Bbc Scotland Football Debate

[Stoggy]

Watching this debate just now and I can't help thinking that we have far too many organisations in football, and none of them can agree on the best way forward. Yes, they all agree we need to make changes, but they can't agree on how.

 

Scarely I find myself agreeing with Pressley!!!

 

Jim Traynor is still a fud. (and looks like Jabba the Hutt), Regan just annoys me, and Doncaster wears too much hair gel.

[Stoggy]

Quote of the week from Watty..............."Football is about footballers".

 

eh, thanks for that.

[jags on tour]

i thought it would be a lot of rubbish and just them talking about the spl and rangers but they are talking quite alot about the sfl and league reconstruction. fair play to pressley, he looks like he's ready to greet or stick the heid on neil doncaster!

[Woodstock Jag]

Sticks in my craw to say it but Stephen Pressley understands what's wrong with Scottish football better than the national team manager.

[angry gaz]

Scarely I find myself agreeing with Pressley!!!

 

Yep. me too Talking more sense than the others.

Doncaster just seems like a mouthpiece for the old firm.Seem's to think everythings rosey in the garden.Nothing will change with people like that around

[jags on tour]

someone ought to tell levein to get a shave before he's on telly, he's always rough and unshaven at scotland matches and he looks like some homeless trap in a suit pulled off the street.

[Big Dave]

Sticks in my craw to say it but Stephen Pressley understands what's wrong with Scottish football better than the national team manager.

I've been agreeing with his comments for ages, they have to reintroduce play offs. It's a no brainer unless your an idiot like Levein and that Doncaster fool! Quite glad I chose not to renew my travel club membership . A wee 2 fingers to the SFA and £50 towards my jags season ticket.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Not used to not being at a Jags game and my blood pressure was rising just refreshing the live update page. That was bad enough but then sitting listening to that feckin' talking shop was just about too much.

 

Agree that Pressley was the only one talking any sense.. Listening to Longmuir suggesting SPL/Div1 play offs when his own organisation is a closed shop makes me seethe.

[Stoggy]

someone ought to tell levein to get a shave before he's on telly, he's always rough and unshaven at scotland matches and he looks like some homeless trap in a suit pulled off the street.

 

I thought he looked like he should have had leather patches on his jacket elbows.

 

Soooooo what did we learn that we didnt already know? The square root of FA.

 

Regan opens his mouth and everyones brain switches off. Doncaster must be getting the full SKY package subscription free. Pressley maybe annoying for a lot of reasons but has moments of sanity. Petrie knows that he'll have to keep season ticket prices the same next season in the 1st division as in the spl.

 

oh and Traynor's neck is wider than his head, and he believes himself to be the saviour of scottish football as he has all the answers. TIT!!!

 

One saving grace was there was no sign of Chic Dung. Phew.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Stoggy

[Big Dave]

 

 

I thought he looked like he should have had leather patches on his jacket elbows.

 

Soooooo what did we learn that we didnt already know? The square root of FA.

 

Regan opens his mouth and everyones brain switches off. Doncaster must get the full SKY package subscription free. Pressley maybe annoying for a lot of reasons but has moments of sanity. Petrie knows that he'll have to keep season ticket prices the same next season in the 1st division as in the spl.

 

oh and Traynor's neck is wider than his head, and he believes himself to be the saviour of scottish football as he has all the answers. TIT!!!

 

One saving grace was there was no sign of Chic Dung. Phew.

haha! Yes if Dung had been on it I wouldn't have watched it!

[Stoggy]

Enjoyed the bit where doncaster was asked where he gets the figure of £20 million from.

 

His answer was along the lines of "well, that would be less games as clubs only play each other twice, so its less revenue."

 

In that case why dont we just make the league 8 teams and they could play each other 8 times a season?????

 

He was also asked a question about rangers, but seemed to answer a completely different question totally unrelated to what he was asked. A body swerve that Archie Gemmill would have been proud of.

[Stoggy]

Scottish football for me is summed up by a friend of mine who ran an amateur team. They had a young lad who was a defender and had been likened to Alan Hansen. He could play the ball out of defense and could actually PLAY football.

 

So he signs S form for Kilmarnock. Bobby Williamson is there watching the game. This lad gets the ball, runs forward, plays a pass, keeps going, receives the pass back, and lays on a great through ball for the striker to stick away.

 

Williamson happy at this skill? Nope.

