Paddy Thistle Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I reckon Higginbotham could play up front, and this would also allow for Craigen to be back in the team - I think he is missed. It's ashame that there is no place for Fraser anymore with Welsh and Osbourne being undropable really. Be good if there was a way to fit him in but it would probably involve a change in formation as I don't really think Welsh could play that more advanced role. Perhaps he could though and we then have Fraser and Osbourne behind. The only thing with this, is it is not a long term plan and could maybe only work for a couple of games. But getting Doolan and Bannigan out the team for Craigen and Fraser, while pushing Higginbotham and Welsh forward, could be a good idea. When Welsh first signed for us I thought he played in the more forward role and did the same at the start of last seasonand weighed in with a couple of goals, He seemed to paly further back after Paton stopped playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premjag Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I really hope Archie persists with this style of play and doesn't succumb to pressure and revert to long-ball. We wouldn't be able to play the way we do with two strikers. If we keep dominating games the way we have been, the points will keep coming in, and we'll be more than safe by the end of the season. Interestingly, on the Doolan front, he's got the same/more goals in the league this season than Goodwillie, Heffernan, James Collins (£200k), Hasselbaink and more - all players who we probably regard as far superior to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I think the frustrating thing with Doolan, is he harrases defenders enough, he makes good runs in behind, he always seems to get quite a few chances. But, he just doesn't score them anymore. I think in Division 1, Doolan had a good strike rate because he got 5 or 6 decent chances every game but at this level you only get 2 or 3 good chances and some half chances. He's never scoring half chances and very rarely scoring a good chance, while other teams are making the most of their chances. Now the frustrating thing is to play him and hope he starts to score the chances, or will this drag on all season? From this season, including friendlies and cups, Doolan has played in 17 games, starting 10, scoring 3 goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I'm sure I've read other teams fans on P&B (I think St Johnstone in particular) saying that they had the same problem as us in their first season, 'dominating games' but unable to score. I certainly wouldn't be changing the way we play, I'm not entirely sure what this change would be, stop the full backs going forward, stick a big guy up front with Doolan and hit balls to them? Sod that. Is it not just a case of establishing ourselves in the SPL and being able to get in a better striker next season or the season after? In the meantime what I have noticed is that Erskine was up to all sorts last season, he was forever picking up the ball in the middle of the park and running forward then sliding balls through to Doolan (and Craig). This season Lawless and Higginbotham don't do that, they stay wider meaning that Doolan cuts a lonely figure up against the 2 centre halves. He is involved in less close play passing on the edge of the box, and with nobody around him to distract defenders they are largely able to snuff everything out. Osbourne is doing the Paton role much better than Paton ever did, but for some reason whoever is playinhg beside him often stays back so that's another body missing from attacks. Fair enough you can't do that every game but last night at home to a team who offered no threat we don't need 2 guys staying back do we? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy davie Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 We should be at least 6 points better off than are. I love Kris Doolan, but he should defo have scored against Hearts, Dundee United, and Hibs... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Had a wee look at the stats - so in an "us" vs "them" format: In the league: Us - Shots .. On Target .. Goals 108 .. 50 .. 8 Them - Shots .. On Target .. Goals 93 .. 40 .. 10 Basically this means we get slightly better ratio for shots on target/per shot as the oppostion (1 in every 2.2 and 1 in 2.3 respectively). However, our shots on target that lead to goals is much worse (1 in 6.3 shots on target are goals, opposed to 1 in 4 for them). Overall, our shots to goals ratio is 1 in 13.5 and oppositions against us is 1 goal in every 9.3 shots. These might just seem like numbers but I think you can read quite a lot into them. It confirms that other teams are far more lethal in front of goal (which we all knew). I've been thinking when we shoot, it seems like we just want to get the shot away and get it near the goal (that way no one will complain) rather than actually trying to score. We have had 25% more shots on target resulting in 20% less goals. In terms of percentages, 16% of our shots on target are goals compared to 25% for opposition. Opposition have had 86% of our shots, 80% of our shots on target but 25% more goals - it's too easy for them to come and get points against us. Read what you want into this, we're making enough chances to score, just lacking that bit of a clinical edge up front - I think our team need to start shooting to score rather than shooting for an attempt at goal. But in the end, we ARE doing enough to compete and stay in this league - which is all I think anyone really wants this year. If we were more clinical, I have no doubt we would be top 6 but realistically that would of been a dream at the start of the season. It may click, it may not. EDIT: Also our defence need to start taking responsibility - not just blame our strikers. 1 clean sheet in 12 competitive games isn't good and we will find it hard to win when we ship a goal in every game. There is no way Hibs should of got a goal from their play last night and if they hadn't we would of came away with a point. Edited October 8, 2013 by read'n'yell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Speaking of stats, are SPl posession stats available anywhere? Would be interesting to see how much posession we had in our home games (Aberdeen excepted as that game is the only home game where the result was legit, in fact it should've been more). