Scotland Game

[Dick Dastardly]

Agreed.but when we beat Lithuania,they will have nothing to play for against the Czechs.

That big worries me.

 

Yeh, but Spain will have qualified before we play them, so by the same argument, when we go to Spain, Brown and Fletcher could run rings round Xavi and Iniesta

[GrantB]

Having seen the team and looking at the weather out there, I really feel for the guys that are going to the game tonight.

[read'n'yell]

Anybody know of a good stream to watch the game?

[Mediocre Pundit]

Anybody know of a good stream to watch the game?

On this, there's two streams noted at the start of this thread - did anyone use them for the Czech game and can they comment on quality?

 

There's two pubs right over the road from me but I really can't be arsed leaving the flat...

[thornwoodjag]

On this, there's two streams noted at the start of this thread - did anyone use them for the Czech game and can they comment on quality?

 

There's two pubs right over the road from me but I really can't be arsed leaving the flat...

Ach get out to the pub man,get some atmosphere.

I would if i didnt have 2 weans to watch.

[Graemei]

Glad with the result last night, poor last 20 minutes though.

 

Just read this, wonder if he's having a go at us since he got boo'd the whole game

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/14819867.stm

 

Also "I think a draw would have been a fair result." GTF ya wee b@wbag!

Edited September 7, 2011 by Graemei

[twinny]

Glad with the result last night, poor last 20 minutes though.

 

Just read this, wonder if he's having a go at us since he got boo'd the whole game

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/14819867.stm

 

Also "I think a draw would have been a fair result." GTF ya wee b@wbag!

 

I don't think the referee favoured us at all. At one point Lithuania got a free kick right outside the box for a handball that didn't look intentional, 5 mins later Scotland went up the field and a shot was blocked by a Lithuanian player's hand inside the box, probably not intentional either but a very very similar incident and no penalty was given. This is where referees need to improve, consistency.

 

Lithuania were absolutely dreadful, their control was shocking and they deserved nothing. The fact we only put one past them shows how poor we are and why we need a finisher in the squad. Goodwillie is good but still got a little to learn at that level (which I think he will) but Naismith is terrible. Similar to Buchanan in that he gets into all the right positions but his first touch and finishing are rubbish, and not good enough for international football, despite his goal. Steven Fletcher would have scored a few last night IMO.

[Chicofan]

Was at the game last night.

 

Goodwillie- A joke of a footballer..nae skill nae pace nae nowt

Whittaker - Like a donkey on speed with a worse cross.

 

In complete contrast Barry Bannan,,,quite possibly one of the best passers of the ball i have seen.

 

If Lithuania even had an ounce of technical ability they could have beaten us.

 

Oh and that Leah Shevlin..McGregors bird..Has a face like a box of frogs and thinks she's the business!!

[hebridean jag]

I don't think the referee favoured us at all. At one point Lithuania got a free kick right outside the box for a handball that didn't look intentional, 5 mins later Scotland went up the field and a shot was blocked by a Lithuanian player's hand inside the box, probably not intentional either but a very very similar incident and no penalty was given. This is where referees need to improve, consistency.

 

Lithuania were absolutely dreadful, their control was shocking and they deserved nothing. The fact we only put one past them shows how poor we are and why we need a finisher in the squad. Goodwillie is good but still got a little to learn at that level (which I think he will) but Naismith is terrible. Similar to Buchanan in that he gets into all the right positions but his first touch and finishing are rubbish, and not good enough for international football, despite his goal. Steven Fletcher would have scored a few last night IMO.

To me Naismith was by a distance our best forward over the last two games and one of the few on the park who looked comfortable with International football.

