La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Given the pitiful attendance in the North Stand, perhaps it's time for a rethink? We've had the previously failed attempt to fill it. On Sunday, most fans overwhelmingly rejected it. Instead they opted for an outdated main stand with poor facilities and poor view. Why is that? I appreciate this is an emotive subject but at a time when the vast majority of fans are being messed about, i don't think we can afford to have no go areas. I have no issue with giving over a certain area for standing, singing etc but a whole stand seems complete overkill. Perhaps the first x rows at the back? Why can't we just use the JH stand? Use the NS as a mixed fan(home and away) , family stand ? For example? Genuinely interested to hear what others think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I think the poor uptake in the NS is due to fans reticence to sit behind a goal - you get a significantly poorer view when we're shooting towards the bing. However the fact that we have a stand where we can stand and sing is a massive improvement on the morgue that Firhill has been for most of my time supporting Thistle - I think it's been a success, can be an even greater success and is the last thing we should change. It's amazing that we have a 11,000 seat stadium and an average gate of 3,500 yet we continually debate how to change out seating... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I've been waiting for this Colin - you've been working towards it for some weeks now so I'm glad you finally got it out there. Having our fans in the NS was never about filling the stand. It was about improving the atmosphere in the satdium. Surely there can be no argument that it's done that. Give the NS back to away fans and I'm afraid the atmosphere would disappear instantly. We aren't able to fill any of our stands at the moment so it's unfair to single out the NS. Without the NS the matchday experience would be even worse that it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 No. It's not time for a rethink. Obviously. Moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hosie Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I think the poor uptake in the NS is due to fans reticence to sit behind a goal - you get a significantly poorer view when we're shooting towards the bing. However the fact that we have a stand where we can stand and sing is a massive improvement on the morgue that Firhill has been for most of my time supporting Thistle - I think it's been a success, can be an even greater success and is the last thing we should change. It's amazing that we have a 11,000 seat stadium and an average gate of 3,500 yet we continually debate how to change out seating... Part of the problem is the size of the stands that we have. The JH is, sadly, too big for our support. Since it opened I can only recall it being full of Thistle fans once. The Ayr United relegation game. Even the Morton game a few years ago there were Morton fans at the far end of the stand though had the NS not being a Thistle stand then the JH capacity would obviously have been tested that night. I can't think of a solution that doesn't piss off some section of our support. It was horrible to see the JH stand full of Celtic fans yesterday that bothered me personally more than seeing the NS Stand full of Celtic fans. That's because I have an emotional attachment to the JH stand which I don't have with the NS. I've never watched a game from there. Others will have the totally opposite view from me which is what makes it a virtually impossible problem to find a solution to short of finding the 6,000+ Jags fans you would need to fill the JH and NS on a regular basis. The situation doesn't need so much of a rethink as a rebuild of the stadium. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Two points: I was a NS early adopter. I can honestly say that the first match it was open to our support (Falkirk) was the most fun I had had at Firhill to that date. This is despite the fact that there was only a handful of us there. The North Stand has dramatically improved my match day experience, and is the reason I started buying a season ticket. As for giving the whole stand over to Singers/Standers, this is not really the case. There is plenty of space in the stand to sit quietly if you desire. The singers tend to congregate near the back/more centrally. Many sit in the NS. Edited August 10, 2015 by Duke Gekantawa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Following on from Tom's point, i think we are futher hamstrung because the club don't own the main stand? One option might have been to do a JH type fan funded deal to rehabiltate the MS. This would give us a new facility that would house all of the support and lift the atmosphere. Like Tom, i have an attachment to the JH stand and helped fund it. However, it is just far too big now for our needs. To have the Thistle support split over two stands is just plain daft in my opinion. How is it the atmosphere at away games can be achieved but not at Firhill? Be interested to see the stewarding and catering costs of having to "police" /serve 3 stands rather than 2. Or 1. I think the NS worked at a time when we were down on our luck. Not sure it's reqd now? Surely nothing wrong with re-evaluating? If we can move the people who built the JH stand at a moment's notice, we can surely discuss the merits of something that's been in place for 3/4 seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Was absolutely astonished at the crowd in the NS yesterday. We can