Third Lanark Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Well it just so happens I can afford Sky TV, and I can afford to go to games, but I feel there is absolutely no value for money paying 17 quid to watch us on a mudheap attempting to stop the opposition from scoring rather than attempting to win the game most weeks, as well as a shocking standard of football on show. Whether people can afford it or not, can anyone justify that price at this level football? I had no interest in watching Barcelona v Arsenal last night for what its worth, infact I sat refreshing the official website every 5 minutes to keep in touch with updates from the game, just from what I've seen in the previous few games I was at, there was no value to be had in paying 17 quid for a freezing cold nights entertainment in front of a dire crowd. Not surprisingly when the crowd was at a near all time low, the punters on show got a rare return. Also I've no time for the guilt card. I love Partick Thistle, but when I feel I am not likely to get my monies worth, I'm quite happy to spend it on something else. Is this not something you could be saying of the last 7 seasons bar 2007-08 and 2008-09 though to be fair rather than just this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Well it just so happens I can afford Sky TV, and I can afford to go to games, but I feel there is absolutely no value for money paying 17 quid to watch us on a mudheap attempting to stop the opposition from scoring rather than attempting to win the game most weeks, as well as a shocking standard of football on show. Whether people can afford it or not, can anyone justify that price at this level football? I had no interest in watching Barcelona v Arsenal last night for what its worth, infact I sat refreshing the official website every 5 minutes to keep in touch with updates from the game, just from what I've seen in the previous few games I was at, there was no value to be had in paying 17 quid for a freezing cold nights entertainment in front of a dire crowd. Not surprisingly when the crowd was at a near all time low, the punters on show got a rare return. Also I've no time for the guilt card. I love Partick Thistle, but when I feel I am not likely to get my monies worth, I'm quite happy to spend it on something else. Out of interest what price at the gate on Tuesday night would have tempted you out to the match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie inglis Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Hang on a sec. If I didn't go last night I wouldn't have been watching Barcelona v Arsenal. As far as I'm aware the game was on subscription tv, something I can't afford. I could of course afford Sky TV if I didn't spend money on following the Jags. Now I'm not trying the holier than thou stuff but I do tho' think I've got my priorities in the correct order. Anyone can complain about gate prices but can still fork out however much it is a month for a satellite tv subscription. That's fair enough. Just don't come on here pleading poverty and complaining about pricing. Btw that's not particularly aimed at above poster just more of a general observation. I'm sick and tired of hearing about gate pricing being too dear and if it was lower so and so would turn up. If gate prices were significantly cheaper this so and so could then perhaps afford a Sky TV package. I cant afford sky tv, but the casino in town (glassford street) has free football, big screen, free tea coffee Irn bru and coke.....Now I have never gambled in a casino in my life, but I will happily sit in one for free to watch the football on a big sofa! So before you have a go find out where I watched the game.. A casino (nothing spent) A friends house An online stream (Bad I know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie inglis Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I agree wholeheartedly with this. I looked for the Arsenal score after the game out of interest, but there's no way i'd be watching another team on TV if my team was playing, and I could make it along. I understand that I am perhaps lucky in the sense that I have a 9-5.30 monday-friday job and live 15mins drive from Firhill. But if people actually think they have the choice and they decide not to go along to watch Thistle, well ... I honestly cant understand that. I work 3 stops on the tube from firhill. and maybe about 45 mins on the bus home after the game. The idea of spending my hard earned to sit in the cold and dreich and watching thistle no longer excites me. can it be long before first division football is £20 a game (if not at firhill at some grounds). There needs to be a big change in how much players are paid etc to bring costs down. then if its 10 quid to get in its no big deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie inglis Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Out of interest what price at the gate on Tuesday night would have tempted you out to the match? 8-10 quid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagscast Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 8-10 quid So...£9 then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie inglis Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 So...£9 then? anywhere in that bracket 10 quid is fine do other jags fans think that 17 quid represents value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I have a season ticket and really couldn't be bothered going on Tuesday but did out of a sense of obligation (I follow Arsenal as my 'big team' and a game against Barca on the sofa in the warmth with a couple of bottles of beer was incredibly tempting). 