Jaggernaut Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Will any persons in the ground seen to either be in the possession of flares (not the trouser variety) or lighting them or throwing them be arrested? Only the polis can tell us that. And given that these events seem to occur repeatedly, I wouldn't expect a positive response. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 We have a Stadium Safety Certificate and all stands are covered - there are conditions on the Main Stand due to the Wooden Cladding - escape times - fire requirements etc - there has been concerns raised ref use of flares and recommendations regards the fan segregation - we can comply with the recommendations or not - it is at our risk - BUT the Council can take out a prohibition order regards any part of the Stadium and enforce - We also need to factor in if anything went wrong and we ignored the information provided by Police then any inquiry by H&S would take this into account regards future liability and prosecutions. If Celtic fans are in the main stand at Fir Park this season I'll be calling a stewards enquiry, unless of course North Lanarkshire don't care about fire safety. If the Police and council are more or less telling us Celtic fans are not allowed in the main stand we should apologise to Celtic for being unable to grant them an allocation and point them in he direction of Pitt Street/George Square. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagsfan1963 Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 We have a Stadium Safety Certificate and all stands are covered - there are conditions on the Main Stand due to the Wooden Cladding - escape times - fire requirements etc - there has been concerns raised ref use of flares and recommendations regards the fan segregation - we can comply with the recommendations or not - it is at our risk - BUT the Council can take out a prohibition order regards any part of the Stadium and enforce - We also need to factor in if anything went wrong and we ignored the information provided by Police then any inquiry by H&S would take this into account regards future liability and prosecutions. I don't think we would ignore the recommendations but we could mitigate the risk of Celtic fans being housed in the Main Stand by searching fans on entry to the stadium. I've seen mums and dads with kids have their bags searched by police outside the JHS so why not apply similar, more stringent measures to Celtic fans? Are we the only club with wooden stands? If not, are fans segregated in those stands or mixed? Why were the police and council happy with housing Celtic or Rangers fans in the Main stand at the Glasgow cup? The issue here seems to be the Police and or council almost condoning the use of flares as long as its in a concrete stand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Bringing flares into the ground is banned under "The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985" of which adds to the Football Scotland Act 1980 (If i remember right), plus the fireworks act (2004 I think), so they are banned, by moving us and bowing down to Celtic we (And Strathclydes finest) are in fact stating that we believe this act will be broken within our property prior to it taking place, and are not trying to stop it, we are allowing it to happen and only moving it. The risk still exists that they will launch flares or fireworks even into the main stand (where our fans will be) unless everyone is fully searched or we ban them before the game, and going on their behavior at the Glasgow cup I would ban them plus their blue brothers next time they visit. What was it Beattie stated "Morals over money" or words to that effect 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) I don't think we would ignore the recommendations but we could mitigate the risk of Celtic fans being housed in the Main Stand by searching fans on entry to the stadium. I've seen mums and dads with kids have their bags searched by police outside the JHS so why not apply similar, more stringent measures to Celtic fans? Are we the only club with wooden stands? If not, are fans segregated in those stands or mixed? Why were the police and council happy with housing Celtic or Rangers fans in the Main stand at the Glasgow cup? The issue here seems to be the Police and or council almost condoning the use of flares as long as its in a concrete stand! That was raised - we were advised that you can buy Flares about the size of a roll of Pound coins - easy to conceal - North Lanarkshire are a different Council they will apply there own standards - its based on the possible risk which based on other incidents was deemed to be too high to ignore in a Wooden Stand Edited June 18, 2013 by Jordanhill Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briogadh Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 I don't think we would ignore the recommendations but we could mitigate the risk of Celtic fans being housed in the Main Stand by searching fans on entry to the stadium. I've seen mums and dads with kids have their bags searched by police outside the JHS so why not apply similar, more stringent measures to Celtic fans? Are we the only club with wooden stands? If not, are fans segregated in those stands or mixed? Why were the police and council happy with housing Celtic or Rangers fans in the Main stand at the Glasgow cup? The issue here seems to be the Police and or council almost condoning the use of flares as long as its in a concrete stand! Or maybe they are afraid to tackle the fans of one of the OF twins... , or regard them as a "special case" ( copyright A McCoist.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 If Celtic fans are in the main stand at Fir Park this season I'll be calling a stewards enquiry, unless of course North Lanarkshire don't care about fire safety. If the Police and council are more or less telling us Celtic fans are not allowed in the main stand we should apologise to Celtic for being unable to grant them an allocation and point them in he direction of Pitt Street/George Square. They are not telling us - they point out the risk - make recommendations and we have to decide BUT as pointed out they have the Authority under current legislation to impose if required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 They are not telling us - they point out the risk - make recommendations and we have to decide BUT as pointed out they have the Authority under current legislation to impose if required. Well, in my opinion the solution should be to deny Celtic a ticket allocation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Well, in my opinion the solution should be to deny Celtic a ticket allocation. Spot on. If someone can't behave in your living room you wouldn't let him have the run of your kitchen instead. