potty trained Posted August 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 In regards to the budget there was an article with Ian Maxwell in the Evening Times at the end of the last season and around the time of the new sponsorship deal Archie was on Radio Scotland and stated this as well. I don't know if this £400K figure is accurate but whilst I was trying to find the article with Maxi I did come across one in which a drop of 600 in home crowds was mentioned. Also it is I who stated that people not attending would have had an impact on the figures - I was not laying the blame on anyone and I don't speak on behalf of the Board. "We always aim to have a break even budget, although this year we're probably going to show a loss because crowd numbers are down quite a lot, which took us by surprise," Beattie said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) "We always aim to have a break even budget, although this year we're probably going to show a loss because crowd numbers are down quite a lot, which took us by surprise," Beattie said. I don't think there is anything terrible in that statement to be honest. The Board looked at attendances from the first season back, drew up a budget based on crowds being much the same but they were less and that has helped to contribute to a loss. All I see there is a simple statement of facts. Edited August 29, 2015 by Fawlty Towers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) I don't think there is anything terrible in that statement to be honest. The Board looked at attendances from the first season back, drew up a budget based on crowds being much the same but they were less and that has helped to contribute to a loss. All I see there is a simple statement of facts. If the 600 figure is accurate. That means they didn't account for a drop of about 500 away fans per game. Which when you consider the fixture list, and how early it's published. Is pretty lax on their part. Listen we'll agree to differ Martin. I'm in the camp that believes that as a director you shoulder the blame or cushion the fall. You certainly don't go around blaming the fans for your finances. Certainly not in public. What's his strategy? Shane them into coming back? Edited August 29, 2015 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 If the 600 figure is accurate. That means they didn't account for a drop of about 500 away fans per game. Which when you consider the fixture list, and how early it's published. Is pretty lax on their part. Listen we'll agree to differ Martin. I'm in the camp that believes that as a director you shoulder the blame or cushion the fall. You certainly don't go around blaming the fans for your finances. Certainly not in public. What's his strategy? Shane them into coming back? No problem with differing opinions and I will make this my last post on the subject (everyone else must be getting bored with us). We have both been concentrating on attendances but they are just one part of our income and it could be that other areas were down also. Ultimately, as you say, directors have to take responsibility and I am sure when the accounts come out they will get some flack (although it never seems to work in reverse - praise for good figs). The point I would disagree with you is about the Chairman blaming the fans, all he has done is state facts - the attendances were less than they budgeted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 "We always aim to have a break even budget, although this year we're probably going to show a loss because crowd numbers are down quite a lot, which took us by surprise," Beattie said. However, you have omitted the quote where he says we are almost at sustainability. Maybe the word "maybe" is a warning sign. In general, as you would expect, I take the article in a positive sense. Time will tell, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 Sack the board... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 We did get the debt down as you rightly say but unfortunately we sold half of the stadium to actually do it, not sure long term that was for the best. We've always had a small fan base so we have to maximise everything we do whether that's the Lottery, Sponsorships etc .and IMO we don't do that well enough. The stadium should be utilised more whether that's for events or even concerts , boxing matches etc , there is no reason why you wouldn't explore any of these revenue streams to maximise income . We've now got a communications expert on the board but she seems to be keeping a low profile. Is that being harsh ? You maybe right - in the long term it might not be the right thing. I don't remember which part of the stadium we sold. Was it the main stand ? We are still getting to use it, so nothing detrimental there ? Was it the Bing ? It is doing nothing. So again nothing detrimental. You are definitely right that we need to try to get the stadium used more,though. Do you know that these avenues aren't being explored ? You can't force companies to use the ground. Regarding the communications thing. It is maybe a tad harsh. The tannoy system seemed to be working today. The Aitken suite had loads of Thistle pictures on the walls today. Just a couple of things that were being complained about. Still loads to do, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 How the hell can we lose £400k ? What have the board been doing ffs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 How the hell can we lose £400k ? What have the board been doing ffs ? Are they as careless with their own businesses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted August 31, 2015 Members Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Where has this £400k been publicised other than here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Where has this £400k been publicised other than here? Just here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think he gave the answer to that. He said they were surprised with the drop in attendances, and had obviously budgeted on higher numbers based in year 1. Of course others will say they should have known - maybe but it was a relatively new scenario for Thistle.However, if they had budgeted on more conservative numbers, we might not have had SOD or Taylor last season.Not maximising revenue streams will no doubt also be brought up. Again there is some merit, but I think these are less significant than bums on seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Unfortunately crowds are down because people don't want to pay £20 to watch their team be roll over be rolled over without a fight. But at least we know our place and trying to compete with teams like Aberdeen and Hearts over 90 minutes is out of the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Unfortunately crowds are down because people don't want to pay £20 to watch their team be roll over be rolled over without a fight. But at least we know our place and trying to compete with teams like Aberdeen and Hearts over 90 minutes is out of the equation. A double rollover? Might be our best chance of signing some new