Woodstock Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 57 minutes ago, scotty said: Do clubs actually benefit much financially from the play-offs? I seem to recall something about the gate money being split between the clubs and the SPFL. I do realise that the prize money is greater the higher up we finish. They typically have a very modest impact (less than the impact of, for example, finishing 2nd instead of 3rd) because a significant proportion of ticket revenue goes directly to the SPFL and most Clubs' bonus structures pay out more to players depending on performances in the play-offs themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Just now, Woodstock Jag said: Utter nonsense. The footballing justification given for relieving McCall of his duties was that a change of manager was more likely to secure promotion. The concerns about the likelihood of having a chance to achieve this were heightened by McCall overseeing the Club fall out of the play-off places, which would leave it completely ineligible for promotion at the end of the season. Doolan was hired to improve the league position and did so, securing a play-off spot. He failed to win promotion, but no one said that was the condition of his employment. At the moment, Kris Doolan's side is in the play-offs, which meets the target set by the current board, and actually exceeds the position on which budgeting assumptions are now made at the Club. So you're wrong about literally everything. We were off the Play Off Spot by one point Are you suggesting if Dools is in a Similar position we sack him ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Thanks FT It was the Poster Lenzie Jag who stated that the target was third so some confusion - so Dools has No Target - Nothing to measure him against - however if we miss the Playoffs it has a Financial Implication - just as missing promotion last Season as stated by the Board had a Financial implication So by Logic -you sack one Manager for not hitting Targets - You Sack the other One The financial target has been put out there by the board, the only football target I have heard expressed was that given by Mr Creevy pre season which was top 4. My assumption is that top 4 would be the target but we all know the dangers of assuming. Edited February 29 by Fawlty Towers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: They Quoted the Growing Gap Between the League Leaders & where Thistle were sitting when they dismissed McCall - we were one point off the Play Off Spot Mid Feb - so still in contention So No - Im not talking Rubbish Yes you are. Here's the direct quote in the Club statement, in full: Quote The primary aim for Partick Thistle Football Club for season 2022/23 is to regain Premiership status. The management team were given a budget to support this objective. Given the playing squad assembled for this season, everyone at the club was united in the belief that this was an achievable prospect. The decision to relieve the management team of their duties in relation to the first team was a strategic decision to achieve this objective. The timing of this decision was to allow maximum preparation time for our vital upcoming cinch Championship match with Ayr United. Ian, Alan and Neil deserve a huge and sincere thank you from all at Partick Thistle Football Club for their leadership over the past three-and-a-half years, including winning the League 1 title. They have operated in challenging circumstances, most notably during the pandemic and then as we transition to fan ownership, but there can be no doubt they have left the men’s team in a much stronger position than when appointed in September 2019. Our squad remains strong, our season’s objective remains unchanged. With more than a third of the season to go, the squad have already demonstrated they are capable of a strong run of form as evidenced at the start of the season where we sat atop of the Championship standings after the tenth round of games. Kris Doolan and Paul McDonald have been asked to step up on short notice from our Academy to look after first team matters on an interim basis. We would ask that all players, staff and supporters give them their united backing throughout this time. You're just making stuff up. I keep receipts, Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Just now, Fawlty Towers said: The financial target has been put out there by the board, the only football target I have heard expressed was that given by Mr Creevy pre seson which was top 4. My assumption is that top 4 would be the target but we all know the dangers of assuming. Agreed - Top 4 is the target - my argument is that its pretty much is always the target Dropping a point out of it Mid Feb = a sacking ? Now TJF Board Members are saying if we dont make the Top 4 - Dools gets another Season ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Just now, Woodstock Jag said: Yes you are. Here's the direct quote in the Club statement, in full: You're just making stuff up. I keep receipts, Jim. In tranches I wager! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 3 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: We were off the Play Off Spot by one point Are you suggesting if Dools is in a Similar position we sack him ? That's a judgment call for the Club Board. Personally, I would not (speaking purely as a fan) support the dismissal of Doolan if we narrowly missed out on the play-offs this season. He's a young manager and deserves time and resources to get it right. I have less patience for a manager who failed to salvage our place in the Championship when brought in in 2019, had more than a full season to establish his preferred squad, and had us losing to part-time football teams and losing momentum. Is the loss of momentum in recent games concerning? Absolutely. Are Doolan's and McCall's positions remotely comparable? Absolutely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Yes you are. Here's the direct quote in the Club statement, in full: You're just making stuff up. I keep receipts, Jim. I stand corrected We were one point away from that target - it = a sacking Here is hoping Dools doesnt slip out the Top 4 by a point ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Just now, Jordanhill Jag said: I stand corrected Taking a screenshot of this for posterity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Just now, Woodstock Jag said: That's a judgment call for the Club Board. Personally, I would not (speaking purely as a fan) support the dismissal of Doolan if we narrowly missed out on the play-offs this season. He's a young manager and deserves time and resources to get it right. I have less patience for a manager who failed to salvage our place in the Championship when brought in in 2019, had more than a full season to establish his preferred squad, and had us losing to part-time football teams and losing momentum. Is the loss of momentum in recent games concerning? Absolutely. Are Doolan's and McCall's positions remotely comparable? Absolutely not. Ah of Course - here is the start of the "Save Dools the Legend " Campaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Taking a screenshot of this for posterity! The primary aim for Partick Thistle Football Club for season 2022/23 is to regain Premiership status. The management team were given a budget to support this objective. Given the playing squad assembled for this season, everyone at the club was united in the belief that this was an achievable prospect. One thing to Note - the Replacement Board had No idea if this was correct - as none of them apart from Smillie were part of the Board who set the Targets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Just now, Jordanhill Jag said: The primary aim for Partick Thistle Football Club for season 2022/23 is to regain Premiership status. The management team were given a budget to support this objective. Given the playing squad assembled for this season, everyone at the club was united in the belief that this was an achievable prospect. One thing to Note - the Replacement Board had No idea if this was correct - as none of them apart from Smillie were part of the Board who set the Targets Gerry Britton was also there as Chief Executive. Are you suggesting that he and Smillie fraudulently misrepresented the decisions of the Club Board to its incoming directors? Are you absolutely sure this is the road you want to go down, Jim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Agreed - Top 4 is the target - my argument is that its pretty much is always the target Dropping a point out of it Mid Feb = a sacking ? Now TJF Board Members are saying if we dont make the Top 4 - Dools gets another Season ? I would agree that we should always be aiming for top 4 at the start of the season then when we get to Christmas we can see if that needs adjusted up or down. With regards to the "if McCall got sacked so should Doolan" arguement I would say that it is easy on paper to say same rules for everyone but in most situations there is usually a degree of personal judgement applied (I know in my job that is the case otherwise they could get rid of me and replace me with a computer program). McCall - an experienced manager, well backed by the club in the transfer market against Doolan a first time manager operating in a slightly different environment. If everything in football was totally clear and obvious it would be rather boring and we certainly would not have topics here going for 12 pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Just now, Woodstock Jag said: Gerry Britton was also there as Chief Executive. Are you suggesting that he and Smillie fraudulently misrepresented the decisions of the Club Board to its incoming directors? Are you absolutely sure this is the road you want to go down, Jim? I have no idea on any level who provided the information for the statement & I have neither stated nor implied anything of the sort your suggesting However given the Financial position that the Board inherited - common sense would be to make your own analysis of any previous decisions & not take as read that they are correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 23 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: So by Logic -you sack one Manager for not hitting Targets - You Sack the other One McCall was sacked before it was clear whether or if any target had been reached as it was in February ……your flogging a very dead horse here…..it would be madness to have such rigid policy and even if it applied to McCall ( which I doubt ) I would support ditching it asap. the board should rightly assess doolans performance at the end of the season …if we make the playoffs I suspect he will be here next season, if we don’t make them then it’s more of a debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Just now, javeajag said: McCall was sacked before it was clear whether or if any target had been reached as it was in February ……your flogging a very dead horse here…..it would be madness to have such rigid policy and even if it applied to McCall ( which I doubt ) I would support ditching it asap. the board should rightly assess doolans performance at the end of the season …if we make the playoffs I suspect he will be here next season, if we don’t make them then it’s more of a debate. Exactly one point off the play offs = a sacking simply disgraceful and the only conclusion that I can reach is because various people with influence didn't like him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 10 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: I have no idea on any level who provided