Just In Aberdeen Cup Game

[MWM]

Never realise it was the usual whack for that game today. Holy shit, people are mugs.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Can't really see why Baird should start ahead of Lawless. Baird is the better crosser of a ball but that's not too much a priority. Both have decent close control but Baird's first touch is not too good. Don't know how long Duggan is out for but Baird could probably do with some U20 match time. Certainly looked like he needed it last Tues.

I do feel Doolan has been too isolated especially the last couple of games but I don't really get this play two up stuff.. All that will happen is one or both will be drawn back ball chasing. Imo the problem up front is us not getting the attacking midfield in the box early enough. Easier said than done of course.

[Gary Peebles Tackle]

God, you'd think we were beaten by Albion Rovers reading some of these posts!

 

Aberdeen weren't great today & got an early goal from a set piece. Dreadful defending. However, the team didn't chuck it.

 

Some positives to take from it - Piccolo & Elliot decent. Kerr wasn't up to it mind. Welsh looked good when he came on & Baird did some good work. Ozzy, as always, immense.

 

Could be worse. Concentrate on the league now - a win or two & things will look very good again.

 

Oh, and anyone calling for Archie's head etc needs to remember where we came from. Too many on here with short memories...

[Yellow & Redneck]

Absolutely honking. This is the fourth time in as many weeks I've said this, but I don't care: Archie harps on and on and on about not loosing early goals, what happened? Yip, once again, concede early and the game is put to bed. Two defenders in the dugout and we struggle to do the fundamentals of defending competently, very worrying indeed.

 

Once you lose a goal, it's always going to be an uphill battle, but I felt we didn't do enough to get back in the game. Yet again, Doolan isolated completely, which just stifled any attack. I don't know the circumstances we would have to be in for Archie to throw two strikers up front together, but if it was ever called for, it was today. Also, absolutely ineffective from set-pieces.

 

Thought Kerr and Forbes looked completely disinterested today, and whilst he tries very hard, I still have doubts to what Craigen can actually accomplish at this level.

On the bright side, I though Fox played very well, as did Ozzy, who I think may be on of the best I've ever seen at Firhill. Also well done to Piccolo today. Thought he did the simple stuff very well, and looked strong in the tackle. A few more performances like that, and I could see him being genuine competition for Balatoni and Murihead.

 

Anyway, let the droll of the season commence. Not much to look forward to now, but that means 100% focus must be on the league, although investment is essential in January. Disappointed with the match and our style of play, however with events in Glasgow over the past 48hrs, it does put today into perspective.

[Alan Hansen]

Absolutely honking. This is the fourth time in as many weeks I've said this, but I don't care: Archie harps on and on and on about not loosing early goals, what happened? Yip, once again, concede early and the game is put to bed. Two defenders in the dugout and we struggle to do the fundamentals of defending competently, very worrying indeed.

 

Once you lose a goal, it's always going to be an uphill battle, but I felt we didn't do enough to get back in the game. Yet again, Doolan isolated completely, which just stifled any attack. I don't know the circumstances we would have to be in for Archie to throw two strikers up front together, but if it was ever called for, it was today. Also, absolutely ineffective from set-pieces.

 

Thought Kerr and Forbes looked completely disinterested today, and whilst he tries very hard, I still have doubts to what Craigen can actually accomplish at this level.

On the bright side, I though Fox played very well, as did Ozzy, who I think may be on of the best I've ever seen at Firhill. Also well done to Piccolo today. Thought he did the simple stuff very well, and looked strong in the tackle. A few more performances like that, and I could see him being genuine competition for Balatoni and Murihead.

 

Anyway, let the droll of the season commence. Not much to look forward to now, but that means 100% focus must be on the league, although investment is essential in January. Disappointed with the match and our style of play, however with events in Glasgow over the past 48hrs, it does put today into perspective.

 

The game was lost after 5 minutes quite simply six yard box it's got to be the keepers ball,we seem devoid of ideas as the substitutions showed late on as we swapped like for like up front why not both Baird & Doolan or Mukendi up front it would have been worth a try

[Yellow & Redneck]

The game was lost after 5 minutes quite simply six yard box it's got to be the keepers ball,we seem devoid of ideas as the substitutions showed late on as we swapped like for like up front why not both Baird & Doolan or Mukendi up front it would have been worth a try

I know a few don't rate him, but I gotta think that McGuigan will be worth a punt on his return from loan. I think it will help him having better players around him, and if we are going to keep punting the ball up the park like yesterday, he must be good for something.