3 of my mates have season tickets, only 1 of them wanted to attend on Tuesday. The other 2 opted to stay at home and watch the Arsenal game, they couldn't give their season tickets away to any of our other Jag mates who don't have season tickets but attend semi-regularly. It's not just cost, I budget to blow a fiarly large percentage of my wage at weekends which invariably involves the Jags. But I've been to less away games this year because I've had what I perceive as 'better options' (in the past there were far fewer 'better options' than there are now). A lot of the people I go with don't want to be shelling out the money it costs or have thier own 'better options' as well. Beyond the price it just isn't that much fun playing the same teams so often, going to the same grounds so often, sitting in empty stands so often, watching turgid football so often, failing to create an atmosphere so often, feeling the players aren't trying so often, sitting in the cold so often, etc. Something massive is going to happen in Scottish football soon, it simply can't go on the way it is at any level. What that will be I dread to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie inglis Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I have a season ticket and really couldn't be bothered going on Tuesday but did out of a sense of obligation (I follow Arsenal as my 'big team' and a game against Barca on the sofa in the warmth with a couple of bottles of beer was incredibly tempting). 3 of my mates have season tickets, only 1 of them wanted to attend on Tuesday. The other 2 opted to stay at home and watch the Arsenal game, they couldn't give their season tickets away to any of our other Jag mates who don't have season tickets but attend semi-regularly. It's not just cost, I budget to blow a fiarly large percentage of my wage at weekends which invariably involves the Jags. But I've been to less away games this year because I've had what I perceive as 'better options' (in the past there were far fewer 'better options' than there are now). A lot of the people I go with don't want to be shelling out the money it costs or have thier own 'better options' as well. Beyond the price it just isn't that much fun playing the same teams so often, going to the same grounds so often, sitting in empty stands so often, watching turgid football so often, failing to create an atmosphere so often, feeling the players aren't trying so often, sitting in the cold so often, etc. Something massive is going to happen in Scottish football soon, it simply can't go on the way it is at any level. What that will be I dread to think. If all the clubs outwith the top two stopped cutting each others throats and just had a wage cap 500 a week in prem 250 in first etc (with money made up with bonuses) then costs would drop, prices would drop attendences would rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 do other jags fans think that 17 quid represents value? No. But then I believe that just about everything (in this country) is overpriced: food, travel, accommodation, clothes, even drink. So football is not really that different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 I have a season ticket and really couldn't be bothered going on Tuesday but did out of a sense of obligation (I follow Arsenal as my 'big team' and a game against Barca on the sofa in the warmth with a couple of bottles of beer was incredibly tempting). 3 of my mates have season tickets, only 1 of them wanted to attend on Tuesday. The other 2 opted to stay at home and watch the Arsenal game, they couldn't give their season tickets away to any of our other Jag mates who don't have season tickets but attend semi-regularly. It's not just cost, I budget to blow a fiarly large percentage of my wage at weekends which invariably involves the Jags. But I've been to less away games this year because I've had what I perceive as 'better options' (in the past there were far fewer 'better options' than there are now). A lot of the people I go with don't want to be shelling out the money it costs or have thier own 'better options' as well. Beyond the price it just isn't that much fun playing the same teams so often, going to the same grounds so often, sitting in empty stands so often, watching turgid football so often, failing to create an atmosphere so often, feeling the players aren't trying so often, sitting in the cold so often, etc. Something massive is going to happen in Scottish football soon, it simply can't go on the way it is at any level. What that will be I dread to think. Pretty much agree with this. Scottish football has to think beyond the Old Firm and realise the vast majority of fans are bored shitless playing the same teams 4+ times a year. Top league of 18 teams , let each team figure out what it can afford , if it means paying players less then go for it. Max price of £20 a game , kids under 16 free , OAP , 16-21 for £10. Let the OF market their derby games , take 20% for the pool they keep the rest. Rest of the TV is split equally. All good , lets start next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOVAN JAG Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 anywhere in that bracket 10 quid is fine do other jags fans think that 17 quid represents value? I think £17 is a scandal to be honest. It should be no more than a tenner for First division football. I still pay my £17 though not happy about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Firstly a genuine thank you to the true supporters who were at the game on Tuesday night - you are keeping my team alive...ya dafties Like most people just now I don't have much spare cash so I've only been to a few games over the last two seasons. However, I wouldn't have thought of going to see the Queen of the South game even if admission had been free. A good number of season ticket holders made a similar choice on Tuesday, they didn't go even though they had already paid. I don't have Sky but I did listen to the Barcelona v Arsenal game on Radio 5 while checking the Official Site for score updates from Firhill. If I had wanted to watch football on Tuesday night I would probably have gone to a pub rather than sit frozen at Firhill. I only really cared about Thistle's result though. I'm not convinced that playing the same teams so regularly is such a significant factor in declining attendances. We haven't played Queen of the South at Firhill since last May. We have had one League game at home