fill that away stand behind the goal at Hamilton, yet when we play at Firhill against Celtic, our allocated smallest stand is more than half empty. Don't know what the answer is, but I enjoy the NS and you do get a decent view if you sit near the back. Firhill was morgue like before the NS idea and I for one would not like to see that atmosphere return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p12tfc Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 In an ideal world if like to see jags fans in jh and north stand with away fans at north end of Jackie husband. I'm sure there will be some stupid health and safety reason why this wouldn't be allowed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Given the pitiful attendance in the North Stand, perhaps it's time for a rethink? pitiful post more like from op, but as i'm killing time, i'll humour you and rebutt your statements with reasoned facts, observations and thoughts. We've had the previously failed attempt to fill it. On Sunday, most fans overwhelmingly rejected it. Instead they opted for an outdated main stand with poor facilities and poor view. Why is that? filled it fine for morton game. pars game soon after. it's had a number of healthy attendances on plenty other occasions, and more to point, away supports have not filled the areas allocated to them ..... therefore not giving opponents the north stand has not meant ptfc has lost out on any revenue/had to lock out any away fans. not one occasion. as for "overwhelmingly rejected it" ..... last season almost 40% of st holders rejected attending the green bums fixture ..... how many yesterday? if you were a jhs st holder you automatically got a main stand ticket. it would be interesting to know the percentage of ns st holders who rejected going, and the percentage of jhs st holders who rejected going. i'd wager the jhs drop off to be equal or greater in percentage terms than that of the ns. I appreciate this is an emotive subject but at a time when the vast majority of fans are being messed about, i don't think we can afford to have no go areas. the only no go area of firhill is the bing. up until it's creation, we had a four sided stadium. and perhaps therein lies a problem. if we had four stands (or terracing hadn't been prematurely removed), we likely would have no requirement to shift any season ticket holders (or patg attendees). but we are where we are, what's done is done and all that, and until a lottery winner or hugely rich businessman puts millions upon millions into thistle, we won't have any stand on the bing. an elongated bus shelter maybe, but a stand (or safe terraced area of 1500/2500) of note, no. I have no issue with giving over a certain area for standing, singing etc but a whole stand seems complete overkill. see point above. plus as others have already resoundingly said, it's not about filling it every week, it's not about lack of seating elsewhere in the stadium confines, it's about matchday experience, creating an atmosphere, making the best use of our three sided ground. without what the ns and those who populate it give, firhill would be a soulless atmosphere devoid ground. is that what you want mono rojo? Perhaps the first x rows at the back? Why can't we just use the JH stand? Use the NS as a mixed fan(home and away) , family stand ? For example? Genuinely interested to hear what others think. anything but the ns for thistle fans only, is ultimately what you're getting at, isn't it hmmmm? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I was equally disappointed with the turn out in the Main Stand, as I was with the turn out in the North stand. I certainly won't be using a word like pitiful. That to me is quite a disrespectful term to use. Likewise, I have no real want, to enter into a long drawn out fishing trip or trolling exercise, so I'll lay my opinion out and leave it at that. I'll suggest a 30% drop in NS fans. From 700 to 450 or 500 yesterday. That would suggest a crowd of 1300 in the MS. Quite possibly a similar drop of about 30% I look forward to a thread stating we should close the JHS we don't need it. After all as long as we are using 1 game as the benchmark for the whole season, why not. It wasn't that long ago the JHS singing section was 60 folk standing across 2 or 3 rows. What has been achieved since, should be celebrated. Well, it would be, if we stood together as one fan base instead of creating a them and us attitude. Rather than point fingers, create majorities and minorities, and as stated, create a them and us attitude. I'd rather we worked together to get the fans back who didn't attend, yesterday. One fanbase. One Thistle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted August 10, 2015 Members Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 The Main Stand were my Brother and I sat yesterday was packed and we struggled a bit to find a seat, others filtered out and into other areas. Wasn't impressed with the view, missed Celtic's first goal, the handball and the pass for Celtic's second goal. There will be 2 more in the North Stand next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 As both the JHS (support in MS) and NS were both down by 30%, does it make sense to effectively piss of the 500 or so fans in the NS and potentially drop our home attendances further? Or should the club (if not already doing it) start cold calling ST holders who have stopped coming and work out why? The NS offers the fans 1 matchday experience whilst the JHS offers a different one, potentially spreading our net to appeal to more fans (by Christ do we