[p12tfc]

I mentioned this on the other game thread but someone has to get lance or michael back on the tannoy. Fair play to the guy at the moment for doing it but lets be fair hes pretty awful. Maybe its just me but he drains my enthusiam as soon as he starts reading out the line ups. As i said though fair play to him for doing it because i certainly wouldnt.

 

Oh yeah amd Osbourne was good

[cjptfc]

I realise I'm most probably on my own here, but I am a bit more optimistic after yesterday. I was the same as everyone else before the game, feared a humping which never really materialised.

 

For the first time in weeks, we kept ourselves in the game by being tighter at the back. We'll come through this spell we are in at the moment, and to do that it's important to defend well. The goal apart, I felt we were far better at the back. The same issues are apparent at the other end of the park, but if we defend well we will have a chance of taking points in games.

 

Osbourne and Gabriel were excellent I thought. Gabriel deserves a run in the team. Take it Balatoni is suspended so he will take his place, otherwise I'd have left Muirhead out and played Conrad and Gabriel for a few weeks.

 

Capable of taking something from Easter Road next week.

Edited December 2, 2013 by cjptfc

[Mr Bunny]

God, you'd think we were beaten by Albion Rovers reading some of these posts!

 

Aberdeen weren't great today & got an early goal from a set piece. Dreadful defending. However, the team didn't chuck it.

 

Some positives to take from it - Piccolo & Elliot decent. Kerr wasn't up to it mind. Welsh looked good when he came on & Baird did some good work. Ozzy, as always, immense.

 

Could be worse. Concentrate on the league now - a win or two & things will look very good again.

 

Oh, and anyone calling for Archie's head etc needs to remember where we came from. Too many on here with short memories...

 

Well said. Some folk either have short memories or only started supporting us recently. We played a team that were physically stronger and faster and had a better squad all over. We played (with our thin squad) with key players missing or out of their best position. A defeat was always on the cards and a hammering was even possible - something I think that accounts for the poor jags fans turnout.

 

As it happened we didn't get beat badly - and I agree with your positives. We are maybe in the end lucky we had this cup game considering the players we had missing. It gives us time to get O'Donnell back and Welsh got some game time so will hopefully be ready for the next league game. Osbourne of course can be moved back into the middle where we really need him.

 

Actually here's a thought - though I doubt the manager will do it. Gabriel had a good game yesterday so why not keep him in and play Muirhead at right back. Then play O'Donnell on the wing: we've played this set up before. O'Donnell would be free to take on his man when we attack and we'd have an extra defender for set pieces. (Obviously this has to be after Balatoni's over his suspension).

 

Our problem of scoring is not I think that we don't have guys that can score, it's that we don't get enough bodies into the box often enough. We didn't have this problem earlier in the season so I think it must be lack of confidence due to bad results with players being afraid to commit themsleves. Being more solid in defence would help this. I think also in the cup game we tried to play a more 'cup tie' game to make up for our weaknesses on the day and didn't really try to play our usual passing game. We've got to get back to that as holding the ball for spells takes pressure of the defence and helps build confidence.

 

The only other thing I can think of doing is play guys who have an instinct for getting in the box. To my mind this means playing

Baird in the position that Higginbotham is playing just now. I think Higginbotham is better on the wing where he can cross or cut in and shoot. In fact it might be worthwhile trying an attacking midfield of Higginbotham, Baird and Elliot. There's pace, enerergy and and workrate there - and all three can and will shoot.

 

Of course what we need is a lucky break. We've got games coming up where we need to pick up points but they are also games we have a decent chance of doing so. Even a couple of draws would help as that would stop the rot and help rebuild team confidence. Maybe we could get a dodgy penalty and the opposition get a man sent off for no good reason. It's about time we had some luck.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Mr Bunny

[uberteeb]

The short term memory or new to the club quips can be a pretty cheap shot. It is entirely rational for people to be questioning the ability of the manager, I am not saying they are right but away from the stands on a football forum and without insulting him there is no problem with having the discussion.

 

Putting everything about budgets and the ability of the players to one side we are not putting ourselves in a position to win games recently and these are ultimately things that stem from what the management team are telling the players to do.

 

Corner kicks - the most obvious one, their number 5 was heading our corners away from 8 yards out without anyone challenging him. The defending of them, nuff said. Where we stand, what runs we make, who we pick up - surely a manager (and assistant) who were exellent defenders should be doing a lot better here?

 

Pressing - we don't really do it anymore, Aberdeen were passing it around deep in their own half for a few full minutes before the rustling of the crowd finally encouraged someone to make a cursory jog towards them. The same can largely be said for the past few games. The manager must be telling them what to do here? There are of course counter arguements to this, not least because we pressed less than any other time yesterday and only conceeded one goal. If he has made a conscious effort to change it and we are still adjusting to it then fair play to the manager, but it's something that can at least be mentioned.