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglemon Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 NO WAY should we change our style- if we weren't creating chances I'd be concerned. We seem to have lost similar goals down our left v. Motherwell, St Mirren and Hibs so maybe looking at this side of the defence. It staggered me last night when Hibs scored as they looked 100% happy for a 0-0. Only then did they anything and even then we created all the good chances 2nd half. Frustrating but we're miles better than a lot of these teams and hopefully the table will reflect that come May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 We have completely outplayed Hibs, Hearts and Kilmarnock. Sadly the goals and points don't reflect that. Held our own against everyone except Aberdeen and 45 minutes against Motherwell. Keep the faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglemon Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 The highlights didn't show the goal-line clearance made from(I think) a Balatoni shot at a corner with keeper well beaten- another let off for Hibs. No reason to fear Inverness or Aberdeen (as long as Gabby isn't playing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboy Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I wouldnt go as far as saying its bad tactics. I have always maintained however that an opposition's defence can be troubled by getting the ball on the bye line then crossing in. Defenders for one, hate to be facing their own goal. This gives an opertunity to bring in our attacking midfielders to trouble oposition defences further. This creating better chances for strikers to position themselves for on coming balls. like I said defenders hate facing their own goal, as they cannot control the situation. Firing balls in, before getting to bye line leads to more chances of glancing headers and over hitting. Where as a well placed bye line ball to the edge of the 18 yard box can create more of a threat and rich pickings for strikers. Fergie was a great advocate of that tactic. And it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Had a wee look at the stats - so in an "us" vs "them" format: In the league: Us - Shots .. On Target .. Goals 108 .. 50 .. 8 Them - Shots .. On Target .. Goals 93 .. 40 .. 10 Basically this means we get slightly better ratio for shots on target/per shot as the oppostion (1 in every 2.2 and 1 in 2.3 respectively). However, our shots on target that lead to goals is much worse (1 in 6.3 shots on target are goals, opposed to 1 in 4 for them). Overall, our shots to goals ratio is 1 in 13.5 and oppositions against us is 1 goal in every 9.3 shots. These might just seem like numbers but I think you can read quite a lot into them. It confirms that other teams are far more lethal in front of goal (which we all knew). I've been thinking when we shoot, it seems like we just want to get the shot away and get it near the goal (that way no one will complain) rather than actually trying to score. We have had 25% more shots on target resulting in 20% less goals. In terms of percentages, 16% of our shots on target are goals compared to 25% for opposition. Opposition have had 86% of our shots, 80% of our shots on target but 25% more goals - it's too easy for them to come and get points against us. Read what you want into this, we're making enough chances to score, just lacking that bit of a clinical edge up front - I think our team need to start shooting to score rather than shooting for an attempt at goal. But in the end, we ARE doing enough to compete and stay in this league - which is all I think anyone really wants this year. If we were more clinical, I have no doubt we would be top 6 but realistically that would of been a dream at the start of the season. It may click, it may not. EDIT: Also our defence need to start taking responsibility - not just blame our strikers. 1 clean sheet in 12 competitive games isn't good and we will find it hard to win when we ship a goal in every game. There is no way Hibs should of got a goal from their play last night and if they hadn't we would of came away with a point. Particularly agree about our defending, our opponents simply don't need to work too hard to score against us. How many goals have we conceded this season that are due to lackadaisical defending of one sort or another, as opposed to the ability of the opposition. This is something Archie will need to sort urgently, or I dread to think how many Inverness and to a much greater extent Celtic will score against us. This is something positive we can work on and unlike the scoring problem is a relevantly achievable objective. On both fronts actually the blame such as it is lies with the whole team and not just one or two players. I'm still of the opinion that when it all clicks we're definitely going to give someone a real doing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brick_top Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 From Hibs scoring last night to the final whistle, and probably for about 5 mins afterwards, I was raging. Then I started to think about the game and how we dominated it. I'd be MUCH more worried if we were getting humped every week. We're not, we're outplaying a lot of teams, but just not getting over the line. That will definitely come, but NOT of we make wholesale changes to either the players, or tactics. A few tweaks possibly, but no more than that. Why would we go more direct against a hibs side who have played against teams like that for years? Not as if they wouldn't be able to cope with that. But they couldn't cope with our width and movement last night. Have faith that we're doing the right things (and Doolan always, as most strikers do, goes through some barren spells in front of goal. Then he'll go on a spree and we'll be talking about how many million he's worth again. Strikers, innit?). It's frustrating, of course it is, that things are so near yet seem so far away at the moment, but I'm more than confident that we'll be fine come May. