lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 So if it's a choice between Sevco and Paedophile Athletic then who would you support Well to be purely selfish, my kids are grown up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAWB Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Bottom line noone should take pro Sevco bullying or blackmail from any source. They are a dead duck for the foreseeable future. It's getting a bit like trying to re-house a convicted sex attacker. Do we put them next to the school? No. Next to the swing park? No. We place in the countryside or seaside under close supervision? Yes! Cos no families or kids ever go to the seaside right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metzmagic Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Are we forgetting this is not the punishment... It's a new team applying to join the league ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 If automatic promotion and your own TV deal is a punishment, you have to wish they'd come down on us like a ton of bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 the board's statements have come from a business point of view and running a solvent successful club is their remit. What i would like to know is do they have their fingers on the pulse of the Thistle support (and even wider and united views of 95% of football supporters across the country), and up to half of these who are indicating/threatening to walk away from their respective clubs and the game for ever? Have they factored in this scenario as to how their balance sheet(s) would be impacted, and to what differing degrees, if the club suffered (for instance) 5%, 10%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 33%, 40% or even (potentially) worse-case scenario 50% or more fall in average attendance? For that is a very real possibility. Especially those clubs who either side with the Yes to Deadco in SFL1 camp, or are not clear and explicit in their views publically to where they stand or which way they vote over Deadco. They could be the biggest losers in all of this. Lose Integrity ==> Lose Fans If our PTFC Board showed to us that Integrity mattered then I'm pretty sure it would bolster support for this club and maybe win us some new fans who would admire us. Exactly. Either Attendances or accumulated Income and thus Balance sheets of SFL clubs (and even those in the SPL) could actually improve if the clubs side with the views of their supports. Football could actually enjoy a rebirth and improved health and longerterm be more sustainable a business if the clubs follow the rules and apply them without fear or favour, and do not favour one club just because of bullying, scaremongering and falsehoods, and actually put faith in their paying customers (lapsed, current and potential). it's not rocket science, yet still we find many of our chairmen, directors and football authorities heads still stuck up in the dark sides arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Cos no families or kids ever go to the seaside right Its more a half-baked analogy that they should start in the seaside leagues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) the board's statements have come from a business point of view and running a solvent successful club is their remit. Do they really? Other clubs the opposite - even taking the "integrity" thing out of the equation - that Newco is a disaster waiting to happen (all sorts of investigations and legal challenges likely) and could implode half way through the season. I wouldn't call that good business sense. Even bad for Div 3 though that wouldn't be Thistle's problem. It would be pragmatic (arguing the business point of view) to drop them into Div 3 as we'd get their gate money eventually if they succeed and we miss the ruptions if they fail. The honest and fair thing to do, (as well as the safest) would be to tell them it's too late, apply next year if there's a space. Any deal regards extra SPL places or play-offs would have to be made so quickly it would bound to be full of flaws and get-outs for the SPL. Drop them into the 3rd and then negotiate for next year with the offer of letting them skip a place. (One option suggested already gives SPL 2 votes to SFL one, so you see how trustworthy they are). Now I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, in fact I'd be against it but it's a pragmatic, business minded option that takes pros and cons into consideration. What's that you say? The board are experienced businessmen? Yeah but plenty of businessmen down the years have acted in an unbusinesslike manner when it comes to football. Of course maybe they do intend to vote NO regardless - I wish they were much clearer on this - but my point is, there is the integrity thing but it isn't just intergity versus business sense, there is a pragmatic argument to go with the integrity one.. Why vote for a fix when the fix might blow up in your face? Edited July 11, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Drop them into the 3rd and then negotiate for next year with the offer of letting them skip a place. (One option suggested already gives SPL 2 votes to SFL one, so you see how trustworthy they are). If, as the vast majority wish, newco to be allowed to play in the 3rd Div. then I can still see them being in the 2nd tier the following season (13/14). Those clubs needing them to return to the top tier will get them back after a two year absence instead of the three. Those clubs/fans only wishing to see sporting integrity shouldn't be upset. I can't envisage any league set up that wouldn't be broadly welcome to most clubs and certainly most fans if the powers that be organised their jiggery pockery for season 13/14. In other words they'll get their precious sevco returned a year early and we'll have done away with one tier of senior football. Some may but I don't even see that as a compromise. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Peebles Tackle Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 This is getting boring! The fact remains that even if Newco were to be in Div 3, it's STILL AGAINST THE RULES! Maybe someone should point that out? They don't have 3 years accounts and the fact it's even being entertained at such a late stage is beyond me. IF they go into Div 3 then I suppose I could just about understand it (not support it), but a 'club' that can't meet the entry requirements for Div 3 should NEVER be allowed to skip into Div 1. I don't see this being over by Friday (wish it was, but I just don't see it) and as per usual, everybody else has to suffer because of the OF (or whatever they're now called). Time for decisive action or we won't be playing the Ramsden's Cup games in a couple of weeks, let alone starting the season proper in time. Anyway, at least I've booked flights for the Clasico in October - might be the first football I see next season if we're still playing 'he said, she said' in this country... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shed76 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well said Iain,i will be going to watch Thistle no matter what league Rangers are in,fact is both Rangers and Celtic supporters go and watch there team home and away and money has went to every team in Scotland and every team look out for them in a cup game to make money,just the way Scottish football is,would imagine most of us at one point have went to the pub to to watch them play as most of our friends support one of then,of course it's not right that the rules should be changed for certain teams,but would rarther go watch my team on a Saturday than sit in the house or god forbid go shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 This is getting boring! The fact remains that even if Newco were to be in Div 3, it's STILL AGAINST THE RULES! Maybe someone should point that out? They don't have 3 years accounts and the fact it's even being entertained at such a late stage is beyond me. IF they go into Div 3 then I suppose I could just about understand it (not support it), but a 'club' that can't meet the entry requirements for Div 3 should NEVER be allowed to skip into Div 1. I don't see this being over by Friday (wish it was, but I just don't see it) and as per usual, everybody else has to suffer because of the OF (or whatever they're now called). Time for decisive action or we won't be playing the Ramsden's Cup games in a couple of weeks, let alone starting the season proper in time. Anyway, at least I've booked flights for the Clasico in October - might be the first football I see next season if we're still playing 'he said, she said' in this country... I'm sure (and I've posted on this elsewhere) that the 3 years accounts requirement is discretionary. Also, any organisation can change 'the rules' as long as they do it in a manner which is organisationally and legally competent. That's what's happening here. So this will be within 'the rules'. That's not my difficulty with it. It's that this is happening in a haphazard manner, missing the obvious opportunities, putting risk on top of risk, and being for the benefit of a limited number of clubs. I don't believe they are doing this for the benefit of 'Rangers' or their fans, but to preserve as much of the status quo as possible and that's poor decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Peebles Tackle Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm sure (and I've posted on this elsewhere) that the 3 years accounts requirement is discretionary. Also, any organisation can change 'the rules' as long as they do it in a manner which is organisationally and legally competent. That's what's happening here. So this will be within 'the rules'. That's not my difficulty with it. It's that this is happening in a haphazard manner, missing the obvious opportunities, putting risk on top of risk, and being for the benefit of a limited number of clubs. I don't believe they are doing this for the benefit of 'Rangers' or their fans, but to preserve as much of the status quo as possible and that's poor decision making. Yep, totally agree. I think there's a bit of saving their own jobs etc as well mind... Total farce, the lot of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinKelvin Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Couldn't agree more with the spirit and word of this post, Iain - well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.D Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 All these "integrity" people are getting on my tits. if they found a tenner on the street would they hand it in to the police Staion?As a Thistle supporter I intend going to support the jags. Simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) All these "integrity" people are getting on my tits. if they found a tenner on the street would they hand it in to the police Staion?As a Thistle supporter I intend going to support the jags. Simples. Do you really think that's what this is about? If you'd been playing cards with a bunch of guys for years and then you find out that the guy who's been winning most of the money (and when he was doing that making jokes about you being poor card players) was actually cheating. You chuck him out the club/pub whatever and a few weeks later he comes back, doesn't apologise, refuses to pay back any of the money he won by cheating but instead tells you, look you wee guys are pretty rubbish card players, you need a class player like me to make it interesting. Do you 1) say: sure come in, we need you, and cheat again if you feel like it. 2) give the guy a kicking and tell him to p1ss off. Oh, and by the way it's pretty obvious either by the title or the first post what these threads are going to be about, so if it gets on your tits so much how come you're bothering to read them? Edited July 11, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) All these "integrity" people are getting on my tits. if they found a tenner on the street would they hand it in to the police Staion?As a Thistle supporter I intend going to support the jags. Simples. All these people who are posting about other people 'boycotting' or not going because of 'integrity' are getting on my tits. Would you pay £260 for something where there is every possibly you cannot succeed even if you were to win? That's what shoehorning Sevco Rovers into SFL1 amounts to. SPL clubs have thrown the poison chalice in the direction of others for others to sort out the mess for them so they can keep their fans onside and keep their Self Preservation League TV income at same time. The idea as we all know is the 'one year take your medicine you naughty lads & come back to us'. Boycotts have only been mentioned in the press, integrity may have been mentioned but those who have done so hav backed up their argument with very valid points. Are they/me doing any different from what the SPL fans asked of their clubs? Perhaps you think of PTFC as the cuddly toy of Scottish Football & are quite happy getting your tummy tickled by our BoD. If our BoD issued a statement akin to Clyde's I'd be up for my ST tomorrow. Instead we've had the usual 'ah but, no but, yes but' from our custodians. My advice to them: grow a pair. However, they're in as deep as the other SPL2 apologists & won't say anything negative just in case... 'Prerogative'. Simples. Edited July 11, 2012 by Trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestreets Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I have to agree... with Iain and some of the other posts above. There is a lot of bad feeling for board and threats of jumping ship etc etc in the main based on speculation and seconding guessing there views. Look at how many fans have already jumped ship in recent years without any of this mess... so maybe again agree people looking for an excuse to join the others in the exodus. I am a Thistle fan(35 years) and I will support them who ever is at the top,my season ticket is bought, I may not always like what they do, but they at least have put themselves forward and are running the club and I would imagine at some personal cost. I actually think our current board and others are trying very hard to make things better, just look at all the offers they try and even when we lost our sponsor they sourced a new one within days. They also gave us some decent signings(could be proved wrong) at end of last season in building for this season. The problem we are faced is something we did not ask for or volunteer for incase people have forgotten... so it might well turn out that's Thistle's input to the outcome of this is not the one the board favoured or the fans. Lets just all see what happens on Friday and then move on and enjoy going to see The Jags in the coming season. The Jags need good positive supporters and what we don't need is the negative vibe that is festering away on here and at some home games, where some of you need to realise the level we play and and the level we pay players way to much expectation when I listen to some of the crap that is blurted out. Rant over lol Ok.. grammar police and smarmy army rip the post apart. COME ON THE JAGS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Problem here Mr Bunny is that we all know that Rangers and Celtic have been allowed to cheat(or gain an unfair advantage) for decades and the rest of Scottish football has done what - hee haw. I think Iain's point is why the uproar now .? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoomac Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm sure (and I've posted on this elsewhere) that the 3 years accounts requirement is discretionary. Also, any organisation can change 'the rules' as long as they do it in a manner which is organisationally and legally competent. That's what's happening here. So this will be within 'the rules'. That's not my difficulty with it. It's that this is happening in a haphazard manner, missing the obvious opportunities, putting risk on top of risk, and being for the benefit of a limited number of clubs. I don't believe they are doing this for the benefit of 'Rangers' or their fans, but to preserve as much of the status quo as possible and that's poor decision making. They changed the rules fairly easily to relegate us. Anyway, I wonder who would'nt turn up at firhill for the promotion match between thistle and the rangers at the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Problem here Mr Bunny is that we all know that Rangers and Celtic have been allowed to cheat(or gain an unfair advantage) for decades and the rest of Scottish football has done what - hee haw. I think Iain's point is why the uproar now .? They seemed to be given advantages (but it was never really prove-able) but it had been going on for ages and we grew up with it. But now we see that one of them was getting more than a mere advantage - a vast advantage - by, it turns out, cheating on an industrial scale. Not only that they cheated the taxman (and taxpayers, i.e. everybody else not just football fans) and it looks very like the football authorities were complicit in it. Good reason to get angry I think. What I think gets the rest of us furious is that these authorities are trying to get the club that did this (also famous for arrogance and bigotry) are trying to recreate the club when we thought it was defunct. There was a chance to really change the game for the better (I don't mean some of the half-baked schemes being offered at the moment) and instead of trying to see if we could do that they're doing everything they can to force all the old rubbish back on us. Basically it's the scale of the thing. But also Thistle had nothing to do with the dodgy refereeing decisions (except the ones against us) and other stuff in the past. The position