honved Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Let me get this straight, our support are being monitored by an anti sectarian unit at the request of the 2 bastions of sectarianism in this country because we sing a song that encourages not using religion as a basis for following a football team. I'd LOVE to see that one stand up in court. The world has finally gone mad. It means that although the lunatics are making a good play for taking charge of the asylum, they are losing ground, rapidly. NOW is the time for Thistle fans to stop singing this song, on the basis that we can sing whatever else we want, but will not do anything, anything at all, that might, in whatever cuckoo lala land that other people may inhabit, implicate or insinuate OUR CLUB in Scotland's shame. We stop now, we make it known why we are stopping now and we leave the vain attempts of those apologies for football clubs to tar US with their manky brush, shredded and bleeding at the side of the road. OK? Edited September 12, 2011 by honved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 NOW is the time for Thistle fans to stop singing this song, on the basis that we can sing whatever else we want, but will not do anything, anything at all, that might, in whatever cuckoo lala land that other people may inhabit, implicate or insinuate OUR CLUB in Scotland's shame. We stop now, we make it known why we are stopping now and we leave the vain attempts of those apologies for football clubs to tar US with their manky brush, shredded and bleeding at the side of the road. ^ sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandbank boy Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 It means that although the lunatics are making a good play for taking charge of the asylum, they are losing ground, rapidly. NOW is the time for Thistle fans to stop singing this song, on the basis that we can sing whatever else we want, but will not do anything, anything at all, that might, in whatever cuckoo lala land that other people may inhabit, implicate or insinuate OUR CLUB in Scotland's shame. We stop now, we make it known why we are stopping now and we leave the vain attempts of those apologies for football clubs to tar US with their manky brush, shredded and bleeding at the side of the road. OK? Best comment on here for a long time. Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas clark Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) I am obviously in a minority. It is perfectly clear that freedom of speech issues are a bit more important to me and a bit pathetic to most of the Thistle support. As evidenced by Sandbank Boy, Dark Passenger and, apparently, Honved. Doing the ususal - if I won the lottery - I would argue in any court in the land, that f**k the Pope and f**k the Queen is an entirely political statement. I would win. 'Cause it clearly is. But you need the money. Which is probably why Sandbank Boy, Dark Passenger and Honved just lurve their negativity. They are not wrong, they are just lacking money and are just a tad majoritarian.... Or short as planks. Edited September 12, 2011 by douglas clark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honved Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I am obviously in a minority. It is perfectly clear that freedom of speech issues are a bit more important to me and a bit pathetic to most of the Thistle support. As evidenced by Sandbank Boy, Dark Passenger and, apparently, Honved. Doing the ususal - if I won the lottery - I would argue in any court in the land, that f**k the Pope and f**k the Queen is an entirely political statement. I would win. Freedom of expression works both ways. I want the freedom to live in a country where I don't have to think twice about what school that I went to. To achieve that freedom, I'll happily sacrifice the right to sing a song that some people, not me, may think has sectarian connotations. That's a very, very small price to pay for anyone who is serious about getting rid of this disgusting sectarian habit that Scotland has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I am obviously in a minority. It is perfectly clear that freedom of speech issues are a bit more important to me and a bit pathetic to most of the Thistle support. As evidenced by Sandbank Boy, Dark Passenger and, apparently, Honved. Doing the ususal - if I won the lottery - I would argue in any court in the land, that f**k the Pope and f**k the Queen is an entirely political statement. I would win. FTP and FTQ I would argue are not political, FYP and FYP are. For what it's worth, I've never been that big a fan of the song anyway, not due to the perception that is is 'double sectarian', but I just don't think it's that good a song, so I wouldn't be bothered if we stopped singing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruchillnomore Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I really dont care about going down the Freedom of Speech thing though I do agree strongly that this song should be sung and when it is just make sure that there are plenty of people about you as will clearly be seen by the ugly sisters this weekend. This is justy a case of supporters from other clubs o/s the ugly sisters being the easy target as has happened so far this season. We will see this Sunday how may people actually are arrested for so called sectarian singing inside the stadium. As for the ugly sisters brining it up in March surely there must have been someone at the so called summit who may have either laughed or