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjag78 Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Theres a lot of talk about certain players not being up to top flight standards but just look at some of the young talent of other teams where the manager isnt scared to try them out in the first team , we're sitting here with a talented bunch of under 21's , why dont some of them , one at a time, get a game and see how they go , cant be any worse than the flops weve been chancing so far !! Dae u actually support thistle m8 cos you've never got a good word to say on here. we still have three quarters of the season to go and your already calling some in the team flops.I ve been to every game this season home and away and i missed three last year i would hardly call any of the boys flops in fact i would say most of them are trying to hold there own and probably trying there best to compete with players that are better than they are used to and managers that are more tactically aware. Also the teams playing youngsters you are talking about are established spl clubs that have bigger budgets and scouting networks than us, it really is sad to see fans stick the boot in to there own team at any opportunity, the boys we have got earned the right to play in this league by winning a trophy last year, they are not world beaters and did anybody really think this would be anything but a hard season. Unfortunatley we are not blessed with an abundance of cash to go and get three or four top class players so our manager who is on a massive learning curve the same as his young team is working with the tools at his disposal and although they havn't set the heather on fire they have created alot of chances and in spells have done really well, yes we need to convert the chances but more importantly we need to stop gifting goals, we have had one clean sheet this season against Dundee utd on the first day that is the real worry for me, and in 12 competitive matches we have scored 14 and conceded 16 how are strikers supposed to have confidence to go forward if the defence is letting them down. Hearts, Hibs, Kilmarnock all had one chance and scored with them and all for me were defensive mistakes that is the difference between 3 points and 9, St johnstone had a few chances but again a defensive error cost us in that match, if the back line had seen those games out without the mistakes and took maximum points we would be tied top with celtic. The team we have is doing ok and the only real gubbings we have had were the first half at Motherwell, Aberdeen ( a team most in the game are tipping to be second this year ) and Dundee utd ( arguably the best strike force outside Celtic ) other than that we have competed well but been a bit wet behind the ears. Bottom line, let the manager and his team learn and let them know we can see them through the bad times as well as the good, i am sure the boys are hurting after a game they know they have dominated and come away with a mugging the last thing they or for that matter fans that want to support there team positivly need to hear is them getting labeled flops. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyprusjag Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Couple of points -99 times out of 100 Craig would miss that chance. We need to have midfielders making runs into the box Finally tell Messi and Iniesta their loan period is up and get them back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm still pissed off by Monday night's defeat. I've seen us lose many a game in the past but this was an especially sore one with it being so unjustified. I don't think I can be bothered with a season of watching us dominate games only to chuck it away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robphil Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 chris duggan scored his seventh goal of the season for the under-20s last night; surely can't be long before he forces his way onto the bench... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I still feel a bit sick when I think back on the manner in which we lost Monday's game. But I comfort myself by thinking that we will probably win a few games in the same manner as Hibs did on Monday. We're not even one quarter of the way through the season. It will come good, though there may be a few rough results ahead before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 chris duggan scored his seventh goal of the season for the under-20s last night; surely can't be long before he forces his way onto the bench... I'd be saying the same thing if we were still in Div 1 sitting in a comfortable mid table position. Duggan may have more potential than the likes of McGuigan but if the latter remains at Firhill from January on he may well be preferred. If we strengthen upfront in January then again Duggan will have to bide his time. Besides I doubt any of our Under 20 prospects will be fast tracked into the first team squad tho' a good few show signs of being able to make the step up in an injury/suspension crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 chris duggan scored his seventh goal of the season for the under-20s last night; surely can't be long before he forces his way onto the bench... Reckon he might go out on loan in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoncordiner Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 The midfielders don't get beyond the striker, at least not through the centre. We need them to be making those runs otherwise the game is always in front of their centre halves and it's harder to score. Last year Erskine and Lawless get beyond the strikers constantly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legend Blows Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Thanks for the heads up on that . You truly are our No1 oracle on all things to do with goal scoring or not goal scoring depending on which way you look at it. The search continues. Looks like Hannes turned out to be the Estonian Mark McWalter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thistlenowthistleforever Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Been reading this since the start of the season. Think we have be very harsh on Baird he's never had a run in the side in and out of 2 cup games which u must admit wasn't the best team performance coming from the high of the league to the smaller and low tempo cup game against lower league teams. He's only started 2 spl games were he done well against st. Mirren and yes he was poor against Aberdeen. Don't think he's really had a chance to be fair maybe needs a run in the side and he's proved he can score goals. Would also like to see two strikers played Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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