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Spot on. If someone can't behave in your living room you wouldn't let him have the run of your kitchen instead. Knives, gas cooker.... accident waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Just been reading the Club statement and this paragraph struck me: This, coupled with our own experiences of flares at Firhill over the last couple of season, meant that it is something we have to seriously consider as the consequences of incendiary devices in a wooden clad stand are there for all to see. I don't get to every home game (probably managed 2/3 last season) but don't remember any flares/fireworks. Any of you more regular attendees remember these experiences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Just been reading the Club statement and this paragraph struck me: This, coupled with our own experiences of flares at Firhill over the last couple of season, meant that it is something we have to seriously consider as the consequences of incendiary devices in a wooden clad stand are there for all to see. I don't get to every home game (probably managed 2/3 last season) but don't remember any flares/fireworks. Any of you more regular attendees remember these experiences? The pre-season game v Celtic & the recent Glasgow Cup final, can't think of any others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 And with the Celtic support sitting next to the patrons in the JHS how we going to stop them launching flares into our end???? Or should we just put all our fans the the main stand as their fans are a risk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPO Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Hmmm, too angry and p*ssed off to make rational decisions. I liked the idea of banning Celtic for obvious reasons but this was never going to happen; so more of a novelty value suggestion IMO. At the end of the day money talks. Put simply and in terms of crowd and atmosphere etc, the N Stand was the best thing that's happened at Firhill in years. It's a sad day that it's been taken away as I think this will kill the atmosphere at many home games; especially those where we'll be able to count the away fans! I can always find an excuse not to go to Firhill but then guilt kicks in; plus I can't live with the threatening texts from a few regulars. Time to call my therapist... Never mind you can look forward to the away games at Parkheed with superb restricted views We should erect a giant pillar or a giant inflatable turd at the North stand just for those nice Celic fans. http://www.thefrisky.com/2013-04-30/behold-a-glorious-inflatable-turd-sculpture/ Edited June 18, 2013 by DPO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 The only way round this, that I can see, is to politely say to Celtic; "We have allocated you the Main Stand but the police and council are advising us not to give you these tickets due to previous behaviour of your supporters, sorry about this but our hands are tied." Therefore we play the game with only Jags fans in the ground. This way there are no fires, no smashed seats, no fighting and we wont have rolled over as a club. The alternatives are embarrassing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 The only way round this, that I can see, is to politely say to Celtic; "We have allocated you the Main Stand but the police and council are advising us not to give you these tickets due to previous behaviour of your supporters, sorry about this but our hands are tied." Therefore we play the game with only Jags fans in the ground. This way there are no fires, no smashed seats, no fighting and we wont have rolled over as a club. The alternatives are embarrassing. The perfect solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 The only way round this, that I can see, is to politely say to Celtic; "We have allocated you the Main Stand but the police and council are advising us not to give you these tickets due to previous behaviour of your supporters, sorry about this but our hands are tied." Therefore we play the game with only Jags fans in the ground. This way there are no fires, no smashed seats, no fighting and we wont have rolled over as a club. The alternatives are embarrassing. Many Jags fans are sitting stewing right now. My mind has drfited to this stance. We could have a "bring a mate" campaign. With a positive campaign I'm totally sure we could pull in an extremely healthy 8,000 + Noble. Moral. Just. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Many Jags fans are sitting stewing right now. My mind has drfited to this stance. We could have a "bring a mate" campaign. With a positive campaign I'm totally sure we could pull in an extremely healthy 8,000 + Noble. Moral. Just. Ian Mac, PT, Jim, Lance, What are your thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Ian Mac, PT, Jim, Lance, What are your thoughts on this? If I thought it was possible I would be 100% behind it but we got 5000 for promotion and Cup Games - not looking to be negative just looking at how realistic it would be as an aim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 If I thought it was possible I would be 100% behind it but we got 5000 for promotion and Cup Games - not looking to be negative just looking at how realistic it would be as an aim That would imply that there is a financial element in the decision which has been taken as opposed to the purely safety line which has so far been taken. I think the poster makes a very good suggestion and unless we are obligated by the league to offer the away team an allocation of tickets for their fans then I would support what has been suggested. As David Beattie says - "morals over money". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagsfan1963 Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Alternatively could we not offer Celtic the main stand on the proviso they are fully responsible for the behaviour of their fans inside the stadium? If they cannot accept this then no tickets. I'm sure we could attract a decent crowd and it would almost certainly generate TV interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 We took 12,000 to Hampden for the Rangers semi, Around 6,000 to Livingston for the Ramsdens We must have had 6,500 to 7,000 for the Morton game. I'm pretty sure (esp. with a rallying call) we could get over 8,000 Jags fans for this one. First time back in the top league for a while always gets a boost as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 You could even bring yer Celtic mate on the strict proviso that he has nae colours, sits doon, shuts the feck up and disnae fiddle with the seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggie Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 The only way round this, that I can see, is to politely say to Celtic; "We have allocated you the Main Stand but the police and council are advising us not to give you these tickets due to previous behaviour of your supporters, sorry about this but our hands are tied." Therefore we play the game with only Jags fans in the ground. This way there are no fires, no smashed seats, no fighting and we wont have rolled over as a club. The alternatives are embarrassing. I can think of one alternative.... a rough idea of what I'd like to see (tweak it to overcome any faux pas) Dear Celtic FC No doubt you are aware of the current concerns at Firhill over the unfortunate minority of individuals who follow your support but flout the law of the land and the safety of others by buying and using flares at football matches. The publicity given to this has been inaccurate and can only fan the flames (sorry couldn't help it!) PTFC does not wish to ban the ranks of law abiding Celtic fans In an effort to accommodate Celtic fans in our Main stand we have to assess and contain the risk that flares may be brought into the ground and used within this wooden structure. To minimise any affront being afforded to the vast majority of your fans we strongly suggest that this stand is stewarded by your own clearly identified Celtic Stewards for access and on going observation, control and risk management. We extend our fullest support to your body of stewards and offer you staff training / acclimatisation for your visits to Firhill, to allow your Club to take responsibility for the conduct of your support. We are glad to be back in Scotland's top tier and we wish our own fans to enjoy the best experience the coming season has to offer. We hope and expect to extend to you a very warm welcome (whoops sorry again!!) to Firhill and trust you will find this solution to a most unfortunate set of circumstances one that everyone involved who loves our game can understand and support. PTFC Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Got a funny feeling, well see at least half the JHS for Celtic and Segregation plus the North stand and us plumped in whats left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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