against Cowdenbeath since 1938 - would Firhill be packed for the novelty of a rare visit by the Blue Brazil? Undoubtedly, the general economic situation, the ready availability of top-quality football on tv and the monotony of repetitive fixtures put people off. However, the two main issues for me are firstly the poor quality of "the product" - punt and chase football on poor pitches in freezing weather; and secondly, I'm just not that interested in nothing-at-stake games - we won't be promoted and are very unlikely to be relegated. In my view a 16 team top League would mean a full season of meaningless games for most teams - I don't think that's the solution. What odds would you want for a bet on any team other than Rangers or Celtic winning the League? I don't think I'd take a punt at 1,000/1...unless they enforce that rule about deducting points for sectarian songs. There have to be radical changes...don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 How about this? Away fans in the traditional "home end" of the J.H. - £17 Home fans at the canal end of the J.H. - £ 17 The two sets of supporters seperated by corporate hospitality taking up the two sections of seating either side of the halfway line in the J.H. Home fans in the canal end wee diddy behind the goal stand - £ 10 Home and away supporters, segregated (opposing ends) family sections in the old stand. All adults must be accompanied by children. - Each adult - £12(due to possible restricted view), Kids go free. O.A.P. - £5 (with or without accompanying child) All concessions apply to Main(old) stand only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Tierney's tackle Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 36 points to play for and season ticket holders can't be arsed going to the game. Talk of "safety" in Div1 is depressing for so many reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernsoul Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 How about this? Away fans in the traditional "home end" of the J.H. - £17 Home fans at the canal end of the J.H. - £ 17 The two sets of supporters seperated by corporate hospitality taking up the two sections of seating either side of the halfway line in the J.H. Home fans in the canal end wee diddy behind the goal stand - £ 10 Home and away supporters, segregated (opposing ends) family sections in the old stand. All adults must be accompanied by children. - Each adult - £12(due to possible restricted view), Kids go free. O.A.P. - £5 (with or without accompanying child) All concessions apply to Main(old) stand only. I've been thinking about the layout of the ground. The best I could ever see it becoming, currently would be the kids section moved behind the goal. The away fans moved to Section 6-8 or 7-8 and the singing section moved back into the middle of the JHS. Dig out the old NTL banner and use that to separate each set of supporters. I know that this subject was going to be looked into through the summer but alas he is no longer a board member of PTFC thanks to those who have run the club at a loss for years. Obviously there are other obstacles in the way of it happening, the yellow seats, season ticket holders in the middle of the JHS and whether the crowd on the day would be big enough to have the kid section in the North Stand, when we can save money by only opening the JHS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) Harsh reality is we only need the Jackie Husband stand. Edit: and at a lot of games now, we wouldn't even fill the North Stand.... Edited March 11, 2011 by Woodstock Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 at a lot of games now, we wouldn't even fill the North Stand.... At a capacity of 2014(?) how many games in the last 3 years would have seen us struggle to fill said stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) At a capacity of 2014(?) how many games in the last 3 years would have seen us struggle to fill said stand. The operative word being "now". Let's just go through all the games this season where the attendance has been within 30 of the North Stand official capacity, shall we? Saturday 24th July - Clyde (Challenge Cup) - 1759 Saturday 10th August - Berwick Rangers (Challenge Cup) - 931 Tuesday 24th August - Falkirk (League Cup) - 1619 Saturday 4th September - Ayr United (QF Alba Cup) - 1831 Saturday 11th September - Stirling Albion - 1994 Saturday 30th October - Cowdenbeath - 1841 Saturday 11th December - Ross County - 1509 Sunday 26th December - Raith Rovers - 2036 Saturday 15th January - Stirling Albion - 1749 Tuesday 18th January - Falkirk (Scottish Cup Replay) - 2024 Tuesday 8th March - Queen of the South - 1001 Which gives us 11 of the 17 competitive fixtures at Firhill this season "struggling" and 9 of them "failing". 7 of 12 league fixtures "struggling" and 5 "failing". Highest Crowd: 2801 (Dundee) Average Crowd in league this season: 2152 For comparison purposes, the average attendance last season was 2636, the highest crowd was 4453 against Dundee, we had 7 games with a crowd higher than this season's highest in the league, and only 4 league games under 2200 (one of which was televised) and only one league game under 1500 (1151 midweek against Raith Rovers in April). We also had two League Cup and one Challenge Cup fixture at Firhill: 1472 v Berwick, 1527 v QOTS and 1746 v ICT. Edited March 11, 2011 by Woodstock Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 well, i suppose the word now can be taken in many ways. Like history itself! As much as i love your stats, they only cover this season. and they are blurred into the beyond! The McCall era is probably the bench mark... hence my time scale. but... i love how the first 4 games (of 11) you list, were all cup games, 3 of which were alba cup games. taking the other 7... the raith game doean't count as the attendance was higher than the north stand! so thats 6 games: 2 were midweek games, one a replay against a team we will play 7 times this year, the other against a team on a shitter of a night when barca played arsenal. that leaves 4 