potty trained Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 Â Â Doesnt the prize money improve markedly, if the new plans go ahead?, so yes I agree 2nd division football could well kill them. I hope not! Â F*ck em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 Got to add to that, the new financial distribution will see a team even finishing 5th in div 1 gaining substantial amounts of money. Also with play offs there is a lot more to play for now in 1st. I'm sure if they stay up they would be pushing for a 4th place finish. Â But.... All this doesn't matter as Alloa by far outplayed Dunfermline, who got sliced open far too easily. Thought Ryan McCord played very well before he went off. Annoys me I can't talk about the game as all my so called scottish football friends were more interested in watching a drab Chelsea team do a rangers style, negative tactics euro win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 They'll lose more money in the 2nd than will ever be offset with Rangers being there. They will be without 6 home derby games for a start and relegated Dundee's away support would have replaced our numbers I reckon if they were to remain in the first. Not forgetting that the rest of the division's away support is likely to be as low if not lower than they currently get in the 1st. Rangers away support for two games will in no way come close to what they will miss out on if relegated. Â Not convinced by that argument at all Will. Â 6 home derby games - really? Dundee fans haven't travelled in numbers for years. Cowdenbeath have never brought numbers anywhere, even their home games. Raith will bring a decent support if they have something to play for but nowhere near what Rangers will bring. Â Falkirk would probably bring 500 max. Apart from that I can't think of anyone in the 1st next season who will bring a decent away support to EEP. Â I honestly think that Dunfermline will be better off in the 2nd division next season. They will more than likely be comfortable in 2nd place, the games against Rangers could be very interesting, and they can expect big gates for the playoff games at the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 Not convinced by that argument at all Will. Â 6 home derby games - really? Dundee fans haven't travelled in numbers for years. Cowdenbeath have never brought numbers anywhere, even their home games. Raith will bring a decent support if they have something to play for but nowhere near what Rangers will bring. Â Falkirk would probably bring 500 max. Apart from that I can't think of anyone in the 1st next season who will bring a decent away support to EEP. Â I honestly think that Dunfermline will be better off in the 2nd division next season. They will more than likely be comfortable in 2nd place, the games against Rangers could be very interesting, and they can expect big gates for the playoff games at the end of the season. Â Depends how their administration pans out. Will they be able to afford much of a team? They could struggle - though maybe not as much as in the 1st division so in that way perhaps it's better if they're in the 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 Not convinced by that argument at all Will.  6 home derby games - really? Dundee fans haven't travelled in numbers for years. Cowdenbeath have never brought numbers anywhere, even their home games. Raith will bring a decent support if they have something to play for but nowhere near what Rangers will bring.  Falkirk would probably bring 500 max. Apart from that I can't think of anyone in the 1st next season who will bring a decent away support to EEP.  I honestly think that Dunfermline will be better off in the 2nd division next season. They will more than likely be comfortable in 2nd place, the games against Rangers could be very interesting, and they can expect big gates for the playoff games at the end of the season.  The force is not very strong with you today young one.  If (as looks likely) the Fife Cheats end up in SFL2, they will be worse off. Falkirk in past often take 1-2k to Cheat End Park. Raith and Cowdenbeath have been known to bring equivalent of their home crowds to CEP. All other SFL1 teams would bring more away supporters than any SPL2 club will (barring the one year old govan club). Then there is the new clubs followers who follow followed the now dead club - who have vowed to boycott certain clubs away grounds - CEP being one of them, so don't think the Fife Cheats can bank on anything near full houses against them in SPL2. Over and above all this, it is likely the admission price will have to drop in SPL2, and it's equally likely their average home support will dwindle. Likewise sponsorship revenues will be lower in SPL2. As GRE has pointed out, the new financial reward for being in SPL1 will be sizeable, so that is another chunk of money they will miss. So, in conclusion, i cannot see how the Fife Cheats will be in any way better off in SPL2.  And that is assuming they survive long enough to start next season. The administrator has stated they needed 5k crowds to see them through to end of season, and to have a chance of surviving through the summer. Since that statement, not one of their crowds has hit 5k, despite lots of effort and noise being made in the area, and the threat that failure to do so could see the end of the club, so maybe there is not enough will in the community to back the club sufficiently enough to ensure its future without need of liquidation. After last nights result, and the likelihood that Alloa will not do a Forfar, coupled with fact game will be live on tv, i would be surprised if there is much more than 3k at Sundays game - doesn't do much to help the administrators efforts to manage to keep the club away from CVA or Liquidation. Plus if they do not exit admin before the new season starts, they need to pay a fine of £150k, and could also be subject of a bond requirement for the 2013/14 season.  It all points to not enough money coming in to meet the level of outgoings they will be requiring, so could get a whole lot worse for them yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 The force is not very strong with you today young one.  Plus if they do not exit admin before the new season starts, they need to pay a fine of £150k, and could also be subject of a bond requirement for the 2013/14 season.  It all points to not enough money coming in to meet the level of outgoings they will be requiring, so could get a whole lot worse for them yet. Nor with you..... They have not been fined £150k, that is the bond they will have to pay the SFL if they fail to exit admin before next season:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22085474. All told, however, I agree with you and Will, especially since they can't sign players until Jan 2014. That team they have will never finish 2nd in the 2nd Division, possibly not even play-off material. They are also banned from the Scottish Cup until they pay Accies gate receipts due from 2012-13 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 Not convinced by that argument at all Will. Â 6 home derby games - really? Dundee fans haven't travelled in numbers for years. Cowdenbeath have never brought numbers anywhere, even their home games. Raith will bring a decent support if they have something to play for but nowhere near what Rangers will bring. Â Falkirk would probably bring 500 max. Apart from that I can't think of anyone in the 1st next season who will bring a decent away support to EEP. Â I honestly think that Dunfermline will be better off in the 2nd division next season. They will more than likely be comfortable in 2nd place, the games against Rangers could be very interesting, and they can expect big gates for the playoff games at the end of the season. Â Dundee fans don't travel well to the west of Scotland, but they generally push up crowd numbers in the east and Dunfermline would benefit. I would think that the average crowd they would get in the first would be larger than in the second, however a larger playing budget would probably be required too. Â With the prizemoney reallocation to come into force, I'd much rather be in division one than two next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fredthecheesecloth Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 To the poster calling Dunfermline cheats. Remember that time we paid 40p in the pound to creditors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 The force is not very strong with you today young one.  