

 

Stevenson is a weird one. He shouldn't have started the season up front, i hope that he is lacking match sharpness, i read after Saturday that he is the worst thing since sliced bread and contributes nothing, then watch the highlights and see him hit the bar from 25 yards! So, i think it's a stacked deck against him when it comes to some folks opinion.

 

 

 

I absolutely HATE that phrase, "bad day at the office" every time i hear it, i think of Derek & Gerry. I don't think it's a big statement at all, watch the highlights of the Hamilton game. There would be fckin uproar if we had given away the goals they gave away! Don't forget Motherwell are a top 6 team consistently playing not too adventurous football under McCall and grinding out wins week on week.... were they used to be like that. On the evidence so far, they are stinkin.

 

Obviously it depends what Archie & McCall do with their respective teams through the week. But i'll give you an honest opinion on Saturday night.

 

Fair comment re Stevenson. I don't think he's a bad a player as what many on her have suggested. I do however think we play a system which isn't best suited to him. Which, truth be told, if the manager was intent on going with this system, I'm unsure as to how he saw Stevenson fit in.

 

The players getting 'fully fit' baffles me. Why on Earth are theses guys taking the best part of 3 months to get fully fit? Even if they're holding off until end of August for the best deal for them- which I don't have a problem with btw- then why on Earth are they not at least fit by continuing to use training facilities of other clubs. It happens up & down the Country. McFadden with us an example.

 

Should it really be taking 3 months to get fit? Match fit a few games maybe but 3 months?

 

As for the goals that Motherwell conceded & an uproar etc if we did that. You did see the goals we conceded again on Saturday?

 

Cross balls/ set pieces continually not defended properly. There should be an uproar. It's the basics of the game. If we can't do the basics...,

[potty trained]

Fair comment re Stevenson. I don't think he's a bad a player as what many on her have suggested. I do however think we play a system which isn't best suited to him. Which, truth be told, if the manager was intent on going with this system, I'm unsure as to how he saw Stevenson fit in.

 

The players getting 'fully fit' baffles me. Why on Earth are theses guys taking the best part of 3 months to get fully fit? Even if they're holding off until end of August for the best deal for them- which I don't have a problem with btw- then why on Earth are they not at least fit by continuing to use training facilities of other clubs. It happens up & down the Country. McFadden with us an example.

 

Should it really be taking 3 months to get fit? Match fit a few games maybe but 3 months?

 

As for the goals that Motherwell conceded & an uproar etc if we did that. You did see the goals we conceded again on Saturday?

 

Cross balls/ set pieces continually not defended properly. There should be an uproar. It's the basics of the game. If we can't do the basics...,

 

I know what you mean, look at Lyle Taylor for example, yes he was banging in a few goals when he joined us, but he couldn't last 45 minutes for the first 6 weeks he was with us!

 

Obviously i don't mean physically fit, it was more a reference to mentally fit, players new to the Scottish game becoming mentally attuned to the Scottish Premiership. I think it will take a couple of months before Seaborne, Carroll and Osman really get used to the pace and style of the Scottish game, and as such is unfair to judge them just yet.

 

 

Whilst i understand what you mean about the goals, look at a couple of the Hamilton goals, the ball over the top the boy takes a fresh air swipe at right in the middle of his 18 yard box. we give some crazy goal aways! but christ thats bad.

 

the other one in the first half, was a typical Thistle style goal to give away, Ziggy plays a ball across the line of the defence and the Motherwell players leave it to each other.

 

I think the final goal, the one that comes down the motherwell right. i don't think i've seen us give away a goal that bad.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Sorry, just coming back to this...

 

Can I ask then if both of you think we have a stronger squad than we did last May?

 

I was responding to your assumption we all think the squad is weaker than last season. I'm tending between fence sitting and slightly stronger tho' I haven't given it too much thought as it's both subjective and really just a paper exercise.

 

The two big downsiders are the losses of Sinky and Taylor. We were never going to be able to replace the former but it's disappointing we couldn't get Taylor back. Someone with his strength and running ability is a big miss. As for left back I feel we're covered there adequately but the loss of those surging runs from ATS is a big a miss.