 

Support from the midfield - non existant. We don't make runs beyond the striker anymore, we don't pass and bomb foward, we pass and do a few side steps to create an extra yard of space in an equally undangerous position. This has been a problem all season really as Erskine was the one doing it last year. The rare times we do get player forward in open play you end up in bizarre situations with 3 Thistle players wedged in the rectangle between the edge of the box and the edge of the pitch, it doesn't take us anywhere.

 

Plan B - we still don't have one, we don't really change the formation or tactics during the game. Yesterday we sat deeper and the full backs didn't go forward (not least because one of them couldn't), but if you are going to remove the one genuinely dangerous thing we do then you need to tell someone else to do something else otherwise nothing happens. Yesterday nothing happened.

 

There is no real dissent from the stands yet and there is no suggestion Archie is on borrowed time at all but it doesn't make you any less of a Jags fan to openly question some of the things that are going on, particuarly on a forum which exists for exactly this type of discussion. There are counter-arguements to most of the above and having worse players than everyone else is the main factor.

 

For the avoidance of doubt I happen to believe we will finish above the play offs and Archie will not be sacked. I think I may have been one of the first to seriously question McNamara, I was wrong and premature on that one, equally likely the same can be said for the above.

[The Cup]

If Archie wasn't a legend more people would want him gone.

 

Even Gary Locke and his Under 21 team can beat Aberdeen.

[Rid Skwerr]

If Archie wasn't a legend more people would want him gone.

 

Even Gary Locke and his Under 21 team can beat Aberdeen.

They can also lose 7 to Celtic. (We didn't)

 

[ColinKelvin]

If Archie wasn't a legend more people would want him gone.

 

Even Gary Locke and his Under 21 team can beat Aberdeen.

 

We're 9th in the table at the start of December in our first season back. Everyone knows we need strengthening in January and are suffering a dip in form and confidence (as were St Mirren at the start of the season, which they turned around). Let's see if we can get a couple in in January. I am sure Archie knows that he needs to shake things up a bit in terms of approach too. He's not stupid. Would you like to swap places with Hearts? No, I didn't think so....

 

Calling for the manager's head at this stage is absolute madness (as are the rest of your bonkers posts).

[scotty]

Firhill is a really changed place since the expectations and high hopes of the end of last season.

Both on and off the park there is a feeling that we, the fans, are being let down.

I went into the north stand for this game and to be honest wont be doing that again. It's not that the atmosphere was bad but it wasn't enough to make up for the poorer view of the game and missing the auld moany gits I'm usually surrounded by.

 

After Aberdeen's goal went in there was almost a feeling in the air that it was going to be a long ninety minutes and that the result was inevitable. We've got three more chances to see a home win this year and I doubt many of us are really expecting one.

Off the park very few of the things we were looking forward to have actually materialised. Last season's DVD is still nowhere to be seen, TAG has faded into a memory, the catering is no better (or at least I guess it is as I wont be trying it until I hear different).

Some of the downs, Thistle have no control over. The amount of games we've had televised and therefore not played on a Saturday at 3.00pm is beyond a joke.

The things the club should be doing though, are things which would make being a Jag's fan so much better.

Access to video highlights on the club website, a match-day announcer who brings a bit of excitement to the pre match build up and doesn't screw up the minutes silence by announcing it while the photos are still being taken, a website which gives details of entry to a cup game on the morning of a match, cutting the cost of a televised match on a Sunday morning and lots of other little things could really help make the match day experience that bit better.

On the park it's the manager's job to get results and if Archie can keep us up then I'll be happy. But the rest of the stuff needs to be sorted too. We were outnumbered on Saturday by fans who had to travel 150 mile to get here. This will happen more and more if the match day package isn't sorted out.

Maybe it's overly high expectations but the Premiership has not been a particularly good experience so far.

[Fearchar]

....Putting everything about budgets and the ability of the players to one side we are not putting ourselves in a position to win games recently and these are ultimately things that stem from what the management team are telling the players to do.

 

Corner kicks - the most obvious one, their number 5 was heading our corners away from 8 yards out without anyone challenging him. The defending of them, nuff said. Where we stand, what runs we make, who we pick up - surely a manager (and assistant) who were exellent defenders should be doing a lot better here?

 

Pressing - we don't really do it anymore, Aberdeen were passing it around deep in their own half for a few full minutes before the rustling of the crowd finally encouraged someone to make a cursory jog towards them. The same can largely be said for the past few games. The manager must be telling them what to do here? There are of course counter arguements to this, not least because we pressed less than any other time yesterday and only conceeded one goal. If he has made a conscious effort to change it and we are still adjusting to it then fair play to the manager, but it's something that can at least be mentioned.

