Deboy Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 I did say the chances are NIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, javeajag said: Yes as it happens …..they will be transferred to the club after the share transfer for tax reasons Who’s paying the tax?? Neither club nor 3BC have that cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, javeajag said: What debt ? The club has no debt …read the annual accounts Annual accounts show a loss of nearly £200k then a loss of over £500k if 3BC hadn’t topped up the fund (they have none left to do that going forward) so yea maybe no debt, but trading at a significant loss especially as a percentage of turnover (30%) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Norgethistle said: Who’s paying the tax?? Neither club nor 3BC have that cash Maybe they are avoiding paying tax but whatever it has to be bad news …..but why don’t you explain the relationship between 3BC and Colin weirs estate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, Norgethistle said: Annual accounts show a loss of nearly £200k then a loss of over £500k if 3BC hadn’t topped up the fund (they have none left to do that going forward) so yea maybe no debt, but trading at a significant loss especially as a percentage of turnover (30%) And no debt and if there is debt tell me who is holding it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Kingleo said: Many years ago I had family friends in Wiesbaden, who then played in the 5th or 6th tier in Germany. One of the family was involved in the club and I went to quite a few games and saw things running behind the scenes. I remember being amazed at the professionalism of everything. The dedication of the players, the faculties. Everything was run really well. But there was no room for sentiment. If a decision had to be made it was made with the only thought being whether it was right for the club. We might not be the only club run in an amateur fashion in this country. But the jobs for the boys culture and general air of total apathy at Thistle seems particularly obvious. I live 25 miles from Dunfermline and couldn’t think of anything I’d rather do less than spending time and cash to watch that shower tomorrow night Many years ago I signed for a team the 5th / 6th tier in Germany. Had to check, as thought remarkably, it was for the same team - was FC Hausen im Wiesental - in the Black Forest near the Swiss border. Anyway, I played at a reasonable level here in England and signed for Hausen while working in Germany for a few months. The difference was night and day. I was used to flooded and muddy pitches. At training we had about 6 balls between about 30 of us. We mostly ran all night and played for 15 minutes at the end. Pre-match meal was a bag of crisps and can of Irn-Bru. That kind of thing. In Germany, we had a grass pitch to play on and a red ash one to train on. We trained with the ball the whole time and everyone had one each (for some reason, this really amazed me) lol. There were training techniques I'd never seen before. We had an instruction room to discuss tactics and a restaurant for meals. Don't get me wrong, there was also a bar and we enjoyed a good drink too. This was a local village team that behaved in a professional manner and tried to have the best they could for their players. Is there any reason the same can't happen in Scotland? I know we're talking about Thistle, but most of the other clubs are no better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, javeajag said: And no debt and if there is debt tell me who is holding it There may be no debt, but there appears substantial liabilities on the horizon. - Trading at a substantial loss - Significant pitch work - Roof for main stand plus other stuff (toilets etc) to get a safety certificate - Roof repair for JHS This is no longer looking like a “gift” as it was intended but becoming a poisoned chalice. We were sold a “dream” of our contributions could be spent where we deemed fit, that’s now looking like it will maybe be to keep the repo man away. Still no due diligence Still no timescale Still no clear updates Still no real engagement Still no Propco part of ground handing back to the club after 27 month Is there any minutes of discussions between 3BC and TJF regarding handover, or risk? Has there actually been ANY formal discussions on this? Folk are starting to vote with their feet and wallets by leaving this, I (and others) have asked repeatedly for answers and clarification to certain aspects, yet we get nothing back, no response. The consensus of opinion on social media is the group is no longer representing it’s members due to no engagement or reply’s. I am now at the stage unless clarification and communication is forthcoming before the weekend then I’m canceling both subscriptions and I’m out. I’m by not means the 1st this last 2 weeks and I’ll definitely not be the last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, javeajag said: That’s all dandy , now if you could just provide an actual alternative that would be peachy it’s easy to decry fan ownership but the reality is no one else wants to buy the club It would be a lot easier not to decry fan ownership if the fans group would actually tell us their actual template for our future. Is it going to be youth based ? , are their going to be business people to try and optimise commercial streams , hospitality , Jags lottery etc We’ve told nothing so far apart from give us your bank details to set up your direct debit . It’s been a totally half arsed proposal and that’s why the support hasn’t bought into it . The numbers speak for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: There may be no debt, but there appears substantial liabilities on the horizon. - Trading at a substantial loss - Significant pitch work - Roof for main stand plus other stuff (toilets etc) to get a safety certificate - Roof repair for JHS This is no longer looking like a “gift” as it was intended but becoming a poisoned chalice. We were sold a “dream” of our contributions could be spent where we deemed fit, that’s now looking like it will maybe be to keep the repo man away. Still no due diligence Still no timescale Still no clear updates Still no real engagement Still no Propco part of ground handing back to the club after 27 month Is there any minutes of discussions between 3BC and TJF regarding handover, or risk? Has there actually been ANY formal discussions on this? Folk are starting to vote with their feet and wallets by leaving this, I (and others) have asked repeatedly for answers and clarification to certain aspects, yet we get nothing back, no response. The consensus of opinion on social media is the group is no longer representing it’s members due to no engagement or reply’s. I am now at the stage unless clarification and communication is forthcoming before the weekend then I’m canceling both subscriptions and I’m out. I’m by not means the 1st this last 2 weeks and I’ll definitely not be the last Ok so there’s no debt. followed as always by an avalanche of negative speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: It would be a lot easier not to decry fan ownership if the fans group would actually tell us their actual template for our future. Is it going to be youth based ? , are their going to be business people to try and optimise commercial streams , hospitality , Jags lottery etc We’ve told nothing so far apart from give us your bank details to set up your direct debit . It’s been a totally half arsed proposal and that’s why the support hasn’t bought into it . The numbers speak for themselves. Well the numbers kind of pan out this way…. - a section of the fan base want fan ownership - a section of the fan base don’t want fan ownership but have no alternative except to wish someone with cash would turn up - a section of the fan base don’t care 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avie-man Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 48 minutes ago, javeajag said: That’s all dandy , now if you could just provide an actual alternative that would be peachy it’s easy to decry fan ownership but the reality is no one else wants to buy the club There was someone but people like you drove them away in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, avie-man said: There was someone but people like you drove them away in the end. Factually incorrect. The directors sold to someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, javeajag said: Well the numbers kind of pan out this way…. - a section of the fan base want fan ownership - a section of the fan base don’t want fan ownership but have no alternative except to wish someone with cash would turn up - a section of the fan base don’t care And the template for our future is … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, jlsarmy said: And the template for our future is … At the moment looks like fan ownership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avie-man Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, javeajag said: Factually incorrect. The directors sold to someone else. Because of the pressure mounted by fans spreading bullshit that they were going to rinse the club they caved in. I knew fan ownership would be bad but it's went even worse than I've thought somehow. Less than 500 sign ups and shrinking because it's an absolute shambles. (to the point it's not even clear it'll go through) Anything the fans touch with the running of Thistle turns to shit. Edited March 21, 2022 by avie-man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, javeajag said: At the moment looks like fan ownership Ok I get you , there is no plan, you’re going to wing it and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 20 minutes ago, javeajag said: Ok so there’s no debt. followed as always by an avalanche of negative speculation. None of that is speculation. The accounts are there for all to see, as is the pitch and main stand. What is missing from view is the Foundation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, jlsarmy said: Ok I get you , there is no plan, you’re going to wing it and see what happens I don’t know if there is a plan or not as I’m not involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Norgethistle said: None of that is speculation. The accounts are there for all to see, as is the pitch and main stand. What is missing from view is the Foundation As I say to you regularly ….we are doomed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: As I say to you regularly ….we are doomed With the current board and inept foundation following the same trajectory of last 27 months, yes I think we are. Can you tell me what has actually been progressed since 17th December 2019 (Yes Twenty Nineteen) by the Foundation except to set up a direct debit / subscription service? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Norgethistle said: With the current board and inept foundation following the same trajectory of last 27 months, yes I think we are. Can you tell me what has actually been progressed since 17th December 2019 (Yes Twenty Nineteen) by the Foundation except to set up a direct debit / subscription service? Ask someone involved. the more substantive point is that it doesn’t really matter who owns the club ( unless someone is willing to really lose some of their own money ) there is no way a company with a turnover of £2-4m can fix all the things you speculate about. And that’s been the case for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, javeajag said: Ask someone involved. the more substantive point is that it doesn’t really matter who owns the club ( unless someone is willing to really lose some of their own money ) there is no way a company with a turnover of £2-4m can fix all the things you speculate about. And that’s been the case for years. A company our size does preventative and routine maintenance which saves on long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: A company our size does preventative and routine maintenance which saves on long run. Pretty weak response tbh……routine and preventative maintenance isn’t going to fix the bing or main stand , they require a level of investment a company our size doesn’t have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 27 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: None of that is speculation. The accounts are there for all to see, as is the pitch and main stand. What is missing from view is the Foundation Over 2,000 fans at home games. Less than 500 subscribers. Where is the sales pitch? Where are the updates? Where is the engagement with subscribers and potential subscribers? I'm not sure that you can deduce from this that the fans aren't interested in fan ownership. It's clear to me though that the Foundation isn't doing itself any favours. I'm still in but beginning to wonder where this is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, javeajag said: Pretty weak response tbh……routine and preventative maintenance isn’t going to fix the bing or main stand , they require a level of investment a company our size doesn’t have The bing could be strimmed to make it less an eye sore. The main stand roof could have been maintained in sections over last 3 years especially gutter before they had to haul down the front boards as they were about to fall down with the rotten gutter they were attached too. Toilets in main stand could have been done a few a season. Park should have been relaid (as per groundsmans wishes) in summer rather than only reseeded leaving us a bigger combined bill this summer. Broken seats in JHS /JLS could have been mended on a monthly basis instead of now needing to fix a few hundred. I work directly with and audit many engineering companies with similar turnover, and one thing they don’t cut out is TPM, it’s cheaper on long run and prevents unscheduled loss of production to their business and impact to their customers. The same as a quagmire of a pitch affects our ability to produce (put a game on) or impacts customers (broken seats, closure of main stand in worst case scenario). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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