 

One upside is an obvious one and that's the squad in general will have benefited from a season in the top flight. Most individual should be more streetwise and better rounded players simply from that experience. Guys like McMillan, Fraser and Lawless are patently improved players. Of course if the player isn't up to this level then that experience is by and large academic. Just how many or hopefully how few remains a grey area so early in the season, Last season of course we had our share in Forbes, Baird, Kerr, Gabriel, & Mukendi and I doubt this season will throw up as many.

 

I'm actually more concerned with the shape of the team than the constituents but that's a different matter. So to half answer the question I feel the squad is slightly stronger even if Stevenson turns out to be this season's Ross Forbes. The likes of Seabourne and Osman maybe don't match Taylor & ATS (different positions of course but in terms of overall effectiveness) but the maturity of many of the squad possibly more than compensate.

 

As said the way we're playing is of more concern than the respective season v season quality of individual players.

Edited September 29, 2014 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

 

 

I was responding to your assumption we all think the squad is weaker than last season. I'm tending between fence sitting and slightly stronger tho' I haven't given it too much thought as it's both subjective and really just a paper exercise.

 

The two big downsiders are the losses of Sinky and Taylor. We were never going to be able to replace the former but it's disappointing we couldn't get Taylor back. Someone with his strength and running ability is a big miss. As for left back I feel we're covered there adequately but the loss of those surging runs from ATS is a big a miss.

 

One upside is an obvious one and that's the squad in general will have benefited from a season in the top flight. Most individual should be more streetwise and better rounded players simply from that experience. Guys like McMillan, Fraser and Lawless are patently improved players. Of course if the player isn't up to this level then that experience is by and large academic. Just how many or hopefully how few remains a grey area so early in the season, Last season of course we had our share in Forbes, Baird, Kerr, Gabriel, & Mukendi and I doubt this season will throw up as many.

 

I'm actually more concerned with the shape of the team than the constituents but that's a different matter. So to half answer the question I feel the squad is slightly stronger even if Stevenson turns out to be this season's Ross Forbes. The likes of Seabourne and Osman maybe don't match Taylor & ATS (different positions of course but in terms of overall effectiveness) but the maturity of many of the squad possibly more than compensate.

 

As said the way we're playing is of more concern than the respective season v season quality of individual players.

 

The question was though, is the squad stronger now than it was last May?

 

I think it is stronger than start of last season in, as you say, certain players having a year at SPL level. However the squad we had at start of last season was nowhere near good enough.

 

I think we have brought in, on paper, better quality players this Summer but as soon as injuries/suspensions kick in the squad on the whole, in my opinion, is weaker than last May.

 

Perhaps it was a sweeping statement to say WE all agree the squad is weaker but genuinely don't think I've either heard or read anyone saying they think the squad IS stronger than end of last season.

 

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

The question was though, is the squad stronger now than it was last May?

 

I think it is stronger than start of last season in, as you say, certain players having a year at SPL level. However the squad we had at start of last season was nowhere near good enough.

 

I think we have brought in, on paper, better quality players this Summer but as soon as injuries/suspensions kick in the squad on the whole, in my opinion, is weaker than last May.

 

Perhaps it was a sweeping statement to say WE all agree the squad is weaker but genuinely don't think I've either heard or read anyone saying they think the squad IS stronger than end of last season.

 

Ok. Still feel we could be slightly stronger but I really feel we need to wait till Dec/Jan to agree or disagree.

[potty trained]

The question was though, is the squad stronger now than it was last May?

 

I think it is stronger than start of last season in, as you say, certain players having a year at SPL level. However the squad we had at start of last season was nowhere near good enough.

 

I think we have brought in, on paper, better quality players this Summer but as soon as injuries/suspensions kick in the squad on the whole, in my opinion, is weaker than last May.

 

Perhaps it was a sweeping statement to say WE all agree the squad is weaker but genuinely don't think I've either heard or read anyone saying they think the squad IS stronger than end of last season.

