Killie Game 02/04/16

[potty trained]

 

 

we didn't have one shot on target

 

I didn't say we did.

 

I gave a pretty detailed answer to a specific post directed at me, and that's all you can quote?

 

Is there any point having a discussion with you?

Edited April 2, 2016 by potty trained

[Lionel J. Botch]

That was honking.

 

That's all.

[Fearchar]

we didn't have one shot on target

 

Let's face it - Pogba has been a poor signing, and should be punted asap. What has happened to German?

[angry gaz]

I didn't say we did.

 

I know

[potty trained]

 

 

I know

 

So why bother posting if you aren't will8ng to discuss anything else I posted?

[Big Col]

 

 

Tell me why he didn't jump once.

 

You didn't notice that continually working to our advantage especially in the first half?

 

1. He's lazy and useless.

 

2. How did it work to our advantage? No shots on target, very few efforts off target, piss poor possession play.

[potty trained]

 

 

1. He's lazy and useless.

 

2. How did it work to our advantage? No shots on target, very few efforts off target, piss poor possession play.

 

Ok there's quite clearly no point what so ever attempting to have any sort of discussion with you if that's the quality of debate you're putting forward.

 

Incidentally, there's no point asking me a question if I've already provided the answer earlier.

 

Especially when you are editing my posts to remove the majority of content when you quote them.

 

 

[Woodstock Jag]

 

 

As soon as you mentioned Welsh I gave up. The man is always in the game always looking for the ball. WTF is wrong with people that totally bellend a player who has been through so much including a huge injury ?

 

I'm not a boo boy. I think Welsh has had some decent games this season. But his game is far too slow too often at this level. His passing is often half a second late or behind the target and that kills off our threat. He needs to be a lot more direct.

 

Bannigan suffered from this to an extent but nowhere near as much and he, admittedly partly but not wholly because of fitness, has overcome that by becoming more direct.

 

Few question Welsh's effort or that he hasn't been through the mill with injuries, but he is not conducive to crisp and effective attacking at the moment.

[sick in the basin]

Thought the first half was great. Amoo and Pogba were stand outs with Miller link8ng up really well with them. Best 45 I've seen from Welsh this season.

 

Anyone who rubbishes Pogba on today's performance does not know a thing about tactics or maybe doesn't watch what's happening during a game.

 

Second half was really poor. All the good work fell apart. Balls started breaking to them instead of us.

 

As for killie. Sitting second bottom of the league and time wasting 20 minutes into the first half at nil nil? Get it up ye.

 

Pogba.... Out of 25 odd games he'd be lucky to get pass marks in 4 or 5. A physical cf who can't/won't jump for 50/50's and 2 goals is a waste of a wage. Then again I clearly don't have the tactical nous of some and be interesting to see all those in favour ....

[Big Col]

 

 

Ok there's quite clearly no point what so ever attempting to have any sort of discussion with you if that's the quality of debate you're putting forward.

 

Incidentally, there's no point asking me a question if I've already provided the answer earlier.

 

Especially when you are editing my posts to remove the majority of content when you quote them.

 

Nothing wrong with the quality of my debate - just stating the facts. Can you disagree with them? Stats speak volumes.

 

You're claiming to know what instructions the manager gave Pogba. Were you in the dressing room prior to the game and at half time?

 

[Third Lanark]

 

 

Tell me why he didn't jump once. Yet didn't once get shouted at by the manager?

 

I mean you've got a big lump of a target man and you pump the majority of high balls at him and he doesn't jump once? But the manager doesn't question him on it?

 

When he doesn't jump the majority of clearing headers hardly clear 20 yards and we are on top of every one of them. Using Edwards tenacity and Osman's bite to win the second ball and move our play into their half.

 

You didn't notice that continually working to our advantage especially in the first half?

to be honest whether it's Pogba or any other player for that matter I don't think it would be Archies style to berate any player on the pitch

[angry gaz]

So why bother posting if you aren't will8ng to discuss anything else I posted?

 

Who said Im not?

 

I merely quoted a sentence that is your own summing up of your own post.

[potty trained]

 

 

Nothing wrong with the quality of my debate - just stating the facts. Can you disagree with them? Stats speak volumes.

 

You're claiming to know what instructions the manager gave Pogba. Were you in the dressing room prior to the game and at half time?

 

Im not claiming to know the tactics. I'm putting forward a plausible reason for him not jumping backed up with evidence to support it: our midfield winning the second ball.

 

 

Now, maybe answer the questions that all the nay sayers are ducking from ..

 

If he was as bad as the 4 or 5 on here are making out...

 

Why did three players go over and congratulate him on his game as he left the park?

 

Why did he remain on the park so long?