 

Support from the midfield - non existant. We don't make runs beyond the striker anymore, we don't pass and bomb foward, we pass and do a few side steps to create an extra yard of space in an equally undangerous position. This has been a problem all season really as Erskine was the one doing it last year. The rare times we do get player forward in open play you end up in bizarre situations with 3 Thistle players wedged in the rectangle between the edge of the box and the edge of the pitch, it doesn't take us anywhere.

 

Plan B - we still don't have one, we don't really change the formation or tactics during the game. Yesterday we sat deeper and the full backs didn't go forward (not least because one of them couldn't), but if you are going to remove the one genuinely dangerous thing we do then you need to tell someone else to do something else otherwise nothing happens. Yesterday nothing happened.

.....

 

This team loves to get the ball down the wings and keeps getting trapped there. The more direct approach, going from midfield into or near to the penalty box, takes less physical effort, is more likely to lead to a scoring opportunity and.....is ignored by our midfielders. Given an opportunity to pass out to the wing or to pass into the danger area in front of goal, our players always choose the former. There are whole teams that never go near the wings, in some of the world's top leagues, but we seem to be obsessed with the British habit of getting to the byline and crossing a ball into the general area of the goalmouth, in the hope of a defensive error. That's a weak apology for tactics. It has been mentioned before, but maybe this team really needs some coaching in attacking skills. After all, the Scottish game is full of gigantic centre backs: surely it can't be too difficult to figure out that crossing into the box isn't the best way to negate their strengths.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

This team loves to get the ball down the wings and keeps getting trapped there. The more direct approach, going from midfield into or near to the penalty box, takes less physical effort, is more likely to lead to a scoring opportunity and.....is ignored by our midfielders. Given an opportunity to pass out to the wing or to pass into the danger area in front of goal, our players always choose the former. There are whole teams that never go near the wings, in some of the world's top leagues, but we seem to be obsessed with the British habit of getting to the byline and crossing a ball into the general area of the goalmouth, in the hope of a defensive error. That's a weak apology for tactics. It has been mentioned before, but maybe this team really needs some coaching in attacking skills. After all, the Scottish game is full of gigantic centre backs: surely it can't be too difficult to figure out that crossing into the box isn't the best way to negate their strengths.

 

I get you gist but unless you've missed many games this season the biggest criticism of our attacking play has surely been overplaying it in front of goal. The other valid criticism is balls not coming in from the flanks early enough. I do agree that a final ball from SOD, ATS or whoever when delayed is unlikely to often trouble big experienced defenders but a ball whipped in early can easily.

Possibly passing thru the middle more often rather than routinely heading down the flanks would be productive but that's where we miss Erskine. Or put another way Erskine last season was so effective attacking thru the middle it added a completely different dimension to our play. Without someone like that, and the only guy in the squad that could effect that role, Higginbotham, is as yet untried centrally, we just get tied up in knots. The movement is good but we just get too intricate.

Until we have that Chris Erskine type of play thru the middle our passing game will always favour playing it wide.

[Yellow & Redneck]

Our play this season reminds me of the McCall era. Getting the ball and playing tippy-tappy stuff around the edge of the box, that is ultimately cleared. Dundee Utd and Aberdeen in particular this season have shown some fine examples of cutting through-balls to cut open a defence, as opposed to ourselves who always play the ball to feet or behind the attackers, giving them little chance to run onto it and take it with momentum.

[uberteeb]

I get you gist but unless you've missed many games this season the biggest criticism of our attacking play has surely been overplaying it in front of goal. The other valid criticism is balls not coming in from the flanks early enough. I do agree that a final ball from SOD, ATS or whoever when delayed is unlikely to often trouble big experienced defenders but a ball whipped in early can easily.

Possibly passing thru the middle more often rather than routinely heading down the flanks would be productive but that's where we miss Erskine. Or put another way Erskine last season was so effective attacking thru the middle it added a completely different dimension to our play. Without someone like that, and the only guy in the squad that could effect that role, Higginbotham, is as yet untried centrally, we just get tied up in knots. The movement is good but we just get too intricate.

Until we have that Chris Erskine type of play thru the middle our passing game will always favour playing it wide.

 

The question then surely must be why aren't we telling Higginbotham (or other attacking midfielders) to do what Erskine did last season? He was a rare talent and a bit of an enigma but it can't be the case he was improvising the entire time last season.

 

Our play through the middle gets blocked up on the edge of the D, all of the attacking players should be looking to play it into Doolan's (or whoever's) feet and bust a gut to get past him and in behind the defenders to get onto a through flick. That doesn't happen either.