 

He tells the lad that his job as a defender is to stay at the back and defend the goal. When he gets the ball he is to hit it forward to the strikers and not play anything fancy. He was also told if he did anything like that again he would be dropped.

 

This isnt the first time I have heard that of coaches/managers and its still the same guys or their type that are coaching today. No wonder our players cant trap a bag of cement.

[chunky jag]

I was really impressed with Pressley, I know he isn't a favourite of the Thistle fans, but if I was a Falkirk fan I'd be really encouraged that this guy was running the show.

 

We can have another one of these documentaries in another 20 years, until coaches change their mentality, and not screaming at kids for making a mistake, we'll never move on from kick and rush. Really made me want to cry to see how far behind Holland we are, their mentality with regards to youth development, it is literally light years ahead of us.

[Jaggernaut]

Did anybody else notice the irony of the general consensus that football had lost its way when it started importing expensive foreigners who were visibly no more talented than home players, and yet three of the representatives of the "Scottish" footballing authorities were English, and the "national" youth supremo is also a foreigner? These guys are earning more than what most of us will ever be able to earn, and yet it has to be asked, especially on what was coming out of their mouths last night: Is this the best that Scottish football can do?

 

Having said that, there was little to disagree with except for almost everything Doncaster said. He comes across as a huge twat, simply there to make millions for a wee group of clubs, with no interest in the development of football or the entertainment and competition factors.

 

Edited to add: Nice to see the Hibee guy last night refusing to join the sheep in saying that the h u n s must be saved etc etc. Instead he simply said that what people want to see is a level playing field, clubs playing by the same rules.

 

Too right!

Edited March 7, 2012 by Jaggernaut

[Mr Bunny]

I was really impressed with Pressley, I know he isn't a favourite of the Thistle fans, but if I was a Falkirk fan I'd be really encouraged that this guy was running the show.

 

We can have another one of these documentaries in another 20 years, until coaches change their mentality, and not screaming at kids for making a mistake, we'll never move on from kick and rush. Really made me want to cry to see how far behind Holland we are, their mentality with regards to youth development, it is literally light years ahead of us.

 

Yeah, couple of them on the show pointed out the pressure on youngsters from so-called coaches of boys teams and parents screaming and shouting. I'm not sure how they're going to be able to change this: despite us thinking our attitude of better football coaching is agreed by everyone, there seem to be a lot of people out there who either think kick and rush is fine or don't care about the future of our game - but who are in some way involved with football.

 

Stoggy - yup, in a foreigh team midfield lads would be being told to learn to cover for a defender doing that so that defense wasn't compromised, and the defender would be encouraged to go forward because it gives an attack from an unexpected direction. Our coaches .... what's the point.

 

Jaggernaut - Too right!

Edited March 7, 2012 by Mr Bunny

[Elginjag]

Consistencies from the programme 20 years ago......

 

1. All seemed to agree it has to change.

 

2. They cannot agree to change.

 

3. The differences between Scottish football and most comparable small European countries outlook and attitude remains.

 

4. Lack of investment.

 

5. Lack of grass root level facilities.

 

The list goes on, but it's actually WORSE, as Euro competition results prove, it was all PREDICTED 20 years ago. NO PROGRESS WHATSOEVER.

[Jaggernaut]

Consistencies from the programme 20 years ago......

 

1. All seemed to agree it has to change.

 

2. They cannot agree to change.

 

3. The differences between Scottish football and most comparable small European countries outlook and attitude remains.

 

4. Lack of investment.

 

5. Lack of grass root level facilities.

 

The list goes on, but it's actually WORSE, as Euro competition results prove, it was all PREDICTED 20 years ago. NO PROGRESS WHATSOEVER.

 

Excellent summary. The closing 5 minutes last night were in some ways laughable, as one after another they seemed to conclude that in spite of the awfulness of Scottish football at all levels just now, things are on the up!! Unbelievable!

[Mr Scruff]

Scottish football for me is summed up by a friend of mine who ran an amateur team. They had a young lad who was a defender and had been likened to Alan Hansen. He could play the ball out of defense and could actually PLAY football.

 

So he signs S form for Kilmarnock. Bobby Williamson is there watching the game. This lad gets the ball, runs forward, plays a pass, keeps going, receives the pass back, and lays on a great through ball for the striker to stick away.

 

Williamson happy at this skill? Nope.

 

He tells the lad that his job as a defender is to stay at the back and defend the goal. When he gets the ball he is to hit it forward to the strikers and not play anything fancy. He was also told if he did anything like that again he would be dropped.