 

edited to add; Irrespective of the frailties of our forwards, I hope Fletcher rots in what particular hell awaits him. Any person who knocks back the National Team ahould be automatically barred for life. When his agent tells him that his value could be added to with International recognition I hope he`s chased

Edited September 7, 2011 by hebridean jag

[beep0608]

I totally agree with those calling for Avril's head. The man is a caricature of a football manager; a dire failure, his stint at Leicester was a plane crash, and no self-respecting club would allow him within a 20 mile radius of the manager's chair. His tactics are an affront, and the worst bit about that is his arrogant self-belief. His culpability over Praguegate should have resulted in a minimum of 5 years' imprisonment.

 

All that said, there is no getting away from the fact that the Dutch ref on saturday was/is as bent as a 7 Euro note. May his next shite be a landmine coated in semtex.

 

His tactics in the first game against the Czechs were disgraceful and he seems to be developing a siege mantality already but calling for his head already is really pushing it for me. I admit he's been a disappointment so far but he needs a lot more time. Are we going to change boss every 5 or 6 games? Sorry, it's far far too early for that for me. I think he needs until part way through the next qualifiers at least.

[twinny]

His tactics in the first game against the Czechs were disgraceful and he seems to be developing a siege mantality already but calling for his head already is really pushing it for me. I admit he's been a disappointment so far but he needs a lot more time. Are we going to change boss every 5 or 6 games? Sorry, it's far far too early for that for me. I think he needs until part way through the next qualifiers at least.

 

I agree. Levein needs some more experience in the job. Weren't there Scottish managers in the 70s or 80s who focused only on World Cups and used European qualifiers as a means of testing out new tactics and younger players. Let him make his mistakes in this campaign and perhaps he'll be more sure of how to compete in international football. The small group size and few friendlies we seem to play (which is down to the SFA isn't it, not Levein?) mean we have even fewer games to learn from and messing them up costs more. Let's give him a world cup campaign.

[GrantB]

To me Naismith was by a distance our best forward over the last two games and one of the few on the park who looked comfortable with International football.

 

edited to add; Irrespective of the frailties of our forwards, I hope Fletcher rots in what particular hell awaits him. Any person who knocks back the National Team ahould be automatically barred for life. When his agent tells him that his value could be added to with International recognition I hope he`s chased

 

How many £7M strikers do we as a country posess?

How do we know Fletcher doesn't want to be called up? As far as I know he didn't want to be selected for the Northern Ireland game due to the fall out fom the infamous game in Prague where Levein's arrogance shamed us as a nation.

 

Now Levein is using the ref from Saturday as a smokescreen to get the heat off him for his awful tactics and decisions.

 

To play a must win game on Tuesday with ONE striker in the entire squad shows utter contempt.

Wonder what tactics he'll come up with for the must win game against the footballing powerhouse of Liechtenstein?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

edited to add; Irrespective of the frailties of our forwards, I hope Fletcher rots in what particular hell awaits him. Any person who knocks back the National Team ahould be automatically barred for life. When his agent tells him that his value could be added to with International recognition I hope he`s chased

I'm not that sure that I agree with you, HJ, simply because so many before have crossed what should be the line of no return only to crawl back across again. In that respect Fletcher can call on precedent. Would he be that worse than so many who have gone before him?

What I will say tho' is that every time someone returns to the fold and allows himself to be once again selected is a real turn off. He's usually even feted for such a magnanimous gesture something I suspect pisses off so many Scots even further.

Myself I'm old school and was happier with days gone by when we'd inexplicably field guys like Frank Munro, Hugh Curran, or Davie Dodds. Guys that shouldn't have been anywhere near proximity of being selected for Scotland but poor as they were would at least have been as proud as punch to play for their country.

[Guy Incognito]

Was at the game last night.

 

Goodwillie- A joke of a footballer..nae skill nae pace nae nowt

Whittaker - Like a donkey on speed with a worse cross.

 

In complete contrast Barry Bannan,,,quite possibly one of the best passers of the ball i have seen.

 

If Lithuania even had an ounce of technical ability they could have beaten us.

 

Oh and that Leah Shevlin..McGregors bird..Has a face like a box of frogs and thinks she's the business!!