come out with so many wee ditties such as"People in glass houses should not throw stones" " ye without sin cast the first stone or my favourite "shut up and dont be so stupid" I for one who has followed Thistle for many a year will continue to sing it as Im not being dictated to by a pair of backward country cousins whose roots are deeply entrenched way over the Irish Sea or by loving some German hand me down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas clark Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Freedom of expression works both ways. I want the freedom to live in a country where I don't have to think twice about what school that I went to. To achieve that freedom, I'll happily sacrifice the right to sing a song that some people, not me, may think has sectarian connotations. That's a very, very small price to pay for anyone who is serious about getting rid of this disgusting sectarian habit that Scotland has. No, it isn't. The minute you give up the right to express yourself - and please don't mess with me on 'Fire' in theatres - you lose the right to express yourself. I repeat, f**k the Pope and f**k the Queen is a political statement , not a sectarian one. It seems to me that that ought to matter? Apparently not. Being disgusting little chums with the 'Old Firm' is apparently what we are about now. Oh! Joy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honved Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I really dont care about going down the Freedom of Speech thing though I do agree strongly that this song should be sung and when it is just make sure that there are plenty of people about you as will clearly be seen by the ugly sisters this weekend. This is justy a case of supporters from other clubs o/s the ugly sisters being the easy target as has happened so far this season. We will see this Sunday how may people actually are arrested for so called sectarian singing inside the stadium. As for the ugly sisters brining it up in March surely there must have been someone at the so called summit who may have either laughed or come out with so many wee ditties such as"People in glass houses should not throw stones" " ye without sin cast the first stone or my favourite "shut up and dont be so stupid" I for one who has followed Thistle for many a year will continue to sing it as Im not being dictated to by a pair of backward country cousins whose roots are deeply entrenched way over the Irish Sea or by loving some German hand me down Nobody is dictating anything to any Thistle fans, least of all those sectarian numbnuts at Ibrox and Celtic Park. The point is that by choosing NOT to sing it, the "backward country cousins" will have NO EXCUSE, NONE WHATSOEVER, NOT EVEN A SHRED OF AN EXCUSE, NOT AN IOTA that would involve finger pointing of any sort in OUR direction. Stopping singing that song is not a negative thing, it's a positive. It cuts "them" adrift from us, as far as they can possibly be. Do you really feel that singing the song, being arrested for it and pleading not guilty to a sectarian offence and then testing your case in court, is the most effective way of dealing with this? All you would be doing is reinforcing the idea that some songs that mention the Pope and the Queen might be sectarian and others not - the very thing that "they" want. Don't give them that excuse. Lay aside your freedom to sing what you feel you are entitled to for the greater good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honved Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) No, it isn't. The minute you give up the right to express yourself - and please don't mess with me on 'Fire' in theatres - you lose the right to express yourself. I repeat, f**k the Pope and f**k the Queen is a political statement , not a sectarian one. It seems to me that that ought to matter? Apparently not. Being disgusting little chums with the 'Old Firm' is apparently what we are about now. Oh! Joy! It's the opposite of that... Edited to add I'm away to lie down. Edited September 12, 2011 by honved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruchillnomore Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 There is no greater good in this......The old firm will continue to sing their songs and will continue to go unpunished by the SFA/SPL. Only UEFA have shown that they will act on the singing/violence. As has been clearly shown recently in court even before an audience of hundreds of thousands you still cant get a conviction. With that said it will be a couple of Thistle fans or supporters of any other club who sing against the old firm who will appear in court. By not singing the song does not stand us apart..... becuase of the ugly sisters all of Scottish football is tainted by their disease as is shown by Media coverage around the world by their reaction to last seasons events on and off the field. The time to judge all of the furore about this is next Monday when the figures will be released as to how many people wre arrested for sectarian singing inside the ground.......obviously they 6, 7 or 8 people have really strong voices to sound like thousands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vom Itorium Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 It means that although the lunatics are making a good play for taking charge of the asylum, they are losing ground, rapidly. NOW is the time for Thistle fans to stop singing this song, on the basis that we can sing whatever else we want, but will not do anything, anything at all, that