erty13 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Has he done enough to justify being in the team. 1 Two sending offs have dropped the team right in it in both games. 2 Sloppy passing 3 No real presence on the park, do the young players look up to him when the going gets tough. What are you thoughts. Erty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin1876 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 He's a useful player to have around, but he's also a liability at times. A player like him, and the positions he puts himself in, are always likely to get him sent off more than most, and we have to accept that. Remember he played very well at the start of the season, so missing a game or two might be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Username Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Sitting midfield players are always likely to pick up bookings and one or two reds a season, it's part of the role. So far, Murray's style of play and positioning has been instrumental in both Welsh and Paton being allowed to work harder in other areas of the the pitch. His experience will undoubtedly be something that the younger players will gain from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Sitting midfield players are always likely to pick up bookings and one or two reds a season, it's part of the role. So far, Murray's style of play and positioning has been instrumental in both Welsh and Paton being allowed to work harder in other areas of the the pitch. His experience will undoubtedly be something that the younger players will gain from Would have rowser in there before Murray every time, even before yesterday's stupidity. Hopefully Rowson is back soon. We have missed Welsh big time too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) Sadly I don't think we'll see Rowson back in the side regularly again and if he is I don't think his injury will have done him any favours with it pretty much ruining his pre-season and him now 36. Murray's passing has been poor in recent games but his positional sense and awareness allows O'Donnell and Bannigan to get forward without us being caught out very often on the counter attack. I like having a midfielder in there who isn't afraid to stick the boot in and yesterday apart he usually makes sensible fouls. I wouldn't be writing him off yet, he's been a vital part of what has been an excellent start to the season and I thought we missed him badly in the 2 games he didn't play in this season. Regarding the 1st point I can't comment too much because I was at the other side of the park at Forfar but weren't there some on here at that side of the pitch who thought it was harsh and spoke to Forfar fans who thought similar? On point 3 I'd say he has a presence on the park and not only do the younger players look up to him but I feel Paton's game has improved playing alongside him. Edited October 7, 2012 by Pie Of The Month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yesterday was my second game of the season, so I can't comment on his earlier performances, but Murray didn't impress me last week, and yesterday his lack of pace was clear. That led to him cutting the guy down for his first booking, and the second booking was just crazy; the ball was on the shy line and there was no danger. "Liability" comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Sitting midfield players are always likely to pick up bookings and one or two reds a season, it's part of the role. So far, Murray's style of play and positioning has been instrumental in both Welsh and Paton being allowed to work harder in other areas of the the pitch. His experience will undoubtedly be something that the younger players will gain from This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Regarding the 1st point I can't comment too much because I was at the other side of the park at Forfar but weren't there some on here at that side of the pitch who thought it was harsh and spoke to Forfar fans who thought similar? On point 3 I'd say he has a presence on the park and not only do the younger players look up to him but I feel Paton's game has improved playing alongside him. The ref sent Murray off at Forfar as in his opinion he denied a clear goal scoring opportunity so it was just one of those things that happens. Whether an actual penalty or not he was taking a calculated risk that on that occasion backfired. Yesterday tho' looked like it was lunacy. Already booked going in heavy in an area where we could comfortably lose possession is hard to justify. I agree Paton's come on leaps and bounds this season and playing alongside Murray must have been a major factor. Murray has been caught in possession or been guilty of a misplaced pass a bit too often for my liking in recent games but in his defence it's partly a percentage thing as he does see the ball proportionally more than other players. I'm a great admirer of Rowser but even when fully fit I can't see him replace Shug without modifying the team playing style. DR may not get caught in possession often but I feel he'd struggle with our passing game. Put another way Murray for all his recent errors is still a better passer of the ball than Rowson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Hes been a real weak link as of late. His pace has been a liability, he has been caught flat footed on the ball quite a few times, and even his basic passing which was very good the first few games has been off. Needs dropped IMO. Not convinced he has the legs to go a full season playing every game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted October 7, 2012 Members Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Murray's red card tackle reminds me of the tackle that Stuart Bannigan took last season that saw him carried off except Stuart's opponent was a lot later and didn't get a card. I wonder if the ref was influenced by the fact that the majority of Morton fans were in that area screamng for action? From Tommy's picture it looks 50-50 and Hugh looks to have his eyes shut waiting to feel some pain himself. Anyone read the Morton forums to see if there is an unbiased version of the challenge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 At the time I thought it was a 50/50 and if anything the Morton player was more reckless than Shuggie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordie Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I like Murray, he allows the others to play further forward, but he needs faster players around him tho. All in all a good signing and a very decent player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernsoul Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 We would not have had the great start we have made so far without Hugh Murray, he's been a great signing and is an important player for us. I do agree that he let us down big time yesterday and two red cards already by early October isn't good enough. I think people are overreacting though. Yep, he has not played as well as he has done already this season but that applies to other players too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Latest scapegoat??? Every time we lose a game a player gets a topic like this strange it doesn't happen when we win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erty13 Posted October 