Tranche 2 & the Preservation of Power

[Jag]

On 11/11/2024 at 4:49 PM, ChiThistle said:

The most interesting point from the statement is that Tranche 2 isn’t just Donald McClymont.  The 500k comes from 7 different individuals, all putting in a minimum of 50k.

My main question is - what’s the motivation of the 6 who aren’t McClymont?  Football investment isn’t one where you get your money back.

This is what I would like to know. Venture Capitalists like to make money, so what is it that they see in Partick Thistle? This isn't fans with chequebooks we're talking about.

[Jag]

51 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Again the Political Response implying that the Club is funding the Academy - its not

And it has to be brought in house to get the SFA Grants ( nothing more ) 

As for "funding shortfalls" how exactly would that happen this Season - when we cant pay existing debtors 

TJF response to this Financial Mess is that in future if the Cash Reserves fall below agreed limits - the Board have to send TJF a letter explaining why - and of course TJF will come up with a cover story for the Fans ( as normal ) - to explain away why it was necessary to reduce Cash Reserves below agreed limits 

Just like the Board have been very careful with there wording 

There is no intention to dilute the shareholding of the club below the 65.3%

In short - TJF are trying to give the illusion that they are ensuring there are future Controls on Cash Reserves - where is in fact nothing has actually changed - the Board can also do as they please - as long as they write TJF a letter - if TJF are not going to take action when the Board are quite literally stating - we will struggle to pay our debts at the end of this Season - they will do Nada if the Future Cash Reserves drop below agreed limits   

The Board can also sell off more shares  - it wasn't there "intention" but when the Cash Runs out- and we need Tranche 3 - then they will do what they please with TJF Support   

The serious question is this - there is No reason on any level why we cannot make changes in direction to reduce our debt levels - there is No reason on any level why we cannot change Board Members - and bring in more experienced people - Yet the only person who has been sacked was Alastair Creevy - who had actually run a Profitable Business & loaned the Club a Six Figure Sum when we were desperate ?  

The only logical explanation is that both the Board Members & TJF are happy with the cosy arrangement - as long as they can get someone to underwrite the Financial Shortfall - they will keep it going - until there is No one to give us money to offset the losses - there is No Plan B 

This is not about the Good of PTFC - this is about egos - politics & agendas  

 

 

 

 

So who does fund the academy?

[Jordanhill Jag]

24 minutes ago, Tom Hosie said:

If the Board are now just going to write a letter to TJF as opposed to having them round for beer and sandwiches is that a sign of a cooling in the relationship between the two? 

For the avoidance of doubt and for the benefit of clarity, I like beer and I like sandwiches (but not tuna - yeuch). I'm not always keen on mail, unless it is a copy of the latest Thistle programme, as it can oftentimes mean bad news. 

Obviously you didn't read the Board Statement - we cant pay our Debts 

So there is No longer Money in the Budget for Beer & Sandwiches 

There is No Cooling of the Relationship - all that will happen is the Board now have to "send a letter" for TJF to say OK   

The Board having to be answerable to TJF is the Football equivalent of 

" being savaged by a dead sheep"  

Edited November 13 by Jordanhill Jag

[Jordanhill Jag]

Just now, Jag said:

So who does fund the academy?

Mainly a Private Individual & other Cash Raising Events - EG a Golf Day etc 

[Tom Hosie]

34 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Obviously you didn't read the Board Statement - we cant pay our Debts 

So there is No longer Money in the Budget for Beer & Sandwiches 

There is No Cooling of the Relationship - all that will happen is the Board now have to "send a letter" for TJF to say OK   

The Board having to be answerable to TJF is the Football equivalent of 

" being savaged by a dead sheep"  

My goodness, you actually replied to that. It is some form of online tourette's that you've got. 

[laukat]

46 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Obviously you didn't read the Board Statement - we cant pay our Debts 

So there is No longer Money in the Budget for Beer & Sandwiches 

There is No Cooling of the Relationship - all that will happen is the Board now have to "send a letter" for TJF to say OK   

The Board having to be answerable to TJF is the Football equivalent of 

" being savaged by a dead sheep"  

Might be a daft question - leaving aside the capability of TJF as it stands to make the board answerable which looks like a matter of opinion, who made boards prior to TJF's existence answerable?

I think its been mentioned  that you sat on a previous board. Who did that board answer to other than themselves?

 

[dl1971]

6 minutes ago, laukat said:

Might be a daft question - leaving aside the capability of TJF as it stands to make the board answerable which looks like a matter of opinion, who made boards prior to TJF's existence answerable?

I think its been mentioned  that you sat on a previous board. Who did that board answer to other than themselves?

 

Good question. Obviously not the plebs/fans. A small cabal of powerful shareholders who were indeed self interested. 

[javeajag]

15 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

Good question. Obviously not the plebs/fans. A small cabal of powerful shareholders who were indeed self interested. 

Jesus mate this isn’t succession it’s a very small football club 

[Lenziejag]

2 hours ago, javeajag said:

You don’t know then 

Pretty sure Raith are going to need some help from somewhere as their balance sheet shows that their current liabilities were nearly £1M higher than their current assets and Ayr were building that new stand. That’s not costing nothing !