games you could debate: Saturday 11th September - Stirling Albion - 1994 Saturday 30th October - Cowdenbeath - 1841 Saturday 11th December - Ross County - 1509 Saturday 15th January - Stirling Albion - 1749 3 of those are against the 2 promoted teams, one dying on it's arse the other a speedway supporting joke team. leaving county, 2 weeks before christmas! case solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 well, i suppose the word now can be taken in many ways. Like history itself! As much as i love your stats, they only cover this season. and they are blurred into the beyond! The McCall era is probably the bench mark... hence my time scale. And my remark when I used the word "now" referred quite specifically to MY timescale, which was this season and if the trend continues, likely beyond. but... i love how the first 4 games (of 11) you list, were all cup games, 3 of which were alba cup games. And they suddenly don't "count" as games then? taking the other 7... the raith game doean't count as the attendance was higher than the north stand! The question you asked was for occasions when we would have "struggled" to fill the North Stand. I provided you with those where we failed to fill it and a couple where we barely exceeded it. Stop shifting the goalposts. so thats 6 games: 2 were midweek games, one a replay against a team we will play 7 times this year, the other against a team on a shitter of a night when barca played arsenal. So what? Midweek games are still real games. They still count. Just because Barca are playing doesn't somehow mean that Thistle are excused from having to have 2000 at a football match to fit your argument. that leaves 4 games you could debate: Saturday 11th September - Stirling Albion - 1994 Saturday 30th October - Cowdenbeath - 1841 Saturday 11th December - Ross County - 1509 Saturday 15th January - Stirling Albion - 1749 3 of those are against the 2 promoted teams, one dying on it's arse the other a speedway supporting joke team. leaving county, 2 weeks before christmas! case solved. The 3 against promoted teams - so what? Last season only ONE GAME at Firhill in the league failed to get past 2100 and it was a midweek right at the very end of the season. This season we're only in March and have 6 home games left and yet already we have 5 games that have failed to hit 2024 and another 2 in the league that barely make it. The two weeks around Christmas thing also does not follow. Last season our last home game before Christmas took in 4453 fans and the Boxing Day game took in 2766. The season before that the figures are 2292 and 2465. The season before that the December figures were 2388, 2176 and 3611, followed by a New Year game bumper of 3299. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 http://www.qosfc.com/qostvauto.aspx Queen of the South website has the highlights up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) Boyle at fault for Queens goal not Fox. I don’t think the ball went over the line, though it is close. Nice highlights. Would not surprise me to see an English team come in for Fox an end of the season. Edited March 11, 2011 by Alan Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Boyle at fault for Queens goal not Fox. I don’t think the ball went over the line, though it is close. Nice highlights. Would not surprise me to see an English team come in for Fox an end of the season. I think any talk of that is a little premature, though the fact he will have 2 years left on his contract would come in very handy if someone did come in for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Firstly a genuine thank you to the true supporters who were at the game on Tuesday night - you are keeping my team alive...ya dafties Like most people just now I don't have much spare cash so I've only been to a few games over the last two seasons. However, I wouldn't have thought of going to see the Queen of the South game even if admission had been free. A good number of season ticket holders made a similar choice on Tuesday, they didn't go even though they had already paid. I don't have Sky but I did listen to the Barcelona v Arsenal game on Radio 5 while checking the Official Site for score updates from Firhill. If I had wanted to watch football on Tuesday night I would probably have gone to a pub rather than sit frozen at Firhill. I only really cared about Thistle's result though. I'm not convinced that playing the same teams so regularly is such a significant factor in declining attendances. We haven't played Queen of the South at Firhill since last May. We have had one League game at home against Cowdenbeath since 1938 - would Firhill be packed for the novelty of a rare visit by the Blue Brazil? Undoubtedly, the general economic situation, the ready availability of top-quality football on tv and the monotony of repetitive fixtures put people off. However, the two main issues for me are firstly the poor quality of "the product" - punt and chase football on poor pitches in freezing weather; and secondly, I'm just not that interested in nothing-at-stake games - we won't be promoted and are very unlikely to be relegated. In my view a 16 team top League would mean a full season of meaningless games for most teams - I don't think that's the solution. What odds would you want for a bet on any team other than Rangers or Celtic winning the League? I don't think I'd take a punt at 1,000/1...unless they enforce that rule about deducting points for sectarian songs. There have to be radical changes...don't see it happening. Some excellent points there. But I'd take issue with any suggestion that a 16-team league would somehow have more meaningless games than a 10- or 12-team league where teams play each other 4 times each season. It's only the h*ns or tims who are likely to win the league whatever the format, so at least 16 or even 18 teams would give some novelty over 4 Motherwell-Killie matches (for example) which are as meaningless as you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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