is now they might vote for Newco in Div 1 and that would make us complicit in the cheating and corruption. That's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rid Skwerr Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 For me, this is a once-in-a-century opportunity to restructure the whole of Scottish Football for the better and I will be seriously pissed off if the Thistle Board are complicit in letting it slip for the sake of some half-hearted promises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general george Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 About time somebody said this. The board should do what's best for thistle. I won't let the jags die for anyone. I'll be back this season as usual. Totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.C.G. JAG Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 It seems almost across the board, Scottish football fans want to see the 3rd Division route. Rangers fans want to exact some revenge and pain on SPL clubs, some want to see punishment, or revenge for years of cheating. For me, it's about whether or not our game has any basic notion of sporting competition. Why should one team be promoted above any team from the Second, Third or Amateur leagues without even having kicked a ball in anger yet? What a kick in the teeth for anyone, any of us, who have braved the rubbish Scottish weather, travelled miles and emptied our wallets to follow our team, hoping rather than expecting them to progress. What is actually the point in following a game that is rigged? Seriously, even those on here who are saying they will go back no matter what, will you still feel the same when it's pishin doon, you've got a hangover, money's looking a bit tight and the missus is griping about going shopping - will you still think, ahh, but I must go along to support this completely rigged, uncompetitive pantomime? No, for me, it's a done deal. If the game is so openly and unapologetically rigged in favour of one team, then I could do without the terminal depression of pretending to be excited about what happens, when it's so obviously a set up. It's maybe easier for me on the other side of the world. As I said in another thread, I'll just throw my lot in with AFL here. Ironically, my local team - the Western Bulldogs - play in red, white & blue. The whole of Melbourne's Footscray is painted in those colours, every shop, restaurant and park bench are draped in those colours. It reminds me of the last time I was in Belfast. All that's missing is a tank on every street corner. Despite my severe reservations about them due to the colours, they are a genuine family club (my kids go to the Bulldog's Kindergarten!) and their attendances are about as low as their position on the ladder is. They've got a lot in common with Thistle and when I tell people about Thistle, they always say The Doggies are the right team for someone like me to follow. I can't bring myself to wear their colours though! I'll just keep my Jags gear for games. No, even if Servco get slotted into the first, I'd keep buying Thistle merchandise, even if the games themselves would be pointless. Well, I say that, but it's on the proviso that Thistle voted against that result. If they vote for an SPL1 result, then, they're just complicit in it too. Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion, but I just can't square paying to watch such a rigged game. It's a sport - take the sport out of it and what have you got left? Answer - "He's behind yoooooooo!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejag Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 As its a secret ballot, will we find out which way BOD voted?? I doubt it. If they come out publicly against Newco all this ANGST will disappear, even from myself.!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion, but I just can't square paying to watch such a rigged game. It's a sport - take the sport out of it and what have you got left? Answer - "He's behind yoooooooo!" It's your characterisation of football being 'rigged' in this way (a view others share). It's not one I subscribe to. The way the league is structured is always artificial. The game in this sense is always 'rigged'. If the actual matches I went to were 'rigged' or if the league we were in wasn't accounted properly then I'd agree and I wouldn't watch it. but I don't see it that way in this instance. We've had the deck stacked against us worse and more unfairly before, and that only strengthened my resolve at that point to support my club. I do understand, and have a degree of sympathy with the view of those who draw an equivalence between 'rigging' a game by financial doping, and match fixing. But I don't view these as fundamentally equivalent, and as I say I feel we have been cheated worse before than we have in this instance. I do acknowledge that we all have a line we wouldn't cross - this isn't one for me. But I am frustrated by it, particularly our club's stance, understandable though that may be. We should dispel the myth that this is being done for the benefit of one club - it's not. We should dispel the myth that this is being done for the benefit of Scottish football - it's not (though that may be an unintended consequence). It's being done purely to preserve the status quo for the majority of the SPL, a structure dependent on the competition between the members of the Old Firm. What our club needs to understand is that we stand (amongst other things) as an oasis of resistance to the Old Firm in Glasgow. To be complicit in shoring up this duopoly is misjudging our relationship with our community. As well as missing the obvious opportunity. Yes, reading our last statement, and the latest statements from the SFL and authorities makes me believe we will vote in favour of resolution ii tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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