might, in whatever cuckoo lala land that other people may inhabit, implicate or insinuate OUR CLUB in Scotland's shame. We stop now, we make it known why we are stopping now and we leave the vain attempts of those apologies for football clubs to tar US with their manky brush, shredded and bleeding at the side of the road. OK? Totally agree. The song has to go now before we give the cretins that have dragged us into their shame a 'We told you so' moment. To think of the OF running off to the polis to grass us up for belittling their vile take on life is astonishing. For the polis to fall for it even more so. Anyway, let's bury the song in the history vault of PTFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Whatever point you think you're making when you sing it, that's not what the rest of the (sane?) world hears. If you want to indulge yourself and at the same time drag Thistle into a shitstorm, keep singing it. If you actually care about the club, do them a favour and button it. Life isn't fair. That's another part you might have to learn to accept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Looks like the time to drop it voluntarily rather than wait for the inevitable. Cynic in me says that with a polis squad now specially set up they'll be looking to justify their existence. Cynic in me also senses they'll go for soft targets and not the chronic perpetrators from elsewhere in the city. As an aside I can't see how the song itself could be described as sectarian, so if folk have to stick a label on it then I can see where they could tag it political. For all I know even just discussing the rights and wrongs on a forum could be playing into the hands of the knuckledraggers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 You'll struggle to find more of an advocate of unfettered free speech than me, but I think we'd do better to express the same sentiment in other ways. The whole problem with the sectarian debate is that people focus on the words rather than the meaning and we risk things getting lost in translation. Much as we'd like the discussion to take place on a more intelligent and more political level it's not going to happen. If the debate were taking place on that level the sectarian problem wouldn't be what it is. If ever a Thistle supporter were hauled up before a Sheriff for singing it, I think it would probably be dismissed out of hand as ill-advised but no more. But is it really worth taking that chance to make a point we could do so much less provocatively? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Time to bin the song , its had its time and while the sentiment is 100% correct I wouldnt want to see any Jags fan getting the jail over it. What we really need is one of our more wordy posters to write a email we can all send to Strathclydes finest urging them to make sure that the OF fans get the same treatment that some of our fans got at Dingwall. Unfortunately my attempt was covered in swearwords which wouldve probably got me the jail so I never sent it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 It is time to bin FTPFTQ. Partick Thistle's main selling point is that we are a family club. That is why MacB have invested heavily in sponsoring our club. We must be seen to oppose sectarianism vigorously by eliminating it from Firhill especially. In fact, I would go further and try to eliminate bad language and loutish behaviour. Parents must be able to bring their children to our games without them being subjected to offensive songs and bad language. If not, our "kids go free" initiative is worthless. In fact, I would go further and give free tickets to teachers to bring their pupils. Firhill is for thrills not hate. Let's set an example to the Ugly Sisters by opposing their bigots with ridicule and humour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 It is time to bin FTPFTQ. Partick Thistle's main selling point is that we are a family club. That is why MacB have invested heavily in sponsoring our club. We must be seen to oppose sectarianism vigorously by eliminating it from Firhill especially. In fact, I would go further and try to eliminate bad language and loutish behaviour. Parents must be able to bring their children to our games without them being subjected to offensive songs and bad language. If not, our "kids go free" initiative is worthless. In fact, I would go further and give free tickets to teachers to bring their pupils. Firhill is for thrills not hate. Let's set an example to the Ugly Sisters by opposing their bigots with ridicule and humour. We had a smaller debate on this a month or two ago and one thing needs to be cleared up right here. It is NOT fcuk THE it's fcuk YOUR, always has been and that for me makes the difference. It is a political message rather than a sectarian one. Still, the goalposts have been moved (probably in order to justify the action that needs to be taken against the old firm) and we are an easy target. As people have already mentioned on here, what others (outsiders if you prefer, but even our own fans still think it's FTP & FTQ) hear is bigoted and bringing religion into football. I'd like the song to remain, but for that one line to be changed....suggestions on what that could be would be good. This is not an admission of guilt regarding sectarianism, I don't believe the song is sectarian but 'in the eyes of the law' we WILL get tarred with the same brush as the knobs we share a city with. It's not worth the consequences should a few of us ge jailed, imagine the publicity - imagine the shame that would be associated with our 'family friendly' club - imagine the OF fans thinking they have a mandate to say "see, it's not just us". Personally speaking, if I was 'done' with a trumped up charge of sectarian hatred (or whatever it's to be) it's effectively career over before it's even begun...just not worth it. So, finish this - we hate the boys in royal blue, we hate the boys in emerald green so....