St Mirren Again

[Willjag]

When Higgy is not on top form we struggle creatively. Wonder if he is carrying a knock?

Looked as if he took a sore one from a Goodwin tackle in the first half that took him a while to shake off. With Stevenson and Craigen pretty much sitting just behind Doolan, I wonder if Higgy is being asked to do a bit more defensively? Seemed to always be picking up the ball further back and not in the best place to risk losing it if dispossessed. Perhaps once Carroll settles into the side and they get to know each others game a bit better, we'll start to see him come on.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

Playing the same opposition in the cup, so soon after meeting them in the league, I thought Archie might have mixed it up a little more than just the 2(?) changes in the starting line up. Still early doors in the season, and i'd say it's still very debateable what our strongest 1st XI is. However, we won in the end and in Archie I still trust.

 

The pragmatist may say, a league win would have been better, but I'd argue. Of course every league game is crucial till we realise safety from relegation, but it's a long season, we should've held our lead and merited at least a draw on friday. We'll have another 2 chances, at least, to take points off the Buddies and it's clear we're capable of doing that. If I'd been offered 10th in the league and a cup final, or a 6th place finish i'd struggle to give an answer. Survival in our 2nd season is the important thing. Last time we were up we did not manage it, and it still makes me shiver thinking about where we ended up. I ain't predicting a cup win, but the club we just knocked out did it not so long ago and killie the season before them. For a club like ours there is still considerable prestige in the league cup if we can compete. I think there is a comparable balance between that and the financial gains of climbing the ladder by a couple of rungs.

 

Glad to see Nathan get off the mark, even if it was a tap in. Good that Lawless is maintaining his current good form. Carrol seems to be a good find and Seabourne is proving a good purchase that both Balatoni and Muirhead have to aspire to challenge. Stevenson needs to explain to the gaffer what it is he does best and Archie, if he can accomodate, give it a chance. Ryan is a better player than what we've seen. Osman is a pivitol player right now and I wish the club would release more on Welsh's condition. Is Higgy gettin his Nat King ok? Seems a bit down just now. ... ....

 

Anywayz.... Dreich mid-week cup ties are nothing new. We scraped through... Celebrate, look for the positives, note and work on the negatives, don't panic.

 

Edited September 24, 2014 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[Dark Passenger]

Elliott and craigen need a run of games to establish themselves instead of the usual 10 minute cameos

 

Both of them are squad players. They're handy to have around, but I don't think either of them will ever become regular starters. It might seem harsh to say, but the two players mentioned are among those likely to be shipped out as/should we establish ourselves as a top-flight team.

[Gibberish]

 

 

Both of them are squad players. They're handy to have around, but I don't think either of them will ever become regular starters. It might seem harsh to say, but the two players mentioned are among those likely to be shipped out as/should we establish ourselves as a top-flight team.

This, so Stevenson is a 1st team player

[JaggyMad]

This, so Stevenson is a 1st team player

 

In Archie's eyes I would say ...yes.

[Dark Passenger]

This, so Stevenson is a 1st team player

 

I think so, yes. The fact he's disappointed some (all?) doesn't mean he worse than others.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Both of them are squad players. They're handy to have around, but I don't think either of them will ever become regular starters. It might seem harsh to say, but the two players mentioned are among those likely to be shipped out as/should we establish ourselves as a top-flight team.

 

But you still need squad players. At the moment I wouldn't bracket the two together as Craigen is way off what I think he might be able to do. He really should be pushing on by now tho' if he doesn't get sufficient game time it's a good bit harder. The annoying thing is Craigen can play all day and never appear to tire. But that's not much use if the material ain't there.

 

Christie I feel is by and large doing a good job. He's no way a game changer and, before it sounds as if I've deleted my short term memory folder, I'm not forgetting about last night when he did for once change the game. I think tho', squad player as he is, he's got certain strengths (literally as well as figuratively) that make him of value to us. The only problem as I see it is Elliott's far better coming on when we're winning a game (or drawing against better teams away from home) tho' that's of course not his fault if we aren't.

 

At this moment in time I guess we could strengthen the squad, without spending, by trading Craigen. I doubt we could improve on Elliott without increasing the wage bill. Whatever, a lot can change in three or four months and I could have a completely different opinion come January.

Edited September 24, 2014 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Gibberish]

 

 

I think so, yes. The fact he's disappointed some (all?) doesn't mean he worse than others.

He is

[potty trained]

He is

 

It's such valuable detailed insight, like your post above, that makes you one of my favorite posters on here. Every day's a school day.

[Gibberish]

 

 

It's such valuable detailed insight, like your post above, that makes you one of my favorite posters on here. Every day's a school day.

Please feel free to educate me where I'm wrong, in my assessment of Stevenson.