 

Ok look at it this way.

 

Goal Keepers: Same as May. Fox hasn't progressed as a goalkeeper, making same mistakes as last season, still not commanding his defenders or box. Gall is Gall, you know what you get. Gall should be first pick and we should be looking to get a new goalie in, or hoping the young lad who's name escapes me is ready to step up as an understudy to Gall. Tough call, but i'd recall him in January, ship out Fox and let him be Gall's understudy. i think Fox has come as far as he can and won't progress further than he has.

 

Right Back: Improved. SOD is now fit, which he wasn't for the majority of the season. McMillan has greatly improved over 12 months in the premiership, from the player we saw at the end of the first div campaign.

 

Centre Half: Jury's Out. Mair and Gabby away. I think Seaborne is better than Mair, we don't know if Everton is better than Gabby. whats disappointing is Muirhead and Balaoni haven't progressed with experience.

 

Left Back: Jury's Out. I think it's unfair to judge Carroll on just over a handfull of games, he looks like he could progress into a real player, but he still shows a lot of innocence. We do have a youth player a lot closer to the first team, so thats an improvement.

 

Midfield 3: Improved. Fraser has progressed greatly in his short term with us. Bannigan whilst wiser, isn't as attack minded. Craigan is maybe stagnating due to Stevenson getting a run. Whilst not a goal scorer, he offers a great link up and was involved in a lot of assists for us last season. We've added Osman to the defensive side, so that's an improvement. I wasn't a big Bauban fan, but right now, he's better than Stevenson.

 

Right Wing: Improved. Lawless is like a new player. Elliott has improved from a player "who couldn't get a game in the first division", to a great squad player who offers a ridiculous amount of versatility coming off the bench.

 

Left Wing: Same as May. Higgy has carried on where he left off.

 

Striker: Weaker. Doolan has carried on where he left off, we haven't replaced Taylor. Or at least we won't know if we've replaced Taylor until Eccleston has had a run of games.

[scottymagoo]

He got us promoted, he kept us in the league last year, we're currently sitting 4 pts clear of the relegation places after 7 games played. I share plenty of the frustrations mentioned but on these facts I would say it's unfair to sack the management team at present.

[stillresigned]

Anyone who is seriously caling for the managers head is quite frankly deluded IMO. It ain't gonna happen, for football and financial reasons it's is totally a non-starter. That doesn't mean that we should be sanguine about most of the fare served up by Thistle, in more ways than one it is totally unacceptable for professional football players to turn performances that are totally devoid of any positive facets. In other words the support cannot and will not accept performances of the sort we have witnesses more than once this season. I've got to believe Archie will sort this out, otherwise foot au being the short term sport it is he'll start to lose the crowd. As some player e.g. Fox, Ballatoni and Stevenson I believe, if they haven't are well on their way to doing so! A wee piece of advise for Archis is not to begin to engage in the usual patronising.verbiàge, most managers in trouble resort to

i.e. we've been unlucky with a, b, c or d!

'Coz apart from maybe up at Dens we haven't been, in most of our games and particularly at Rugby Park on Saturday, we were frankly rank rotten!

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

 

 

Ok look at it this way.

 

Goal Keepers: Same as May. Fox hasn't progressed as a goalkeeper, making same mistakes as last season, still not commanding his defenders or box. Gall is Gall, you know what you get. Gall should be first pick and we should be looking to get a new goalie in, or hoping the young lad who's name escapes me is ready to step up as an understudy to Gall. Tough call, but i'd recall him in January, ship out Fox and let him be Gall's understudy. i think Fox has come as far as he can and won't progress further than he has.

 

Right Back: Improved. SOD is now fit, which he wasn't for the majority of the season. McMillan has greatly improved over 12 months in the premiership, from the player we saw at the end of the first div campaign.

 

Centre Half: Jury's Out. Mair and Gabby away. I think Seaborne is better than Mair, we don't know if Everton is better than Gabby. whats disappointing is Muirhead and Balaoni haven't progressed with experience.