 

Why didn't the bench shout at him once, after he didn't jump for a header?

 

 

[potty trained]

See the folk complaining about us not having a shot on target.

 

My point re winning the second ball is not in any way related to it, so there's no point trying to join the two.

 

It's what happens after we win the second ball in their half, where we fell down today.

[potty trained]

 

 

Who said Im not?

 

I merely quoted a sentence that is your own summing up of your own post.

 

I look forward to you re quoting the bits you deleted, and discussing them, then.

[Big Col]

 

 

Im not claiming to know the tactics. I'm putting forward a plausible reason for him not jumping backed up with evidence to support it: our midfield winning the second ball.

 

 

Now, maybe answer the questions that all the nay sayers are ducking from ..

 

If he was as bad as the 4 or 5 on here are making out...

 

Why did three players go over and congratulate him on his game as he left the park?

 

Why did he remain on the park so long?

 

Why didn't the bench shout at him once, after he didn't jump for a header?

 

1. Football is a team game. Do you really expect professionals to tell a team-mate that he's had a bad game?

 

2. Poor judgement/tactics from the management team

 

3. Not in their nature to do that.

 

And it may only be 4 or 5 posters on here, but there were more than 4 or 5 at the game who thought he was crap.

 

Incidentally, just for the record, I'm not saying he was the only one who was honking today.

[angry gaz]

I look forward to you re quoting the bits you deleted, and discussing them, then.

 

I look forward to you re quoting the bits you deleted, and discussing them, then.

 

would that be the posts you edit after people quote them too?

[potty trained]

 

 

1. Football is a team game. Do you really expect professionals to tell a team-mate that he's had a bad game?

 

2. Poor judgement/tactics from the management team

 

3. Not in their nature to do that.

 

And it may only be 4 or 5 posters on here, but there were more than 4 or 5 at the game who thought he was crap.

 

Incidentally, just for the record, I'm not saying he was the only one who was honking today.

 

1. That has nothing to do with the question I asked. Why did 3 players go over to congratulate him?

 

2. I think if you are right, it goes beyond poor judgement if the management team are willing to keep a proven goal scorer on the bench behind someone who is not jumping for the ball. Think about it for a second. Your job is in jeopardy every time the team kicks off a game. You have a guy in the pitch who is your out ball, your target man. He hasn't jumped for a single ball. But you leave him on the pitch even after half time to continue to do the same thing? And you as a fan don't think there's any way possible that he was specifically told to rather than jump and win headers, therefore commit other players further up the park against a team defending high up the pitch, he may have been told to just get in about them and put them off their stride so that our midfield can pick up the second ball?

 

3. I don't give a shit what their nature is. That's a cop out to suggest that. You have a guy on the pitch who according to some was not doing his job. And the reason the management didn't get into his ribs was because it's not in their nature? Please!

Edited April 2, 2016 by potty trained

[potty trained]

 

 

 

 

would that be the posts you edit after people quote them too?

 

If I have edited a post it's while you are in the process of posting. Please don't suggest I deliberately go back and edit posts after a comment.

[angry gaz]

If I have edited a post it's while you are in the process of posting. Please don't suggest I deliberately go back and edit posts after a comment.

I accept that

 

On football matters I cannot accept that The manager asked Pogba not to try to win headers .Ive seen plenty of games were he doesn't win headers,

I actually like Pogba and don't think he is a lazy player as some suggest but our style of play has changed for the worse in the way that the manager is using him.

We're becoming more and more of a long ball team and its awful to watch. The players are falling into a trap of launching the ball to Pogs far too often now.

Until we get whoever is up front facing the goal and in the box with ball at feet we will struggle to score a lot of goals. Pogba is a better forward than they way we are using him. United have three huge central defenders and if we spend the game punting the ball to Pogba and hitting crosses in from far too wide out we will get hee haw.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Editing a past post is done post-post.

 

I trust that clears up the matter

[Big Col]

 

 

1. That has nothing to do with the question I asked. Why did 3 players go over to congratulate him?

 

2. I think if you are right, it goes beyond poor judgement if the management team are willing to keep a proven goal scorer on the bench behind someone who is not jumping for the ball. Think about it for a second. Your job is in jeopardy every time the team kicks off a game. You have a guy in the pitch who is your out ball, your target man. He hasn't jumped for a single ball. But you leave him on the pitch even after half time to continue to do the same thing? And you as a fan don't think there's any way possible that he was specifically told to rather than jump and win headers, therefore commit other players further up the park against a team defending high up the pitch, he may have been told to just get in about them and put them off their stride so that our midfield can pick up the second ball?

 

3. I don't give a shit what their nature is. That's a cop out to suggest that. You have a guy on the pitch who according to some was not doing his job. And the reason the management didn't get into his ribs was because it's not in their nature? Please!