The force was stronger 12 days ago  May the 4th be with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 When was the last time the division 1 team won the playoff ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 Dundee fans don't travel well to the west of Scotland, but they generally push up crowd numbers in the east and Dunfermline would benefit. Â Just under 1000 to Renfrewshire in November last year suggests otherwise. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) I'd rather Dunfermline didn't go bust. The phoenix club route is almost cheating in itself, a fresh start with the debt cleared, zoom back up the leagues to a natural level again and creditors barely see a penny in the end. Continue as they are though and it will be a few years of misery getting turned over by the pub teams of the seaside leagues whilst paying their dues, which is what they deserve. Edited May 16, 2013 by MWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 I'd rather Dunfermline didn't go bust. The phoenix club route is almost cheating in itself, a fresh start with the debt cleared, zoom back up the leagues to a natural level again and creditors barely see a penny in the end. Continue as they are though and it will be a few years of misery getting turned over by the pub teams of the seaside leagues whilst paying their dues, which is what they deserve. Â Tend to agree. Â What happens if/when a pyramid system is introduced? When rangers/sevco dropped into the 3rd Div, or more correctly were invited into the SFL at that level, they weren't strictly taking anyone's place. I know you can argue Spartans or Cove Rangers have a case but they weren't in line to play senior football this season regardless of the sevco situation. So if/when there's promotion and relegation to and from the 3rd Div and a club from higher up the pecking order goes bust would there be no promotion that season to the 3rd so as to accommodate that club? Â As above post suggests the newco route could be an easy way out especially the further down the tables the club is playing. If the Pars get relegated on Sunday then the newco route of starting out in the 3rd Div may only mean them dropping down one division as opposed to sevco going down three tiers Could get real messy. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancipital Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Different country but case in point is chester city, who went bust 3 years ago, reformed 3 leagues below where they were and have won 3 straight promotions with loads of points and are back in the old conference next year. Â Darlington dropped 4 levels when they folded at the end of last season and won their league with 122 points this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Different country but case in point is chester city, who went bust 3 years ago, reformed 3 leagues below where they were and have won 3 straight promotions with loads of points and are back in the old conference next year. Â Darlington dropped 4 levels when they folded at the end of last season and won their league with 122 points this season. Â When a club enters, or re-enters the FA pyramid as a phoenix club, the FA or regional FA estimates the level at which they should return based on their infrastructure etc, which will usually be a few divisions lower then they had played in previously for a phoenix club. Â Ilkeston Town, reformed as Ilkeston FC were slotted in two division below where they had been previously (Conference North down to Northern Premier League Division One South) winning promotion via the playoffs in their first season as a club. There will be endless examples around England, however these are the rules for clubs in England, and in Scotland there is a formal route of application that appears to have been partially bypassed by Sevco. I'm not sure Dunfermline would be offered the same route, even though the precedent has been set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 The financial fair play/play off deal is yet to be agreed as far as I'm aware. The way things have been going with the SPL recently I'll only believe that the play-offs are happening when the referee blows his whistle for the actual games themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Different country but case in point is chester city, who went bust 3 years ago, reformed 3 leagues below where they were and have won 3 straight promotions with loads of points and are back in the old conference next year. Â Darlington dropped 4 levels when they folded at the end of last season and won their league with 122 points this season. Â Darlington don't have a stadium of their own and are playing their home games in Bishop Auckland. The local rugby club bought the Darlington Arena at the end of last year. They will have to share it or find a new home to get back into the Football League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) To the poster calling Dunfermline cheats. Remember that time we paid 40p in the pound to creditors? I think theres a bit of a difference honkers, we ended up broke largely because we were trying to get the stadium up to standard and comply with regulations, they've went broke paying players 5 grand a week. Edited May 17, 2013 by MWM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 I think theres a bit of a difference honkers, we ended up broke largely because we were trying to get the stadium up to standard and comply with regulations, they've went broke paying players 5 grand a week. Â This. Â I look forward to them having a few seasons in the seaside league, and when they do return, they run their club in a more responsible manner. Â No one showed us any sympathy when we went down to Div 2 on the back of Save The Jags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 Got this on on Alba in the background. 0-0 with 25 min left. Alloa pretty much toying around; look much more polished that the Pars, though both are miles behind the silky Jags. Â Pretty decent crowd; I'd guess around 4,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 Got this on on Alba in the background. 0-0 with 25 min left. Alloa pretty much toying around; look much more polished that the Pars, though both are miles behind the silky Jags. Â Pretty decent crowd; I'd guess around 4,000. Â Now 1-0 Pars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 Dungfermline down to 10 now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 Dunfermline just don't look that interested to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 and it all came down to Wee Lawless's injury time goal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 Pars down in the 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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