[Dark Passenger]

But you still need squad players.

 

Yes, but the poster I replied to seemed to be suggesting they have the potential to be regular starters, which I just don't see unless injury dictates it.

 

He is

 

Cool, m8.

[Dark Passenger]

Please feel free to educate me where I'm wrong, in my assessment of Stevenson.

 

He isn't any worse than James Craigen.

[potty trained]

Please feel free to educate me where I'm wrong, in my assessment of Stevenson.

 

So far you have told us:

 

He is worse than "others", that Archie has a lovefest for Stevenson, that League 1 is Stevenson (and Craigan's) level, that the team is picked to accommodate Stevenson, a game a week is killing Stevenson.

 

Forgive me, but that's not a lot to go on.

 

I don't think he is worse than others, we have no one from the same mold to compare.

 

I can see why Archie signed him, Craigan had no competition for the attacking midfield role last season and it burned him out. Stevenson comes with an incredible amount of experience in the top league in Scotland. That experience can only help the naivity of the team. Naivety of youth and inexperience.

 

It is clear to see his leadership qualities on the pitch, as he is continually talking to those around him.

 

I completely disagree that the team is picked to accommodate him, for that to be the case we would have changed formation. we haven't and in fact very little players have changed around him.

 

I don't think a game a week is killing him, i'd say at his age, it is helping him get to full fitness.

 

We have only played 6 league games, there is a huge way to go and it is far too early to be writing players off.

 

I would have liked Stevenson to have contributed more, certainly a couple of goals. But i am not blind to what he does on the park.

 

It should be remembered that half the spine of our team has changed from last season with Seaborne, Osman and Stevenson coming into the starting 11.

[Gibberish]

 

 

He isn't any worse than James Craigen.

So this warrants my original question, what separates our so called first team players from our squad players, does Archie feel he has to play Stevenson to justify his outlay?

[Dark Passenger]

So this warrants my original question, what separates our so called first team players from our squad players, does Archie feel he has to play Stevenson to justify his outlay?

 

I said he wasn't any worse, which in hindsight suggests I think both are equally as poor...I actually think Stevenson's the better, if less energetic, option.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

So this warrants my original question, what separates our so called first team players from our squad players, does Archie feel he has to play Stevenson to justify his outlay?

 

I'd argue we are still to find our strongest starting 11, and even when we have a clearer vision of what it might be, others must be persistant in challenging that opinion. So there is nothing to seperate our so called first team players from our squad players.

 

There are still areas where we're lacking strong competition or even a bit short on cover, but i'd hope those first names on the teamsheet do not think they have guaranteed places.

 

I don't think Archie has picked around Stevenson but possibly is a little guilty of shoe-horning him into the team. I think the player we are all, most, consistently, precious about is Higgy, and justifiably so. However, personally I'd like to see some confidence put in the rest of the squad to perform without him from the start. It might be beneficial to shuffle the pack a bit in the midfield where we are strong (at least in numbers) and free up a bit of space for others like Stevenson, Lawless, Bannigan, Fraser, Craigen to find where and how they can contribute the most.

 

For me Higgy is our "best" player but, I don't think we are so weak, or lack the depth or ability to experiment with positions for others and the shape of the team. I like the way the team played over the last 2 seasons, but we have to evolve, and transfers in and out dictate that. Archie was acused of staying too loyal to the players that won us promotion but I think it was perhaps loyalty to the system. Not criticising or rejecting the style or intent of attacking, passing, quick movement... etc... but it was evidently harder to execute successfully in the premier league if still at times effective. We have to accept some of our mainstays of the last 2years have been rewarded for their efforts with us by winning a chance of a salary that we simply cannot match.

 

I maintain the view that we have a rare and exceptional group of young talented players on the up. We have lost a few over the last 2 seasons, and they are very difficult to replace. But the manager deserves credit for holding onto some excellent talent that could be of genuine proven value at other clubs above and below us in Scottish football. To my mind the signings this summer are potentially better than the previous pre-season (Taylor came in on loan in January remember!) and if just 2 of them go on to be solid regulars then i'd say Archie's done very well in consideration of his budget.

 

Subtle not drastic changes, but bold and confident ones I think are needed or we may find ourselves reverting back to survival football.

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

We have only played 6 league games, there is a huge way to go and it is far too early to be writing players off.

 

I'd said six league games is like an eternity on this website. There's talented folk on here who are perfectly capable of writing players off without even seeing them play.

[potty trained]

I'd argue we are still to find our strongest starting 11, and even when we have a clearer vision of what it might be, others must be persistant in challenging that opinion. So there is nothing to seperate our so called first team players from our squad players.

 

There are still areas where we're lacking strong competition or even a bit short on cover, but i'd hope those first names on the teamsheet do not think they have guaranteed places.