the information for the statement & I have neither stated nor implied anything of the sort your suggesting However given the Financial position that the Board inherited - common sense would be to make your own analysis of any previous decisions & not take as read that they are correct I hear Douglas Noble once said that Earth's atmosphere contains oxygen, so I'm now roaming Alexandria wearing diving apparatus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 9 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Exactly one point off the play offs = a sacking simply disgraceful and the only conclusion that I can reach is because various people with influence didn't like him That was then, this is now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 21 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Exactly one point off the play offs = a sacking simply disgraceful and the only conclusion that I can reach is because various people with influence didn't like him You could very well be correct but the old board who made the decision are gone so you need to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 58 minutes ago, javeajag said: McCall was sacked before it was clear whether or if any target had been reached as it was in February ……your flogging a very dead horse here…..it would be madness to have such rigid policy and even if it applied to McCall ( which I doubt ) I would support ditching it asap. the board should rightly assess doolans performance at the end of the season …if we make the playoffs I suspect he will be here next season, if we don’t make them then it’s more of a debate. Stop trying to bring nuance in to the argument or acknowledge that sometimes people make decisions based on more than metrics, KPIs, measures, data or whatever you want to call it. Only a quantitative analysis is acceptable in Mr Jordanhill's view of the business world. I'm sure he has the same opinion on sporting performance. Dools should only be looking at the numbers to determine how to make the team win again. Data science for the win! I find it laughable (and exasperating) that someone would choose to argue these same points over and over, as if numeric analysis by itself is the sole arbiter in matters like this. An extremely simplistic take on things, or as others have suggested, a smokescreen to hide a personal beef behind. Time for forum break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 35 minutes ago, fenski said: Stop trying to bring nuance in to the argument or acknowledge that sometimes people make decisions based on more than metrics, KPIs, measures, data or whatever you want to call it. Only a quantitative analysis is acceptable in Mr Jordanhill's view of the business world. I'm sure he has the same opinion on sporting performance. Dools should only be looking at the numbers to determine how to make the team win again. Data science for the win! I find it laughable (and exasperating) that someone would choose to argue these same points over and over, as if numeric analysis by itself is the sole arbiter in matters like this. An extremely simplistic take on things, or as others have suggested, a smokescreen to hide a personal beef behind. Time for forum break. Has anyone done any quantitative analysis on the arguments making a jot of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 37 minutes ago, fenski said: Stop trying to bring nuance in to the argument or acknowledge that sometimes people make decisions based on more than metrics, KPIs, measures, data or whatever you want to call it. Only a quantitative analysis is acceptable in Mr Jordanhill's view of the business world. I'm sure he has the same opinion on sporting performance. Dools should only be looking at the numbers to determine how to make the team win again. Data science for the win! I find it laughable (and exasperating) that someone would choose to argue these same points over and over, as if numeric analysis by itself is the sole arbiter in matters like this. An extremely simplistic take on things, or as others have suggested, a smokescreen to hide a personal beef behind. Time for forum break. Ok I’ll stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 36 minutes ago, fenski said: Stop trying to bring nuance in to the argument or acknowledge that sometimes people make decisions based on more than metrics, KPIs, measures, data or whatever you want to call it. Only a quantitative analysis is acceptable in Mr Jordanhill's view of the business world. I'm sure he has the same opinion on sporting performance. Dools should only be looking at the numbers to determine how to make the team win again. Data science for the win! I find it laughable (and exasperating) that someone would choose to argue these same points over and over, as if numeric analysis by itself is the sole arbiter in matters like this. An extremely simplistic take on things, or as others have suggested, a smokescreen to hide a personal beef behind. Time for forum break. Agree 100%? Sometimes people make decisions on more data and in my view that was the case - it was more than just Football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Just now, javeajag said: Ok I’ll stop Yes - so will I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Alls we need to do is take a handful of samples of game data, calculate the average of each sample, figure out the T-Score for the level of confidence we’d like to have, compute the standard error for our sample means - like so -, combine all of that to get an upper bound, lower bound, and margin of error, and there you are, right as rain. I’ll just plug that all into the ChiThistle 3000 mainframe, press this button, read the result and……. 42?!? Damn computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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