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The Thistle Archive

Penalty Thistle, Yes!

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Our latest Partickle is published this evening, although some WAT readers with a long memory might remember the gist of it from several years back.  ;)

Charting the drama of Thistle's penalty-kick awards, our story takes it all the way back to the start in 1891. Who was first? Did you know Thistle's first goal at Firhill was a penalty? Who are Thistle's penalty Kings? It's been an emotional rollercoaster ride!

By the way, it's Jered Stirling's birthday today. Co-incidence? I think not...

Penalty Thistle, Yes! →

In support of this piece, we have a brand-new list page, intended as a complete and definitive list of  Every penalty (taken) →

penalty-yes.jpg

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I must have seen quite a few of Jerry Stirling's penalties.  He just banged them in.

Other than that, he was fairly average.  But thanks for the memories, you guys and Jerry!

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10 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

Love it!

Jimmy Davidson certainly did well!

Certainly did.

With the heavier ball and often muddier surfaces I imagine most penalty takers back then would (like Jimmy) also favour the "power drive".  I may well be wrong but I think it was more likely a non forward would be the regular penalty taker back then than now. Nowadays with the goalie able to move latterly pre-kick it maybe favours more strikers to  be the regular penalty taker. That said there's too many exceptions to make that assumption any more than an inkling. 

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22 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Certainly did.

With the heavier ball and often muddier surfaces I imagine most penalty takers back then would (like Jimmy) also favour the "power drive".  I may well be wrong but I think it was more likely a non forward would be the regular penalty taker back then than now. Nowadays with the goalie able to move latterly pre-kick it maybe favours more strikers to  be the regular penalty taker. That said there's too many exceptions to make that assumption any more than an inkling. 

Interesting point M'lady. Definitions can become redundant over the decades as terms fall out of favour. Can also be subjective. Was Any Kerr a forward or a defender? Was Joe Hogan a defender or a forward?  I've done a quick and dirty analysis of the players known to have taken penalties and they breakdown as follows:-

Defenders 23%

Midfielders 22%

Forwards 55%

I didn't look at these by season but (to my surprise) there is little evidence to suggest defenders took the majority of penalties.

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40 minutes ago, a f kincaid said:

Interesting point M'lady. Definitions can become redundant over the decades as terms fall out of favour. Can also be subjective. Was Any Kerr a forward or a defender? Was Joe Hogan a defender or a forward?  I've done a quick and dirty analysis of the players known to have taken penalties and they breakdown as follows:-

Defenders 23%

Midfielders 22%

Forwards 55%

I didn't look at these by season but (to my surprise) there is little evidence to suggest defenders took the majority of penalties.

Interesting stuff, but I thought that M'Lady's question was really getting at the percentage of penalties taken by defenders that were scored, vs. the percentage of those taken by forwards that likewise ended up in the onion bag.

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On 10/13/2021 at 8:25 PM, Auld Jag said:

Great as usual from @The Thistle Archive. I can't be the only one surprised that Rangers sit 3rd in the list of teams Thistle have been awarded most penalties against.

I know. That was a very deliberate "!" in the article. Must be the sheer number of games against them that's doing it, quite sure they'd fall down on a "pens-per-game" query.

A Pie & Bov poster astutely observed that the 19th century conversion rate was exceedingly low. Will probably amend the article to make that very point. It's all to do with the rules / layout change in the close-season of 1902 as explained in the partickle. There's a very clear difference in the stats and I think there's enough numbers to say it's no co-incidence...

1891-1902: success rate: 40.5% (15/37)
1902-date: success rate: 71.9% (528/734)

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3 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

Interesting stuff, but I thought that M'Lady's question was really getting at the percentage of penalties taken by defenders that were scored, vs. the percentage of those taken by forwards that likewise ended up in the onion bag.

Gie's 10 minutes!

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2 hours ago, The Thistle Archive said:

I know. That was a very deliberate "!" in the article. Must be the sheer number of games against them that's doing it, quite sure they'd fall down on a "pens-per-game" query.

A Pie & Bov poster astutely observed that the 19th century conversion rate was exceedingly low. Will probably amend the article to make that very point. It's all to do with the rules / layout change in the close-season of 1902 as explained in the partickle. There's a very clear difference in the stats and I think there's enough numbers to say it's no co-incidence...

1891-1902: success rate: 40.5% (15/37)
1902-date: success rate: 71.9% (528/734)

Interestingly before 1905 the goalkeeper could come off his line before the kick was taken, and some keepers would rush out to close down the distance just before the kicker struck the ball. Willie Foulke,   a 6 feet 3 and  23 stone keeper used to run from his goal shouting at the kicker. This changed in 1905, when the keeper had to stay on his line till the kick was taken.

Foulke is also reputed to be the origin of the goalie expression "keep a clean sheet".  It is said that when he played for Bradford against Accrington Stanley, the opposition complained about the colour of his goalkeeper's top, which clashed with their strip.  No replacement jersey could be found (tops for players of such large dimensions were in short supply).  A white bed sheet was procured from a nearby house, and Foulkes wrapped this round him for the match.  Bradford won 1-0, and the sheet was returned without any dirt marks on it, and this led to the "keep a clean sheet" expression!!

It was also claimed that Foulke was the origin of the football chant "Who ate all the pies?", but this claim has subsequently been debunked.

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1 hour ago, East Kent Jag II said:

It was also claimed that Foulke was the origin of the football chant "Who ate all the pies?", but this claim has subsequently been debunked.

Aye but was the claim scotched, a mis-steak or just one big porky? 

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1 hour ago, a f kincaid said:

Defenders conversion rate is 73%

Midfielders conversion rate is 74%

Forwards conversion rate is 70%

That's brilliant, afk!

So basically, in the long term, it doesn't matter who takes the penalties...

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Re Fattie Foulkes, reminds me of this excerpt from the Willie Paul story  :D

 

Willie only missed his first League game of the season on the 10th December 1898 – and it was for good reason. Although playing in a struggling Thistle team, his abilities were still obviously being recognised and, with his 3-season-stint as a full Scottish internationalist now almost a decade behind him, it must have been extremely gratifying for Willie, and for the club, when he was once again called up to the Glasgow team to face Sheffield down at Bramall Lane. Unfortunately, Willie came off second best in a clash with the renowned Fattie Foulkes (William Foulke, GK, weight varied at this time from 20st to 24st) and, whilst Willie was off the field receiving treatment for his injury, Sheffield sealed the winner in a 2-1 victory. Willie’s injury saw him miss out the following week’s League game vs. Third Lanark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UkVZZnrC4E
▪ The scene of the crime: Bramall Lane. The assailant: Fattie Foulkes @ 2:05

Oor Willie was considerably taller than your average Victorian footballer but, as you can see, William Foulke was not your average Victorian footballer. He wasn’t going to be lightly charged into the net, that’s for sure! It’s worth noting that Willie (who played in 16 out of the 18 League games) would probably have registered a 100% League appearance record this season had it not been for the Glasgow call-up – in those days that was great going for a man pushing 33.

 

p.s. Can't seem to get the video to embed, but click on it to see some priceless footage of the esteemed custodian in action!

 

Edited by The Thistle Archive

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4 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said:

Interestingly before 1905 the goalkeeper could come off his line before the kick was taken, and some keepers would rush out to close down the distance just before the kicker struck the ball. Willie Foulke,   a 6 feet 3 and  23 stone keeper used to run from his goal shouting at the kicker. 

Puts Bruce Grobbelaar and his 'wobbly legs' at penalties in the shade.

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