Bannan had a excellent game last night. I cannot remember the last time a single Scotland player was such a stand out performer.

 

I actually thought Goodwillie did okay. He lacks Kenny Miller's boundless energy but his first touch was generally good and he wasn't afraid to run at defenders. He is still raw but he looks like he has the potential to be Kenny Miller's eventual successor in the Scotland team.

 

I agree with you about Leah Shevlin though. She really is an astonishingly average looking young woman (at best) and it says a lot about her personality that she believes herself capable of pursing a career as a model.

 

Kenny Miller's better half on the other hand ...

Edited September 7, 2011 by Guy Incognito

[erzamacaroonbars]

For what its worth I think Scotland are not too far off having a reasonable team, with more of our young players heading to the English Premier it looking pretty good. Its too bad then we have an eejit like Levein in charge! This bloke should have been sacked for playing with no forwards in Prague, that one game says it all, he's not good enough! Then he gets a game against Brazil, we are predictably humped, we drop in rankings and enter the World Cup Qualifiers in Pot 4 rather than Pot 3 and he says the drubbing was a worthwhile exercise!!!

I agree that Stephen Fletcher should be a shoe in, I wonder also why Barry Robson didn't get a game, he has been outstanding for Middlesbrough and has genuine flair.

 

Time to ship out Levein and with this bunch of players a decent manager might achieve something - not could we not get Craig Brown back? is Tommy Docherty still alive? George Graham isn't doing too much these days? or th special one, John Lambie!!

[Vladimir Putin]

How many £7M strikers do we as a country posess?

How do we know Fletcher doesn't want to be called up? As far as I know he didn't want to be selected for the Northern Ireland game due to the fall out fom the infamous game in Prague where Levein's arrogance shamed us as a nation.

 

 

Plenty of hypocrisy going around with regards to the Fletcher situation. Kris Boyd was rightly vilified on here for refusing to play under Burley with many, including myself, saying he should never be selected again. Now Fletcher has essentially done the same thing with Levein, but because he's worth £7 million, scored a few last season in the Premiership, and is generally just a bit less distasteful than Kris Boyd, he should be welcomed back with open arms? It doesn't matter if he's worth £70 million and if Levein plays no strikers ever again, if you choose not to make yourself available for Scotland that should be it. We need players who are committed to the team, regardless of who is in charge or what his tactics are.

[Jaggernaut]

Plenty of hypocrisy going around with regards to the Fletcher situation. Kris Boyd was rightly vilified on here for refusing to play under Burley with many, including myself, saying he should never be selected again. Now Fletcher has essentially done the same thing with Levein, but because he's worth £7 million, scored a few last season in the Premiership, and is generally just a bit less distasteful than Kris Boyd, he should be welcomed back with open arms? It doesn't matter if he's worth £70 million and if Levein plays no strikers ever again, if you choose not to make yourself available for Scotland that should be it. We need players who are committed to the team, regardless of who is in charge or what his tactics are.

[joejag]

For what its worth I think Scotland are not too far off having a reasonable team, with more of our young players heading to the English Premier it looking pretty good. Its too bad then we have an eejit like Levein in charge! This bloke should have been sacked for playing with no forwards in Prague, that one game says it all, he's not good enough! Then he gets a game against Brazil, we are predictably humped, we drop in rankings and enter the World Cup Qualifiers in Pot 4 rather than Pot 3 and he says the drubbing was a worthwhile exercise!!!

I agree that Stephen Fletcher should be a shoe in, I wonder also why Barry Robson didn't get a game, he has been outstanding for Middlesbrough and has genuine flair.

 

Time to ship out Levein and with this bunch of players a decent manager might achieve something - not could we not get Craig Brown back? is Tommy Docherty still alive? George Graham isn't doing too much these days? or th special one, John Lambie!!