[Lenziejag]

2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

For the avoidance of doubt - are you suggesting that we cannot reduce the Club overhead-  without cutting the Team Football Budget - and for the avoidance of doubt - I'm referring to the Football Team that plays at Firhill on a Saturday ?  

Of course we can and we would be nowhere near competing in this league on a regular basis.

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, Jag said:

This is what I would like to know. Venture Capitalists like to make money, so what is it that they see in Partick Thistle? This isn't fans with chequebooks we're talking about.

The 1st tranche was from 3 people.

[Jordanhill Jag]

8 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Of course we can and we would be nowhere near competing in this league on a regular basis.

Read what was stated - I said Non Footballing Overhead - ie are you suggesting we cannot make cuts outwith the Football Team Budget ( and by that I mean the Team that plays at Firhill on a Saturday )   

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, laukat said:

Might be a daft question - leaving aside the capability of TJF as it stands to make the board answerable which looks like a matter of opinion, who made boards prior to TJF's existence answerable?

I think its been mentioned  that you sat on a previous board. Who did that board answer to other than themselves?

 

They were answerable to the Shareholders ( same as they are now ) 

In similar circumstances ie the Club was Running out of Money - various Directors Resigned ( by there own volition) New Directors were appionted  

 Thats the Norm  

We have never been in a position with one dominate Shareholder calling the Shots and making the decisions 

 

[javeajag]

46 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Pretty sure Raith are going to need some help from somewhere as their balance sheet shows that their current liabilities were nearly £1M higher than their current assets and Ayr were building that new stand. That’s not costing nothing !

Phew that’s a relief … we can go bust as well and be happy yay !

[Lenziejag]

10 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Phew that’s a relief … we can go bust as well and be happy yay !

You can deflect as much as you want. You were inferring that Ayr and Raith were managing their finances better than we were and didn’t need extra support. 

[Jag]

1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

The 1st tranche was from 3 people.

I don't get your point, sorry.

[Jordanhill Jag]

57 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

You can deflect as much as you want. You were inferring that Ayr and Raith were managing their finances better than we were and didn’t need extra support. 

There additional cash came from there owners 

we are literally begging random Strangers to give us money 

and when it runs out -there is zero plan on how we finance the Club 

thats not a sustainable strategy 

[Albert's Ghost]

12 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

we are literally begging random Strangers to give us money 

Utter nonsense.

And it's "their" FFS.

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Read what was stated - I said Non Footballing Overhead - ie are you suggesting we cannot make cuts outwith the Football Team Budget ( and by that I mean the Team that plays at Firhill on a Saturday )   

 

It is hard to say - £2M of the £3M admin expenses were wage costs. I would guess that the majority of that is player wages and the non playing staff had already been cut by more than 1/4 from 21/22. So that leaves £1M of other admin costs. Without seeing how that is made up, again it is hard to know how much can be taken out of that.

[scotty]

8 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

It is hard to say - £2M of the £3M admin expenses were wage costs. I would guess that the majority of that is player wages and the non playing staff had already been cut by more than 1/4 from 21/22. So that leaves £1M of other admin costs. Without seeing how that is made up, again it is hard to know how much can be taken out of that.

I think you could probably make a guess at where some folk want the cuts to be made.

[Jordanhill Jag]

35 minutes ago, Albert's Ghost said:

Utter nonsense.

And it's "their" FFS.

So those making up Tranche 2 Investment are what exactly ? Whats there connection to PTFC ? 

[Jordanhill Jag]

20 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

It is hard to say - £2M of the £3M admin expenses were wage costs. I would guess that the majority of that is player wages and the non playing staff had already been cut by more than 1/4 from 21/22. So that leaves £1M of other admin costs. Without seeing how that is made up, again it is hard to know how much can be taken out of that.

So there in your opinion there are no other overheads that we can cut beyond staff wages ? 

there are no alternatives beyond the current strategy of burning through cash to the extent we cannot pay our debts ? 
 

[Jordanhill Jag]

13 minutes ago, scotty said:

I think you could probably make a guess at where some folk want the cuts to be made.

If your losing money to the extent that you cannot pay your debts you focus on the core essentials 

there are things you Need to do and then there are nice to haves - the second part is then dependant on available cash 

Im not sure why thats difficult ? 

[Albert's Ghost]

12 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So those making up Tranche 2 Investment are what exactly ? Whats there connection to PTFC ? 

Their connection to PTFC is through Donald McClymont, who is on the board of PTFC.  I thought you might know that. They are friends and business associates who have bought into Donald's vision, and are happy to chip in what is to them pretty much chickenfeed, with no expectation of a return on investment.

And it's "their" FFS.

[javeajag]

2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

You can deflect as much as you want. You were inferring that Ayr and Raith were managing their finances better than we were and didn’t need extra support. 

No I simply presented the facts that all three clubs had injections of £500k and we had the least cash in the bank to the extent we will lose £280k this year. You then speculate on what they might need it do but that’s speculation on your part.