 

So as well as knowing what was said in the dressing room, you know what goes on in the managers head and you know exactly everything that was said by the bench to each player all game? Please!

 

If you are right, and he was told to do what he did, then the manager has plumped for the long ball game then? If so, that's a terrible turn of events. And not for the first time. What's happened to our free flowing passing game?

 

But the fact remains that whatever he was told to do didn't produce an end result. I don't agree with your point about our midfield picking up 95% of second balls. Too many times today our midfield were slow to react.

 

And back to Pogba, he had one good chance with a back post header in the first half and couldn't even get it on target.

 

Sorry to say, but the guy isn't a footballer.

 

You obviously disagree. Which is fine. Because the world would be awfully boring if we all had the same opinion.

[potty trained]

 

I accept that

 

On football matters I cannot accept that The manager asked Pogba not to try to win headers .Ive seen plenty of games were he doesn't win headers,

I actually like Pogba and don't think he is a lazy player as some suggest but our style of play has changed for the worse in the way that the manager is using him.

We're becoming more and more of a long ball team and its awful to watch. The players are falling into a trap of launching the ball to Pogs far too often now.

Until we get whoever is up front facing the goal and in the box with ball at feet we will struggle to score a lot of goals. Pogba is a better forward than they way we are using him. United have three huge central defenders and if we spend the game punting the ball to Pogba and hitting crosses in from far too wide out we will get hee haw.

 

And Ive seen plenty games where he does win headers. I'm just trying to provide an explanation as to why our target man didn't attempt to win a header. And whilst doing that explain why the likes f Edwards and Osmwn were right in their faces winning every second ball.

 

It seems more than a coincidence that it repeatedly happened the whole time Pogba was on.

 

Think about it this way. Long balls are no longer a tactic to directly provide a goal scoring threat. The game has evolved and the removal of the second striker doesn't allow it.

 

The main purpose of the long ball now, is to get your attackers in possession further up the park, earlier.

 

If you are playing against a team who press high up the park, it's now common to play the long ball over the top of the high pressing attackers and win the second ball that drops. It means your defensive midfielders are in possession with 4 infront of them and you have eliminated some of the opposition. I think that's what we deliberately set out to do today.

 

Where it fell down was after that. We did the hard work getting the ball into good positions, then fell down later in the move.

 

Put it this way. You are playing against a team who sit with a high line and who's attackers press high up the park. Who have an out ball like Higgy...

 

Do you do what I think we did, to good effect....

 

Or do you pump high balls at Pogba who was up against a guy bigger than him, for most of the game, and hope that he wins some headers?

 

If you want him to win headers you need to commit players to pick up his headers much further up the park. If you do that, and he doesn't win the header, you've just committed players out of position and left yourself wide open to a counter attack.

 

 

If you accept that he isn't going to win the header, you don't commit players out of position. You focus on picking up the second ball, whilst maintaining your structure against a team built to counter attack.

 

 

[Willjag]

Either one of the players or one of the Management team said a few weeks ago that at this point in the season and with the pitches being in the state they are in now, our passing game is no longer viable. I reckon therein lies the main reason why Pogs is now preferred to Dools. The pitch at Firhill has never recovered from the battering it took from the really wet weather earlier in the year.

[potty trained]

 

 

If you are right, and he was told to do what he did, then the manager has plumped for the long ball game then? If so, that's a terrible turn of events. And not for the first time. What's happened to our free flowing passing game?

 

But the fact remains that whatever he was told to do didn't produce an end result. I don't agree with your point about our midfield picking up 95% of second balls. Too many times today our midfield were slow to react.

 

And back to Pogba, he had one good chance with a back post header in the first half and couldn't even get it on target.

 

Sorry to say, but the guy isn't a footballer.

 

You obviously disagree. Which is fine. Because the world would be awfully boring if we all had the same opinion.

 

just so I'm clear, do we no longer want a target man, after demanding we get one?

Do we no longer want a plan B after slating Archie for not having one?

 

Again, I can't make this any clearer, what he was told to do, doesn't go hand in hand with the "end result". What he was told to do was to provide the chance to allow us possession further up the park. He did his job to good effect. If you want to criticise, analyse what happened after we retained possession on the second ball.

 

Re his back post header, I'd love to know where you sit. I was right behind the goal and as soon as it left Amoo's boot I said out loud, that's a tough ball to get to. He'd clearly slightly over hit it. I didn't know who was at the back post at that point. A few minutes later Amoo and Pogba were talking to each other about the chance, you could see Pogba gesturing that he was having to lean back to reach it.

Edited April 2, 2016 by potty trained