 

I don't think Archie has picked around Stevenson but possibly is a little guilty of shoe-horning him into the team. I think the player we are all, most, consistently, precious about is Higgy, and justifiably so. However, personally I'd like to see some confidence put in the rest of the squad to perform without him from the start. It might be beneficial to shuffle the pack a bit in the midfield where we are strong (at least in numbers) and free up a bit of space for others like Stevenson, Lawless, Bannigan, Fraser, Craigen to find where and how they can contribute the most.

 

For me Higgy is our "best" player but, I don't think we are so weak, or lack the depth or ability to experiment with positions for others and the shape of the team. I like the way the team played over the last 2 seasons, but we have to evolve, and transfers in and out dictate that. Archie was acused of staying too loyal to the players that won us promotion but I think it was perhaps loyalty to the system. Not criticising or rejecting the style or intent of attacking, passing, quick movement... etc... but it was evidently harder to execute successfully in the premier league if still at times effective. We have to accept some of our mainstays of the last 2years have been rewarded for their efforts with us by winning a chance of a salary that we simply cannot match.

 

I maintain the view that we have a rare and exceptional group of young talented players on the up. We have lost a few over the last 2 seasons, and they are very difficult to replace. But the manager deserves credit for holding onto some excellent talent that could be of genuine proven value at other clubs above and below us in Scottish football. To my mind the signings this summer are potentially better than the previous pre-season (Taylor came in on loan in January remember!) and if just 2 of them go on to be solid regulars then i'd say Archie's done very well in consideration of his budget.

 

Subtle not drastic changes, but bold and confident ones I think are needed or we may find ourselves reverting back to survival football.

 

 

Spot on, close the thread.

[Fearchar]

...I completely disagree that the team is picked to accommodate him, for that to be the case we would have changed formation. we haven't and in fact very little players have changed around him....

 

So he has affected Stevie Lawless? I wondered where his new burst of endeavour had come from.

[Richard Nixon]

Jesus, the average IQ of this thread dropped sharply I see ...

[The Cup]

The defence is rancid without Seabourne. It's a shame he's obviously a crock and only good for around half our games.

 

If we can stay near to the others teams until January we can then ship out the duds like Muirhead and Craigen and bring in better players.

I am hoping Taylor will come back on loan.

[Woodstock Jag]

That was a pretty dreadful game. The neutral would have wanted both teams to be eliminated.

 

Seaborne was excellent in defence, but clearly doesn't trust Fox behind him, which given the latter's recent form is entirely reasonable. Osman had an excellent game and is really proving to be a player, and Lawless looks much more up for it this season than last. However, Doolan was completely isolated for most of the game, Higginbotham wasn't on his usual "I AM LION HEAR ME ROAR" form, Bannigan was very untidy and Stevenson was bloody useless when he came on for someone equally useless last night in Craigan.

 

Goodwin had an excellent game for them and Osborne did quite well for them too.

 

That's all I've really got to say. We're in the draw I guess!

[lady-isobel-barnett]

That was a pretty dreadful game. The neutral would have wanted both teams to be eliminated.

 

Seaborne was excellent in defence, but clearly doesn't trust Fox behind him, which given the latter's recent form is entirely reasonable. Osman had an excellent game and is really proving to be a player, and Lawless looks much more up for it this season than last. However, Doolan was completely isolated for most of the game, Higginbotham wasn't on his usual "I AM LION HEAR ME ROAR" form, Bannigan was very untidy and Stevenson was bloody useless when he came on for someone equally useless last night in Craigan.

 

Goodwin had an excellent game for them and Osborne did quite well for them too.

 

That's all I've really got to say. We're in the draw I guess!

 

I thought both Osman and Osbourne had very good matches. A kinda lower SPFL club version of a Viera/Keane clash. Both were very commanding and perhaps that's not something a neutral would wish for. They're both at their best breaking up the other team's play. Granted that wasn't exactly a Herculean task last night but apart from Wee Lawless I don't think there was another player on the pitch that could be totally satisfied with his own display.

Edited September 24, 2014 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Lambies Lost Doo]

Watching BBC highlights at Celtic v Hearts they said it's only the 2nd time we've beaten St Mirren at home in 32 years. What a statistic if true.

[allyo]

Was just looking at Robert Reid's article on the official site, featuring our 3-1 win over St Mirren in the Cup. Was shocked to discover it was over 25 years ago as I remember it so well. At the time it was Thistle's best result in the time that I'd been going to games regularly, particularly sweet as I lived in Barrhead and had a lot of Saints supporters at school. But what really struck me is that I remember not only every single one of the Thistle players featured, but also virtually the whole St Mirren team. I couldn't name more than two or three players playing for St Mirren last night. Strange the things that stay with you.