jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 hours ago, partickthedog said: Why was McGinty captain yesterday? I seem to have missed the story about the change of captaincy? Is this a permanent change or a one off? Seemingly a bust up on Friday when Caldwell named the team , O’ware questioned it , Banzo backed him up . Senior players questioning Caldwell, where have we heard that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Seemingly a bust up on Friday when Caldwell named the team , O’ware questioned it , Banzo backed him up . Senior players questioning Caldwell, where have we heard that before. Senior players question managers all the time. The difference is it stays in house most of the time. Dare I say it banzo should have celebrated with the fans rather than making a point with oware? Beyond that his tackle was a disgrace in the circumstances we found ourself in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, dl1971 said: Senior players question managers all the time. The difference is it stays in house most of the time. Dare I say it banzo should have celebrated with the fans rather than making a point with oware? Beyond that his tackle was a disgrace in the circumstances we found ourself in. Caldwell doesn’t seem to like anyone questioning him ( see Doolan and Erskine) , Banzo did let his team down with that tackle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Just now, jlsarmy said: Caldwell doesn’t seem to like anyone questioning him ( see Doolan and Erskine) , Banzo did let his team down with that tackle That will make him just like every other manager then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: That will make him just like every other manager then Senior players usually have a say in a dressing room , acting as a buffer between the players and the manager to implement his ideas . If he hasn’t got the senior players on board the chances are the manager loses the dressing room and players don’t want to play for him anymore . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Is how I am reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Senior players usually have a say in a dressing room , acting as a buffer between the players and the manager to implement his ideas . If he hasn’t got the senior players on board the chances are the manager loses the dressing room and players don’t want to play for him anymore . We don’t know what goes on in the dressing room... but it’s not a workers co operative but not all managers let players have a say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 minute ago, javeajag said: We don’t know what goes on in the dressing room... but it’s not a workers co operative but not all managers let players have a say If you’ve played football at any level , you know roughly what goes on . Players wanting to know why their not playing ? If you get beat there is usually an inquest , sometimes the manager’s tactics get questioned, players not giving their all . It’s obviously magnified when it’s done in a professional environment but the same questions will still apply . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: If you’ve played football at any level , you know roughly what goes on . Players wanting to know why their not playing ? If you get beat there is usually an inquest , sometimes the manager’s tactics get questioned, players not giving their all . It’s obviously magnified when it’s done in a professional environment but the same questions will still apply . Ok .... so you know that Caldwell has not told o ware why he’s not in the team ? As I said we don’t know who says what to whom players being unhappy at not playing is normal but we don’t know o wares injury position or attitude in training Alex Ferguson he was big on taking advice from players .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 5 hours ago, jaf said: Watching that back reminds me how much worse it could have been! Our penalty also looks pretty soft? Ayr also have a better camera than Jagzone which we film using potato cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, javeajag said: Ok .... so you know that Caldwell has not told o ware why he’s not in the team ? As I said we don’t know who says what to whom players being unhappy at not playing is normal but we don’t know o wares injury position or attitude in training Alex Ferguson he was big on taking advice from players .... Gary Caldwell is not Alex Ferguson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Just now, jlsarmy said: Gary Caldwell is not Alex Ferguson Predicted response Ferguson never listened to players even when he was at st mirren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 minute ago, javeajag said: Predicted response Ferguson never listened to players even when he was at st mirren Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: Predicted response Ferguson never listened to players even when he was at st mirren That’s just not true. Ferguson always had a trusted core group of senior players who he relied on in the dressing room. Edited September 1, 2019 by KemoAvdiu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Just now, KemoAvdiu said: That’s just not true. Ferguson always had a trusted core group of senior players who he relied on in the dressing room. A friend of mine played under Ferguson at st mirren .... the players hated him some of the stories are hilarious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG1970 Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) Regardless of rumours and who said what, this seems to have a predictable outcome. Bottom of the league again under Caldwell. His team, his tactics, his signings, his points tally. Failure to win the next two games and he’s finished. Hopefully we win both those games but his inability to get any kind of consistency in almost a year at the club indicates he’s not the man to take us forward. I’ve kept hoping we had turned a corner but he performs like he’s on some never ending job experience work. Edited September 1, 2019 by JAG1970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: A friend of mine played under Ferguson at st mirren .... the players hated him some of the stories are hilarious The players feared him but respected him. Ferguson could always rely on his captain and a few others to act as that buffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, javeajag said: A friend of mine played under Ferguson at st mirren .... the players hated him some of the stories are hilarious Why on earth would you compare the greatest manager of all time with Gary Caldwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 minute ago, jlsarmy said: Why on earth would you compare the greatest manager of all time with Gary Caldwell. The generalisation is being made that ‘ managers ‘ all do this and that .... they don’t and managers don’t let players pick the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: The players feared him but respected him. Ferguson could always rely on his captain and a few others to act as that buffer Absolutely true , players like Jackie Copland helped Fergie with the young players like Tony Fitzpatrick etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted September 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 45 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Senior players usually have a say in a dressing room , acting as a buffer between the players and the manager to implement his ideas . If he hasn’t got the senior players on board the chances are the manager loses the dressing room and players don’t want to play for him anymore . Unfortunately, that appears to translate into players not wanting to play for a couple of thousand supporters who are paying their wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 minute ago, javeajag said: The generalisation is being made that ‘ managers ‘ all do this and that .... they don’t and managers don’t let players pick the team Not strictly true , look at the John Collins scenario at Hibs , Kenny Miller at Livingston , Mourinho at Chelsea , lots of examples of “ player power “ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Just now, jlsarmy said: Not strictly true , look at the John Collins scenario at Hibs , Kenny Miller at Livingston , Mourinho at Chelsea , lots of examples of “ player power “ And not good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 A manager loses the dressing room when the results are bad. Personalities dont really come into it. There were numerous stories between january and may that he had lost the dressing room.....but ironically our form improved. I'm hoping that trend happens again and if it doesnt he will be out the door soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Just now, javeajag said: And not good Both agreed on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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