[twinny]

Plenty of hypocrisy going around with regards to the Fletcher situation. Kris Boyd was rightly vilified on here for refusing to play under Burley with many, including myself, saying he should never be selected again. Now Fletcher has essentially done the same thing with Levein, but because he's worth £7 million, scored a few last season in the Premiership, and is generally just a bit less distasteful than Kris Boyd, he should be welcomed back with open arms? It doesn't matter if he's worth £70 million and if Levein plays no strikers ever again, if you choose not to make yourself available for Scotland that should be it. We need players who are committed to the team, regardless of who is in charge or what his tactics are.

 

I never had much of a problem with Boyd either, and I'm sure I said as much on whatever forum we were on at the time.

[Vladimir Putin]

I never had much of a problem with Boyd either, and I'm sure I said as much on whatever forum we were on at the time.

 

Fair enough, I wasn't referring to you in particular to apologies if you got that impression. But there is a double standard being applied here - not just on this forum, I sensed it when I spoke to Scotland fans when I was back home for the Denmark game. Plenty of Scotland fans (well, those who don't support Rangers) were happy to see Boyd banished permanently for his stance on not playing for Burley, I certainly supported that and still would. But because Fletcher never played for the Old Firm, is generally considered to be a better player than Boyd (he is), and also because he isn't seen to be as dislikeable as Boyd (also true), he should be welcomed back when he decides he is available because we need a striker, despite the fact that he made himself unavailable.

 

I think the principle should be the same - if you choose to make yourself unavailable, for a reason such as not liking the manager's tactics, then you shouldn't be picked in the future either. We will never improve if we have a mentality among players who think they can just decide which games they want to play in and which managers they want to play for.

[Dick Dastardly]

For what its worth I think Scotland are not too far off having a reasonable team, with more of our young players heading to the English Premier it looking pretty good. Its too bad then we have an eejit like Levein in charge! This bloke should have been sacked for playing with no forwards in Prague, that one game says it all, he's not good enough! Then he gets a game against Brazil, we are predictably humped, we drop in rankings and enter the World Cup Qualifiers in Pot 4 rather than Pot 3 and he says the drubbing was a worthwhile exercise!!!

I agree that Stephen Fletcher should be a shoe in, I wonder also why Barry Robson didn't get a game, he has been outstanding for Middlesbrough and has genuine flair.

 

Time to ship out Levein and with this bunch of players a decent manager might achieve something - not could we not get Craig Brown back? is Tommy Docherty still alive? George Graham isn't doing too much these days? or th special one, John Lambie!!

 

Very much so. He lives not far from me and is a genuine nice guy. Doesn't have a good word to say for Sir Alex though.

[Mr Scruff]

I think the principle should be the same - if you choose to make yourself unavailable, for a reason such as not liking the manager's tactics, then you shouldn't be picked in the future either. We will never improve if we have a mentality among players who think they can just decide which games they want to play in and which managers they want to play for.

While I do have sympathy with what you say we don't have the luxury of an over-abundance of talent, and therefore the ability to discount any player on a point of principle. Professional players have developed a mercenary mindset, and we operate in that culture now. If Fletcher became available (and he was still our best option) I'd jump at the chance to see him selected.

 

The only caveat on that for me is those guilty of 'gross misconduct'. Still think a lifetime ban is harsh, but those guilty of that should be 'de-selected' for an appropriate period.

[Vladimir Putin]

While I do have sympathy with what you say we don't have the luxury of an over-abundance of talent, and therefore the ability to discount any player on a point of principle. Professional players have developed a mercenary mindset, and we operate in that culture now. If Fletcher became available (and he was still our best option) I'd jump at the chance to see him selected.

 

 

This is certainly a problem - we don't have a vast array of talant anywhere on the pitch, and certainly not up front. Miller has been pretty good for Scotland in general over the last few years and I have always appreciate his efforts, especially in a thankless lone striker role, but we need to think longer-term and Fletcher would be the best option based on technical ability and finishing, from what I have seen of him.

