javeajag Posted July 13, 2023 Report Share Posted July 13, 2023 Well it’s turned out well for us …. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcapmilkdrinker Posted July 13, 2023 Report Share Posted July 13, 2023 10 hours ago, javeajag said: Well it’s turned out well for us …. Any comment Jordanhill Jag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 13, 2023 Report Share Posted July 13, 2023 43 minutes ago, madcapmilkdrinker said: Any comment Jordanhill Jag? Looking at the “charges” they are in the main administration compliance with the English League ~ lest we forget without the Rangers Money- we would be looking at £600K of a Cash shortfall - it’s currently £300K - we were dependent on our current Chairman to pay the wages as we had no money end of last season without TJF we would have inherited a lot more than Administrative Non Compliance- and no Control over the Club So Yes -we dodged a bullet the “bullet” we dodged had nothing to do with Paul Conway or Chien Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 13, 2023 Report Share Posted July 13, 2023 11 hours ago, javeajag said: Well it’s turned out well for us …. 11 hours ago, javeajag said: Well it’s turned out well for us …. It turned out well for us purely down to TJF and the Young Fans from the Lambie Stand plus the Rangers Draw and the Generosity of our current Chairman - that’s called luck not planning It could have gone very badly wrong and nothing to do with the Barnsley owners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hosie Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 The reported interest of Conway and Lee was the catalyst for a chain reaction of events that have taken us to where we are today. I don't think anyone is remotely claiming that it was a planned, strategic route that has taken us from there to the point we are at now. That's an utterly facile argument. Everything that has happened between Conway/Lee's reported interest and today is irrelevant when suggesting that we dodged a bullet in not getting involved with them. I guess it could be claimed to ultimately have been a good thing as it has, hopefully, lead indirectly to an altogether more sustainable, fan centric, ownership model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) If I recall at the time (tho' maybe only implied) we were going to be a feeder club for Barnsley, who in turn were going to be a feeder club for Nice. We'd then have had owners who would have considered us less. A third level interest, certainly replaceable. Even if the business model had stacked up I felt for us it was flawed. If we were used as a conveyor belt for talent you could make a case for us staying in the division we're currently in. We all know there's often less scope and a reluctance in the top tier to play younger players, regardless of potential. Can't be proved of course, but I think Conway & Lee's appearance on the horizon will have steered many a Jag in the direction of fan ownership being the route to take. Edited July 14, 2023 by lady-isobel-barnett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 55 minutes ago, Tom Hosie said: The reported interest of Conway and Lee was the catalyst for a chain reaction of events that have taken us to where we are today. I don't think anyone is remotely claiming that it was a planned, strategic route that has taken us from there to the point we are at now. That's an utterly facile argument. Everything that has happened between Conway/Lee's reported interest and today is irrelevant when suggesting that we dodged a bullet in not getting involved with them. I guess it could be claimed to ultimately have been a good thing as it has, hopefully, lead indirectly to an altogether more sustainable, fan centric, ownership model. At the time the Choice was Conway etc .or the Jlo Board _- there was no third TJF option we ended up with a Jlo led Board the outcome was a £699k finance shortfall which could have taken us under The Chain of events came very close to Financial Meltdown The words FryPan and Fire spring to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 15 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: If I recall at the time (tho' maybe only implied) we were going to be a feeder club for Barnsley, who in turn were going to be a feeder club for Nice. We'd then have had owners who would have considered us less. A third level interest, certainly replaceable. Even if the business model had stacked up I felt for us it was flawed. If we were used as a conveyor belt for talent you could make a case for us staying in the division we're currently in. We all know there's often less scope and a reluctance in the top tier to play younger players, regardless of potential. Can't be proved of course, but I think Conway & Lee's appearance on the horizon will have steered many a Jag in the direction of fan ownership being the route to take. At the time Fan Ownership was not an option and ultimately we wiere sold to 3BC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hosie Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 13 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: At the time the Choice was Conway etc .or the Jlo Board _- there was no third TJF option we ended up with a Jlo led Board the outcome was a £699k finance shortfall which could have taken us under The Chain of events came very close to Financial Meltdown The words FryPan and Fire spring to mind And yes what? The conversation is not about the management of the club prior to, and subsequent to, the reported interest of Conway/Lee but whether or not becoming associated with Conway/Lee was a bullet dodged. You seem to be suggesting that any change in ownership was prefable to the then status quo. A change in ownership can, of course, be a good thing and we absolutely should have been operating with an entirely more sustainable model, but it doesn't automatically follow that will be the case. That any change is automatically for the better was then, is now and will forever be a flawed, dangerous, argument. Had a Conway/Lee takeover happened you can be almost certain that we wouldn't be where we are right now. Working under extremely challening financial constraints but equally a more sustainable and stable football club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hosie Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 24 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: At the time Fan Ownership was not an option and ultimately we wiere sold to 3BC Nobody is claiming that it was. It's clear though that the chain reaction of events, the ousting of JL and return of Beattie, the purchase of the club by Colin Weir and return of JL and the highly contentious process of transfering of the majority shareholding has taken us, indirectly, much closer to a fan ownership model . The events are intrinsically linked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 21 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: At the time Fan Ownership was not an option and ultimately we wiere sold to 3BC I know. The idea of fan ownership most certainly was back then. Perhaps what some might call Conway/Lee a "near miss" triggered opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 Ah well it's all worked out for the best Thistle friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 18 minutes ago, Tom Hosie said: Nobody is claiming that it was. It's clear though that the chain reaction of events, the ousting of JL and return of Beattie, the purchase of the club by Colin Weir and return of JL and the highly contentious process of transfering of the majority