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Personally I think there is too much deference to religious organisations and royalty so I like our song for similar reasons that I dislike God Save the Queen... plus the National Anthem is a dirge with an anti-Scottish sentiment in one of the obscure verses. We have sung this song for as long as I can remember - and although I haven't been to a game between Thistle and either half of the Old Firm for years because I found the whole atmosphere posionous , back in the 70's we always tried to shout down any non-football songs from their repertoire. My recollection of my Criminal Law course from many years ago is that under Scottish Law just about anything can be a Breach of the Peace - I'm sure we were referred to a case where a member of the Salvation Army was done for playing a cornet. I also remember a Police Officer at the Terry Butcher/Frank McAvennie Trial from a few years back being asked in court if he had observed any conduct amounting to a breach of the peace, dryly replying that there was an ongoing breach of the peace in the stadium throughout the whole of the match. So I'm pretty sure that any Thistle fan who sang either version of the words might well be found guilty of breach of the peace and probably in the present climate with the aggravated sectarian element. The new legislation will no doubt throw up some interesting legal arguments - Ned 1 "Up the 'RA" Ned 2 "Ya Fen**n B*****d" One of them is making a political statement, the other committing an aggravated sectarian offence. They are both bawbags and I don't want to have to listen to that stuff in football grounds. My own view is that Scotland doesn't really have a serious problem with sectarianism outwith Old Firm tribalism. Unless any Thistle fan is up for being a test case and potential martyrdom, I think we have to accept the reality that we can't allow the Club to be drawn into this argument. Edited September 12, 2011 by Winter of '63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggyThistle Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 So, finish this - we hate the boys in royal blue, we hate the boys in emerald green so....... we hate the boys in royal blue, we hate the boys in emerald green.... We're Glasgow's ONLY fitba' team.... Non-sweary and everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 we hate the boys in royal blue, we hate the boys in emerald green.... We're Glasgow's ONLY fitba' team.... Non-sweary and everything but what do we do when Queens Park take offense Here's a thought, when Queen of the South sing that song "queens", will we be done for treason for shouting "shite" in response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Parents must be able to bring their children to our games without them being subjected to offensive songs and bad language. Completely agree. It's indeed a sad reflection on modern society when parents can't control their kid's language. but what do we do when Queens Park take offense Ah, that would be an ecumenical matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 ...we hate the boys in emerald green, ya showera cavemen you're obscene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandbank boy Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I am obviously in a minority. It is perfectly clear that freedom of speech issues are a bit more important to me and a bit pathetic to most of the Thistle support. As evidenced by Sandbank Boy, Dark Passenger and, apparently, Honved. Doing the ususal - if I won the lottery - I would argue in any court in the land, that f**k the Pope and f**k the Queen is an entirely political statement. I would win. 'Cause it clearly is. But you need the money. Which is probably why Sandbank Boy, Dark Passenger and Honved just lurve their negativity. They are not wrong, they are just lacking money and are just a tad majoritarian.... Or short as planks. Whether it is political or sectarian is irrelevant as singing about effin the Pope and effin the Queen has nothing to do with MY football team and if I am a 'tad majoritarian' so what? It's the minority who have given this country it's small minded backward reputation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 We had a smaller debate on this a month or two ago and one thing needs to be cleared up right here. It is NOT fcuk THE it's fcuk YOUR, always has been and that for me makes the difference. It is a political message rather than a sectarian one. The problem is that the key words are ****, pope and queen and not whether it's "the" or "your" I'm not convinced by the "it's a political message" either. Being of a debating persuasion (and the need to be able to argue whichever side you might be presented with) it's not too difficult to create a defence for both sides of the OF on the same grounds. None of which would make the slightest difference to the need to rid our society of such stuff in the here and now. We're just playing the same game as they are in seeking a reason to continue singing this song. Bin it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.