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I am not calling for his head,so hardly a scapegoat. I am asking if he has done enough to merit, a starting place every week. There is quite a lot of other midfielders who are desperate for a place in the first team. When doolan is back to full fitness i would be tempted to play with two up front. Erty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thornwoodjag Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I would like to see doolan and Craig start next week. Erskine, and lawless out wide and hopefully Welsh and A N Other in middle. And have a right go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Latest scapegoat??? Every time we lose a game a player gets a topic like this strange it doesn't happen when we win Aye, imagine coming onto a football forum and discussing whether a player played well or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy1967 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Aye, imagine coming onto a football forum and discussing whether a player played well or not. The man has a valid point if you take it in the context he meant ! Otherwise rip the pish from another fan. You know what he meant ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestreets Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 for me he has been decent this season.. got a reputation of hard tackles and bookings, I think overall he is a good quality player all the negative stuff on here for me is harsh.. until Morton game with him in side unbeaten... crazy to be sniping any of the team after our start.. come on the jags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 So, can I just clarify. We've been crying out for a tough tackling midfielder for 10 years. Now that we have one, we don't want one? Or do we want a player who is on a booking to not go in for 50/50 balls? Maybe the boss should sub any player who's been booked? Can I check, we've got a guy who is one of the oldest in the team, so should any fault be placed at the door of the younger lads for not covering space... See banzo, for murray's first booking. Yes he got best in the middle of the park, but he had to chase back as brannigan wasn't covering the space behind him. And just so I'm clear, he's the guy who is always available for a pass, drops deep to give the defenders an outball, doesn't hide and probably completes the most passed in the team... But has misplaced some passes? I just want to be clear on why folk want the guy who the team is built around to be dropped. No disrespect to folks opinions, but I'll sit and wait to see what the boss does. Incidentally, is anyone planning on dedicating a thread to o'donnel, who's control and lack of movement was poor. Or fox who can't command his box and who's distribution was terrible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I don't want Murray dropped and think he has been an integral part of our excellent start to the season so I'm probably not the best to reply to that but I will anyway. I do want a player who is on a booking to not be afraid go in for 50/50 balls but I'd expect a player of Murray's experience to be intelligent enough to judge when and where on the pitch to go in for those 50/50s. Midway inside the Morton half with Stirling going nowhere isn't where Murray should be risking a 2nd booking. I don't really see any complaints about Murray's first booking either. It was one of those where it was smart to take the booking and you're right it was caused by others being out of position too. I think there is some truth in what lady isobel was saying that it's probably a percentage thing with him losing the ball. He sees so much of it that it's more noticeable when he loses the ball but I can't really blame anyone for being critical of it when we've been lucky it hasn't punished yet as when he loses it he has no safety net as he is the safety net for misplaced passes by the rest of the midfield. I think you're being incredibly unfair on O'Donnell by picking him out above others. He wasn't by far the worst player on the pitch yesterday, has improved massively both going forward and defensively and was probably my MOTM at Kirkcaldy last week. Fox too as I think he was let down by his defence for both set pieces as he was forced to stay on his line by the man on him (with no protection from the ref), was excellent when one on one against Campbell and is the reason we have 1 point from the last 2 weeks rather than none. He won't be dropped anyway and rightly so. I think we'll see his more and more of his value to the side as we get into the winter and have to grind out results more and more instead of relying on keeping the ball on the deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 We're suffering in the midfield because Welsh is out, not because Murray is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Incidentally, is anyone planning on dedicating a thread to o'donnel, who's control and lack of movement was poor. I agree with your defence of Murray, but O'Donnell was superb yesterday. Never stopped running, put in some excellent tackles and was a threat going forward. You don't need to defend one player by criticising others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 It's probably going to be be easier to judge Murray when he's out of the team than in it. Sometimes you don't know what a player is doing until they're missing from the team. In seasons gone by Danny Lennon often went through games unoticed but when he was missing from the team we were so much poorer without him.Shug does a lot of graft, hard work and the unsung stuff like the chasing and closing down that is maybe not noticed much but is vital to the team. Having said that I do think he's been off form the last two or three games with the odd daft tackle and pass.We'll know better during the time he's out of the team what he brings to the side and during that time it's up to those who come in to step up to the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 And that's exactly my point, by highlighting O'Donnell. I could have highlighted Patin who put in some petulant tackles and who was like a headless chicken at times... Or Archie for pumping long balls to no one... Or the midfield for going missing in the second half... Or the boss for putting on the new lad who was no where near any level of fitness. Just as a thread has been dedicated to Murray, why should it not be dedicated to others. It's one thing saying, we're only having a discussion. But it goes past discussion when folk are calling for the guy to be dropped. Lets not forget, his game is built around letting folk know who the boss is. He may have been on a booking, it may have been in the middle if the park. But it was a 50/50 ball, both players went in with the intention if winning it... And Murray won the ball. He didn't go in over the top and didn't go in two footed. For all the folk saying he should have held off. If it wasn't infront of a baying Morton support, and if the ball had stayed in play and set up a counter attack that we scored from, would he be hero or villain? Or, if he had held off like some folk want, and the boy played a ball into the space behind him, and they scored, would folk praise him for holding off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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