shareholding has taken us, indirectly, much closer to a fan ownership model . The events are intrinsically linked. So a Chain of Events that could have taken us under and a large degree of luck in Cup Draw is not exactly a plan ~ the dire finances creates Fan Ownership nothing more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 52 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: I know. The idea of fan ownership most certainly was back then. Perhaps what some might call Conway/Lee a "near miss" triggered opinion? There was talk of Fan Ownership- Yes But reality was a takeover by 3BC and putting Jlo back as the Chairman Only the dire finances resulted in where we are and the TJF Fan Ownership Model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Tom Hosie said: And yes what? The conversation is not about the management of the club prior to, and subsequent to, the reported interest of Conway/Lee but whether or not becoming associated with Conway/Lee was a bullet dodged. You seem to be suggesting that any change in ownership was prefable to the then status quo. A change in ownership can, of course, be a good thing and we absolutely should have been operating with an entirely more sustainable model, but it doesn't automatically follow that will be the case. That any change is automatically for the better was then, is now and will forever be a flawed, dangerous, argument. Had a Conway/Lee takeover happened you can be almost certain that we wouldn't be where we are right now. Working under extremely challening financial constraints but equally a more sustainable and stable football club. I never said “ any change of ownership “ was preferential to the status quo ~ however we did get the status quo and finances drove the changes So if it’s a choice between financial stability or having the status quo - I’m going with Financial Stability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hosie Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 40 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: So a Chain of Events that could have taken us under and a large degree of luck in Cup Draw is not exactly a plan ~ the dire finances creates Fan Ownership nothing more To repeat. Nobody is claimimg it was a plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hosie Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: I never said “ any change of ownership “ was preferential to the status quo ~ however we did get the status quo and finances drove the changes So if it’s a choice between financial stability or having the status quo - I’m going with Financial Stability The finances didn't drive the changes. The extent of the financial difficulties only became known after the transfer of shares to the PTFC Trust and after the resignation of JL and the majority of the then Board. Your last sentence is a strange one. Who wouldn't? But that wasn't an option at the time of Conway/Lee. We had the choice of the status quo or something completly unknown. Something that deeply troubled me at the time and something that looks that we did well to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: So a Chain of Events that could have taken us under and a large degree of luck in Cup Draw is not exactly a plan ~ the dire finances creates Fan Ownership nothing more I think what almost took us under was bad budgeting. It was nothing to do with Conway/Lee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 35 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I think what almost took us under was bad budgeting. It was nothing to do with Conway/Lee. That's not what people are saying. The Conway/Lee route was seen by Beattie et al as the way to off-load their shares. There were a few on here who saw it as the way forward for the club and got quite upset when the option of fan ownership started to emerge. What people are now seeing is that we were lucky that things panned out as they did, not claiming any sort of cause and effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 59 minutes ago, scotty said: That's not what people are saying. The Conway/Lee route was seen by Beattie et al as the way to off-load their shares. There were a few on here who saw it as the way forward for the club and got quite upset when the option of fan ownership started to emerge. What people are now seeing is that we were lucky that things panned out as they did, not claiming any sort of cause and effect. There was never an option for fan ownership - this is an urban myth There was a takeover by 3BC headed up by Jlo with the undefined promise by Colin Weir of Fan Ownership that was never actually written down anywhere beyond reports in the Press I don’t agree we were lucky how things panned out - without TJF and them sticking with it we would be in a different place right now - the luck part was getting Rangers in the Cup - without that £300K we would be in trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: There was never an option for fan ownership - this is an urban myth There was a takeover by 3BC headed up by Jlo with the undefined promise by Colin Weir of Fan Ownership that was never actually written down anywhere beyond reports in the Press I don’t agree we were lucky how things panned out - without TJF and them sticking with it we would be in a different place right now - the luck part was getting Rangers in the Cup - without that £300K we would be in trouble You really do have a selective memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Tom Hosie said: The finances didn't drive the changes. The extent of the financial difficulties only became known after the transfer of shares to the PTFC Trust and after the resignation of JL and the majority of the then Board. Your last sentence is a strange one. Who wouldn't? But that wasn't an option at the time of Conway/Lee. We had the choice of the status quo or something completly unknown. Something that deeply troubled me at the time and something that looks that we did well to avoid. First Paragraph is not quite correct - the state of the Finances were reported in detail at the AGM before the Share Transfer to the PTFC Trust - who in fairness quickly did there own analysis after the Share Transfer and agreed with TJF Finances drove the Board changes and the defacto merger of all three Trusts My strongly held view was that I would rather Conway / Chein than a Jlo led Board for lots of reasons the main one being finance - Fan Ownership was not an option at the time - nor was it part of 3BC purchase~ it was no more than a promise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, scotty said: You really do have a selective memory. More than happy to stand corrected if you can point out where it actually said that 3BC purchase of PTFC was legally binding on Fan Ownership.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said: More than happy to stand corrected if you can point out where it actually said that 3BC purchase of PTFC was legally binding on Fan Ownership.. Legally binding is far removed from never an option. All the discussion at the time was around fan ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 14, 2023 Report Share Posted July 14, 2023 I’m not sure there’s very much value in butterfly-effecting the last 4-5 years of Thistle history. The Conway-Lee deal was always a bit of a non-starter because of the very obvious conflicts of interest. I was highly sceptical of it and said so at the time. I’m much more interested in the situation we are actually in, and how we improve that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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