 

We also aren't breaking with pace, if Archie told the full baks to sit back a bit (which he is perfectly entiteld to do with 7 goals shipped to Aberdeen in 2 games) then he needs to get the midfielders bolting up the park as soon as possible, there was no real urgency in that yesterday. We aren't really playing much good stuff right now going forward. And when the areas where we did look a real threat (full backs up the wing, pressing the opposition to win the ball high up the field and breaking up the park in the blink of an eye) aren't really much of a threat.

 

It could very well be the case that he's trying to evolve us into something different having realised we needed change a month or so ago and that we will come out of this stronger once the players adapt to it. We just look a bit rudderless just now.

[Garscube Road End]

Dons go to Celtic in next round.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

The question then surely must be why aren't we telling Higginbotham (or other attacking midfielders) to do what Erskine did last season? He was a rare talent and a bit of an enigma but it can't be the case he was improvising the entire time last season.

 

Our play through the middle gets blocked up on the edge of the D, all of the attacking players should be looking to play it into Doolan's (or whoever's) feet and bust a gut to get past him and in behind the defenders to get onto a through flick. That doesn't happen either.

 

We also aren't breaking with pace, if Archie told the full baks to sit back a bit (which he is perfectly entiteld to do with 7 goals shipped to Aberdeen in 2 games) then he needs to get the midfielders bolting up the park as soon as possible, there was no real urgency in that yesterday. We aren't really playing much good stuff right now going forward. And when the areas where we did look a real threat (full backs up the wing, pressing the opposition to win the ball high up the field and breaking up the park in the blink of an eye) aren't really much of a threat.

 

It could very well be the case that he's trying to evolve us into something different having realised we needed change a month or so ago and that we will come out of this stronger once the players adapt to it. We just look a bit rudderless just now.

 

The answer to that could be the obvious. A combination of not having an Erskine and being a division up in class. Higginbotham is given a bit of latitude but it's both far from the freer role Erskine had and in any case largely a wider role.

 

Somehow in the absence of crossing to the fabled big target man guaranteeing x number of goals we've got to get players up beside and ideally breaking past Doolan far more often. A bit like how Osbourne got into a goalscoring position in the final minute or so yesterday tho' that should've been Craigen or Welsh.

[The Sunnylaw Jag]

There is a severe lack of confidence on the park or indeed off it, that pervades everything we do at the moment. We have went from world beaters to worse than East Fife within a month with the same players. We have been opened up quite easily by Dundee United and Aberdeen in particular. The St. Mirren game was an aberration, but we did well to beat Inverness which was a game we didn't look like losing at any point. Against Celtic I'm sure we would all agree we put in a good performance and could've come away with a point. As to yesterday, it was obvious from the moment the goal went in , heads went down on the park and in the stands. I do think a team that did so well last year, was badly supported yesterday due to the absence of some many fans. If this forum is anything to go by, no doubt that will continue. I do not go into Saturday's game with any real trepidation as we are clearly a better football team than Hibs and we have some games in December I believe we can win.

[Mr Bunny]

The short term memory or new to the club quips can be a pretty cheap shot. It is entirely rational for people to be questioning the ability of the manager, I am not saying they are right but away from the stands on a football forum and without insulting him there is no problem with having the discussion.

 

As far as I can see the short memory quips (certainly mine) are aimed at the guys who are suggesting the team is in an awful state/the worst it's been. I accept folk have a right to criticise the team even if you think they're wrong. Not that I think they completely are: we obviously have problems and need to fix them. But one can be critical without going overboard.

 

The rest of your post which I didn't quote was a good run down of some of the problems.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Mr Bunny

[Meister Jag]

I thought that on the few occasions we went at Aberdeen with ball at feet through the middle we caused them problems. I think every teak expects us to attack dow the flanks at speed. Why not mix it up a wee bit? ATS had a good second half and was roaming to push us up the pitch.

 

Not all doom and gloom. Sh*** crowd though - more Dons fans than Jags fans? (I've not checked the attendances thread!)

[Paulo]

I'm over the horrible feeling of watching that game now, so I'll focus on the positives.

 

Gabriel looked good. Elliot tried, tried again and at least looked to show some direct and quick movement.

 

I thought we stepped up a gear when Baird came on. He hassled the defenders for the ball and provided for Higgy and Lawless. I still don't think he's a main striker, but if we play the system we went to on Sunday (one up, with one supporting), I'd like to see him play that supporting role, with Higgy out wide again. I feel like Higgy is more effective when driving infield, can tempt a centre back out of position.