need them). You keep stating the BoD are doing a great job, but on this matter is like to see what their plan is? Why are fans not coming back? Is it a certain demographic? We can get all the great sponsorships, wacky mascots, free masks etc you like but this is diverting our eyes from our real problem--- the massive drop in our home support. Trying to divide the fan base will do more harm than good as I mentioned in a different thread, where you'd mentioned preferencial treatment for one slice of our demographic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 PMSL The JH stand move gets welcomed by the North Standers but when someone mentions the North Stand the knicker wetting begins ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 PMSL The JH stand move gets welcomed by the North Standers but when someone mentions the North Stand the knicker wetting begins ! I'm a JHS ST holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 PMSL The JH stand move gets welcomed by the North Standers but when someone mentions the North Stand the knicker wetting begins ! Except they're not remotely comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeless Unbeliever Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Blows my mind that people bicker amongst their own fans over things like this. The JH is obviously big enough to accommodate everyone. The North Stand is better for generating atmosphere. If the guys who go to the North Stand want to put up with a worse view to create some atmosphere (as opposed to being at the back of the city end JH) then more power to them. When the Celtic games roll round giving them the JH makes sense. Otherwise there is plenty of space in the JH for the majority of the fans while still having a separate family section within that stand. Not sure how anyone is being put out for anything other than the Celtic games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Does anybody have a breakdown of the attendance yesterday. At the game yesterday the JHS looked pretty full. The main stand certainly felt pretty busy with not very many empty seats around me and it also looked that way from the highlights. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that somebody hasn't done the arithmetic properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) I'm not trying to be disrespectful but the attendance in the North Stand is pretty poor most weeks. And appeals to fill it have failed. Pretty dramatically. Given that most Thistle fans chose not to use it, and opted for far more inferior facilities, I think that's worth discussing. Especially since the club are clearly having to spend extra cash to keep it going. Are we seriously saying that if the people in the NS were given the same facilities in the JH that they currently have, that the atmosphere wouldn't be the same? If not better ? That seems genuinely bizarre to me. Some of the best atmosphere in the last 2 seasons has been away from home. When the fans are together , so how do you explain that? It would be far better IMO to find a solution that brings everyone together, then the limited time and resources can be put into enhancing that experience for everyone. Spending money on the upkeep, stewarding, and catering for 2 stands(if not 3) is madness. Especially when for most games, both sets of fans can be housed in one stand. At a time when budgets are tight, does that really make sense? I'd be happy with any rationale solution that works for most people. Perhaps it's time we had some sort of public meeting to discuss a way forward? I'd be particularly interested to understand the situation with ownership of the MS and whether any fan funded type renovation could work. Especially of it accommodated everyone. If we are talking about heritage, the MS certainly is a good starting point. A redevelopment could potentially have the safe standing type area as well as providing much improved facilities for disabled fans and families. Edited August 10, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThickAsThieves Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I probably split my time 50/50 between the North Stand and the Jackie Husband Stand. Both are very different match days experiences. Can understand why some wouldn't like the NS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 OK Colin, you've had your say, and folk have replied. I think your recent memories of the North Stand are extremely selective. None of your posts deal with the atmosphere that is created in the north stand. None of your posts deal with how bad the atmosphere had become before the move to the north stand. None of your posts seem to deal with the potential risk of alienating and disaffecting the next generation of thistle fans - those who are aged 16-21 and who's first priority is to be part of a good atmosphere. When your kids get old enough, do you think they would prefer to sit quietly in the JH or be part of the singing and vocal backing that emanates from the NS? It's quite obvious from this thread, and your posts in the run up to you eventually starting this thread, that you have some sort of axe to grind with the NS. Why don't you just come out and tell us all what's happened to upset you so much? You're agenda on this forum, and all forums that predated it, have always remained the same. To court controversy, to be the centre of attention, and to create divisions within our support. Carry on with this crusade if you like Colin, but I think the majority of people here are smart enough to realise that you are on a glorified fishing trip, you blame the fans from the NS for you and your gang of pals getting moved from the stand which you apparently paid for. It always amazes me how some people seem intent to create divisions within an already tiny support. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartaytonspeaksfrench Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Colin, I've got to say that even by your lofty standards, you have completely outdone yourself here. Having not posted on this forum for as long as I can remember it was always going to take something special to get me back on board, well here we are. Some of the absolute hocum that you have posted over the years, and some of the hard hitting and ultimately very good stuff has always kept me interested, who can forget your famous post Gretna 3-3 - "papering over the cracks, let's face it we were shite". Anyway, you are now calling for the North stand to be disbanded. I honestly think it's just because you want to hear the sound of your own voice at a public meeting, not because you actually believe it. As Ian says you have no doubt been building this up for weeks, were you not going to get involved in the fan collaboration on behalf of your reps - the parents and children? How's that going for you? My background here is that this season I'm probably going to fall into a PATG customer category, and I'll most likely pick and choose. All the guys I go with are NS as are my dad and sister. If it didn't exist I'm absolutely certain I wouldn't bother. Firhill was a soulless dump before the brave move - I was over from game 1 and haven't been back to the JH. Why risk reverting proclaiming the problem is solved - why don't we just stick to it. Why don't we put the customer first for once. What is the need to revisit our ground layout? What is the need to alienate even more of our customer base? Why should we disband something that actually works? Why do you have an axe to grind with it? Have you sought out the views of the group of fans who you proclaimed you would represent and what was the opinion? My view - lets just not even bother with your nonsense suggestion. Let's focus as a fan base on supporting the team and the manager (they will need it this season - it's going to be tough) instead of playing strange wee games on football forums. The comments on this thread are bang on - tiny support and ever dwindling - why are we trying to divide it further? Edited August 10, 2015 by stuartaytonspeaksfrench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggyMad Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I am a NS regular, but was in the main stand yesterday, due to bringing older members of the family. After 25 mins into the game I asked my older relatives if it was ok I went over to the NS cos the atmosphere was terrible in the main stand. Got refused by stewards, The main reason I moved to the NS was atmosphere, I don't care if there are only 100 or 1000 in there singing, at least I come out the ground feeling as if I've contributed everything I have and I get a buzz out of it. It reminds me when football was all about standing on the terraces with the mates all slightly intoxicated singing our hearts out. I'm nearly 50 myself and I drag my sons and father into the NS every home game, but I feel 18 again when I'm standing for 90 mins giving the opposite keeper abuse and singing mad. We are struggling to get fans in to Scottish grounds and should be making more standing areas available in grounds, with some intoxicating beverages for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Ian, it's this type of hysterical reaction that I find odd. It's a discussion forum. You don't get to decide when I -or anyone else -has had their say. As long as I play within the forum rules, I'm perfectly entitled to post what I like. As is anyone else. As for your analysis, it seems pretty subjective. Again, my point is a simple one. Why -when budgets are tight-are we paying for 3 sets of stewards, 3 sets of catering staff, 3 lots of money being spent on upkeep? At the very least a rational discussion on the pros and cons might be a good thing? It is surely better to get a solution where all the Thistle fans are together , even if we all have to give and take a little? Are we really saying that the ONLY solution to a better customer experience for everyone is to have 200-300 (at best) in a separate section. Regardless of cost? It doesn't have to be the JH stand and the NS. Why can't we at least try to accommodate everyone? It's at least 4/5 years since this was revisited properly. For example one group of fans who get a particularly bad deal are disabled fans. Can't we somehow improve their lot by working as a group? I'm sure we would all benefit from understanding the costs the club are incurring on the status quo? Additionally I am really keen to understand how the main stand could potentially be developed to suit everyone. Similar to the scheme that paid for the JH stand My gang of pals? That's pretty disrespectful to loads of Thistle fans who contributed a lot of money over a two year period to help fund the JH stand. Edited to add: I'm not sure where I called for the North stand to be disbanded? Edited August 10, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankey Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I think the state of the ground and it's future is something that absolutely needs to be discussed, but another way to piss around and divide the support is something that does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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