 

But for me it's about something more fundamental. Paul Ince said something yesterday about the current England squad not taking enough pride in playing for England, and not considering it as important as club games, and I think he was right, and it applies to Scotland too. We have lost something in recent years with our national team, arguably with football in general in Scotland.

 

It's not every player of course - Darren Fletcher could easily have prioritised getting fit for Man United instead of leading Scotland in what was likely to be a hopeless cause in trying to qualify, but he didn't, he gave 100% over two games despite hardly having played recently. We can't have a double standard where some players just show up when they feel like it and others give it everything, it sends all the wrong messages. It has to be all or nothing.

[Mr Bunny]

For what its worth I think Scotland are not too far off having a reasonable team, with more of our young players heading to the English Premier it looking pretty good. Its too bad then we have an eejit like Levein in charge! This bloke should have been sacked for playing with no forwards in Prague, that one game says it all, he's not good enough! Then he gets a game against Brazil, we are predictably humped, we drop in rankings and enter the World Cup Qualifiers in Pot 4 rather than Pot 3 and he says the drubbing was a worthwhile exercise!!!

I agree that Stephen Fletcher should be a shoe in, I wonder also why Barry Robson didn't get a game, he has been outstanding for Middlesbrough and has genuine flair.

 

Time to ship out Levein and with this bunch of players a decent manager might achieve something - not could we not get Craig Brown back? is Tommy Docherty still alive? George Graham isn't doing too much these days? or th special one, John Lambie!!

 

I'm not sure what you mean by reasonable team. We might have a team that could do well on occassion but there are limitations on how well we can progress at the moment. If you look at this this recent upswelling of good Scottish players who are playing in the EPL/Campionship they are nearly all midfield players: Adam, Bannan, Morrison, Fletcher, Howie, Robson, etc, etc.

 

If you look at the forward line we've got maybe Miller, Naismith (used more in midfield these days) and Fletcher (not likely to be picked any time soon) as reliable choices with Goodwillie as about the only promising new player (maybe McFadden will be back soon but then he's more of a midfielder who can play up front). So not a great deal of choice.

 

Defence is even worse. Hutton and Bardsley are decent full backs but apart from Wallace we're strugglng after that. Caldwell is a nightmare: he has one really good game every so often but most other times is a liability. Berra's a bit better but he's not really international class. Hanley and Wilson are highly rated but it's doubtful they'll be ready to be first choices for a few years yet. Who else is there? I think my point is proved by the fact that Weir was still getting caps last September aged 40.

 

This lack of quality defenders I think is part of the reason why we defend so deep when under pressure: midfielders like Adam and Fletcher may play for top sides like Liverpool and Man Utd but our centre backs play for teams struggling against relegation every year and they too easily slip into panic mode.

 

I think we lack a real leader in the team too. Mind you I'm not saying we're that rotten, it's good to have a few guys who're playing in the top half of the EPL but it's important to be aware of the weaknesses we still have and won't be addressed until some good enough young players break through.

 

Edited to add: I got carried away with that point I forgot to say - you can't blame Levein for the Brazil game, that was the SFA wanting to line their coffers at the expense of the national team's standing. I don't have much faith in Levein but those who argue he needs time maybe have a point.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Mr Bunny

[Lord Rosebury]

To me Naismith was by a distance our best forward over the last two games and one of the few on the park who looked comfortable with International football.

 

edited to add; Irrespective of the frailties of our forwards, I hope Fletcher rots in what particular hell awaits him. Any person who knocks back the National Team ahould be automatically barred for life. When his agent tells him that his value could be added to with International recognition I hope he`s chased

 

I thought Naismith came up short against the Czechs. He's quick, energetic, and has good movement but his first touch- an absolute essential at this level- is anything but comfortable. The result of this was that he gave the ball away- most notably just before the Czechs scored their opening goal. He was marginally better against Lithuania. He scored a decent goal but his goal to chances missed ratio suggests he's far from the shark in the box that he thinks he is.