players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think we all need to stop trying to shame people in to coming back to games - it will never work. If people choose not to go any more they're doing absolutely nothing wrong. One of the reasons why I thought the onethistle marketing was so successful was because it tugged at the heartstrings, it was nostalgic and it reminded the lapsed fan why they started following thistle in the first place. From what I remember they picked out 5/6 home games at the start of each season and earmarked them as the ones that would be worked on to get a bigger than average crowd in. I liked this because they were smart enough to realise that doing it for every home game would not be sustainable and the positive effect would be diminished. Basic marketing - don't overdo it. I would prefer us taking this approach rather than having a go at the very people who we actually want to come back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think we all need to stop trying to shame people in to coming back to games - it will never work. If people choose not to go any more they're doing absolutely nothing wrong. One of the reasons why I thought the onethistle marketing was so successful was because it tugged at the heartstrings, it was nostalgic and it reminded the lapsed fan why they started following thistle in the first place. From what I remember they picked out 5/6 home games at the start of each season and earmarked them as the ones that would be worked on to get a bigger than average crowd in. I liked this because they were smart enough to realise that doing it for every home game would not be sustainable and the positive effect would be diminished. Basic marketing - don't overdo it. I would prefer us taking this approach rather than having a go at the very people who we actually want to come back. It would be nice if the team didn't bottle it in most of the games that get hyped up. The last thing that any of us should do is call other teams bottlers or accuse them of lying down/rolling over, especially when it comes to playing against either of the gruesome twosome; we are the worst of the lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 It would be nice if the team didn't bottle it in most of the games that get hyped up. The last thing that any of us should do is call other teams bottlers or accuse them of lying down/rolling over, especially when it comes to playing against either of the gruesome twosome; we are the worst of the lot. That's a different argument entirely and not really relevant to be honest. Results, we have no control over them. So in this context they are variable we cannot control. There are other variables we can control and those are the ones we should concentrate on when discussing how to get the lapsed fans back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Looking at Fawlty Tower's figures on another thread we dropped about 1500 on average attendance per game between 1st season back and last season. I realise that most of that drop was predictable due to Celtic only visiting once and no Embra sides visiting at all. Bag of fag packet stuff but guesstimate one in four punters are concession and thus three in four paying £22. Deduct VAT and then multiply by 19 games X 1500, add on a wee bit for our share of cup games and we were probably showing a downturn of just over £500K in gate receipts season on season. You would have to assume hospitality and catering plus the likes of programme sales would also suffer on a pro rata basis. I don't know what that all means. Probably highlights why player budgets have to be cut, which in turn could affect future attendances. I suppose the big question is with more favourable fixtures this season will we reach similar attendances to our first year back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Has anyone ever thought of printing off 5,000 comps and delivering them to houses/student locations in the local area? May well work and surely not cost that much to print tickets off since we apparently do it in-house these days. Then see how many people turn up and see if it would be worth doing again on some occasion and then try find ways to keep them coming with a door drop of questionares to the same people for feedback and collate it. Would also be worth doing this with our core support to get feedback. I remember we done something a few seasons ago but never actually heard of the results of the feedback. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 So in summary, we haven't made a loss of 400k and we have no idea if the drop in crowds by 600 is accurate? That sounds very Thistle-esque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 So in summary, we haven't made a loss of 400k and we have no idea if the drop in crowds by 600 is accurate? That sounds very Thistle-esque hiw much of a loss have we made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roque Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 I don't think there is anything terrible in that statement to be honest. The Board looked at attendances from the first season back, drew up a budget based on crowds being much the same but they were less and that has helped to contribute to a loss. All I see there is a simple statement of facts. I don't know what they planned in terms of the budgeting of crowds at Firhill last season, but if they did base it on 13/14's attendances then I think that was pretty naive. Our opening game had a massive attendance due to it being our first game in the top flight for a decade, and we were originally scheduled to play Celtic, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United and Kilmarnock at home twice pre-split - all teams who would bring a good amount. Taking into consideration the switch around of pre-split opponents from year to year, they should have known there was a very good chance we would only be playing Celtic and Dundee United once at home, with both Edinburgh clubs relegated, leaving us with ICT, St Johnstone, County and Hamilton as x2 home opponents. If they budgeted for the same attendances with that knowledge, that was a very poor decision. Even if they didn't expect Thistle to lose 600 home fans (very disappointing figure btw), they SHOULD have expected to lose at least 500 in away attendees at Firhill. I'd go as far as to suggest that's a very basic oversight they've made... if it is indeed the case, which very few people probably really know. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) hiw much of a loss have we made? I have no idea. The accounts haven't been released. Edited September 1, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 I have no idea. The accounts haven't been released. Hence why everyone has acknowledged already, that the 400k might not be accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hence why everyone has acknowledged already, that the 400k might not be accurate. But still use the 400k and the 600k as though it were factual... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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