 

Left Back: Jury's Out. I think it's unfair to judge Carroll on just over a handfull of games, he looks like he could progress into a real player, but he still shows a lot of innocence. We do have a youth player a lot closer to the first team, so thats an improvement.

 

Midfield 3: Improved. Fraser has progressed greatly in his short term with us. Bannigan whilst wiser, isn't as attack minded. Craigan is maybe stagnating due to Stevenson getting a run. Whilst not a goal scorer, he offers a great link up and was involved in a lot of assists for us last season. We've added Osman to the defensive side, so that's an improvement. I wasn't a big Bauban fan, but right now, he's better than Stevenson.

 

Right Wing: Improved. Lawless is like a new player. Elliott has improved from a player "who couldn't get a game in the first division", to a great squad player who offers a ridiculous amount of versatility coming off the bench.

 

Left Wing: Same as May. Higgy has carried on where he left off.

 

Striker: Weaker. Doolan has carried on where he left off, we haven't replaced Taylor. Or at least we won't know if we've replaced Taylor until Eccleston has had a run of games.

 

I'd probably agree with most of your assessment except right back & right wing.

 

McMillan struggled with fitness last season also. I think defensively he is better option than O'Donnell but he's on,y one part of a back 4/5 that's struggling.

 

Right wing- Elliot I'm totally unconvinced with. Plenty of pace & effort coming info a game for 20 minutes but aside from that he offers little or no threat in front of goal, has a poor first touch & lacks composure when on the ball. Lawless, he started off last season well then went off the boil. I hope his improvement continues but as yet jury out for me.

 

I also think that Higgy isn't firing on all cylinders just now. Maybe that's partly due to him missing ATS or maybe it's due to having a lack of options to pick out in the box. Perhaps both.

[potty trained]

 

 

Right wing- Elliot I'm totally unconvinced with. Plenty of pace & effort coming info a game for 20 minutes but aside from that he offers little or no threat in front of goal, has a poor first touch & lacks composure when on the ball.

 

The vast majority of that statement is, for want of a better word, shite.

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

 

 

The vast majority of that statement is, for want of a better word, shite.

 

Your opinion.

 

But the vast majority, so which bit do you agree with?

[potty trained]

Your opinion.

 

But the vast majority, so which bit do you agree with?

 

I think he offers little threat infront of goal.

 

But i don't think that's due to ability, but due to the manager using him as a bit part player and when he does come onm he's used to support the right back, instead of support the striker..

 

he's scored some great goals coming off the bench, not least of all a peach against Celtic against the "best keeper in scotland", at the time.

 

Its a pity for him, that a lot of Thistle fans have made their mind up and won't ever see past their judgement of him and allow their opinion to change, or at least see the positives.

[The Cup]

Carroll is pure Abe Lincoln. Elliott would do a better job at left back than him.

 

Get McMillan to LB and O'Donnell back in the team.

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

 

 

I think he offers little threat infront of goal.

 

But i don't think that's due to ability, but due to the manager using him as a bit part player and when he does come onm he's used to support the right back, instead of support the striker..

 

he's scored some great goals coming off the bench, not least of all a peach against Celtic against the "best keeper in scotland", at the time.

 

Its a pity for him, that a lot of Thistle fans have made their mind up and won't ever see past their judgement of him and allow their opinion to change, or at least see the positives.

 

I think he's a Lambie type in that he gives you a shift, that's it.

 

He scored a nice goal against Celtic that night, probably as he didn't have time to think about it, but aside from that other goals coming off the bench-DU in cup last year in last minute when we were down & out anyway (wasn't at game & never ever saw the goal so can't comment). The Airdrie goal- the one that took 2 deflections to put it on target & wrong foot the keeper?

 

The guy doesn't (never has to be honest) impress me. He has pace, power & puts in a shift... The exact opposite of someone like Ross Forbes-all the skill but questionable work rate & not blessed with pace.

 

That probably sums up the Scottish game in a nutshell.

 

I also think that when he is used from the start he's not even as effective as he is as a sub. That probably sums it up for me.

 

Like I said, my opinion.