 

This isnt the first time I have heard that of coaches/managers and its still the same guys or their type that are coaching today. No wonder our players cant trap a bag of cement.

There's an awful lot of truth in this, and I feel it gets to the heart of the matter.

 

Our coaches view Scottish Football as 'different' to other football in the world. The argument always was that our fans demand physical 'kick and rush' style approach with matches played at 150mph, and that our climate and pitches don't suit anything else. The one thing that should be glaringly clear to anyone with a passing interest in football is that the rest of the world has changed, and we haven't.

 

My youngest son plays in a youth team; the coaches are generally excellent and enthusiastic. The entire club is run well. But there's very much the attitude you describe - it's much more about 'getting stuck in' than and craft, guile or 'intelligence'. I find it difficult to pinpoint exactly where the attitude starts to go wrong, but I suspect it's in the view of professionalism. I believe that football in this country is not viewed as a profession, since that's too remote from the game's roots.

 

I contrast my youngest son's experience with the football team, with my oldest who as a competent (half decent) swimmer joined a swimming club. There the attitude was both ultra-competitive and professional, extending to matters of diet, overall fitness, technique and strategies. A world of difference to football - where there is more money, more coaches and far more facilities.

 

There's been a good debate on here, with many points I agree with. I believe league reconstruction is a must to incentivise a different approach. I think pitches should be changed to enable football to be played throughout the year. I believe that all the organisations from grass roots through amateur/ professional clubs to the national setup should be meshed together with common goals. And I believe that players and coaches should go through a structured qualification process, and that the route for players development should be more widely available (it's surprising how the power to enable players to develop is actually concentrated in a very few hands -the Bobby Willimaons story is illustrative). A great way would be if one of our colleges or universities were publically funded in association with the SFA to provide a structured development for potential players.

 

Self interest at every level has stopped this happening. Perhaps the demise (!!) of Rangers FC would give us all a once in a generation opportunity for top to bottom reform. I fear though it would take something of this magnitude to make it happen, otherwise there will always be a block by the clubs.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Mr Scruff

[Alan Murray]

Was the question of rangers 2010 discussed? Only watched the start of the program.

[Kirkie Jag]

Pressely came across really informed and I agreed with all of his points. I have a bit more respect for Pressely after last night. The show in general though was crap, nothing new learned, and nothing will be changed. They idiots in charge of our game could talk for an eternity and still not come up with something to change our game for the better. I was also hugely disappointed in Levein.

 

Agree with previous posts about the way our kids are trained. I remember we were told if playing against a technical player, just kick him in the air at every opportunity. Great coaching that was.

[chunky jag]

I too was slightly disappointed with Levein. The part where Pressley said clubs shouldn't be playing long ball game, as Mark Wotte's development programme discourages it, and Levein disagreed, going on about pressure on managers to get results and they can do what they want etc. It may sound snobby from Pressley, but his heart is the right place, our players in general are woeful technically, and It's easy to take a kick at someone in position of power, I get that clubs are under so much pressure financially, surely reconstruction would lessen the pressure on some of these clubs and they could try and put more emphasis on passing and movement and less on launching it up the field.

 

 

Forgot to mention I quite liked the wee snippets of what Stevie Thompson had to say, comparing it to the Championship saying it was more entertaining, and fans weren't as bored with repetition.

[stillresigned]

To be fair I thought Pressley was far and away the most rational Scottish contributer.

Loved when Uncle Walter said that fans and I guess we all know what kind of fans he means, only want to see a certain quality of player. Sorry, Walter I think that sort of approach is what got your lot into trouble, wasn't it.

As a whole the programme was the usual anodyne crap we've used to and of course SFA will change!

[McKennan]

It's kind of reassuring that, to a Jags fan, we are uniformly sick of the bollocks that passes for mainstream media debate about the future of football. Scots are big football fans but it's just that we're not spending as much our time and money following Scottish football.

[ian_mac]

Very much agree with what's been said here already.

 

Pressley, spoke very well and is actually practising what he preaches week in week out.

 

Levein, quite frankly a complete let down. A puppet for the SFA. Had he been a competent manager we might actually have made Euro 2012.

 

Doncaster, the guy is a complete short termist. Does not give a flying rat's ass what the fans think.

[Duck snort]

Very much agree with what's been said here already.

 

Pressley, spoke very well and is actually practising what he preaches week in week out.

 

Levein, quite frankly a complete let down. A puppet for the SFA. Had he been a competent manager we might actually have made Euro 2012.

 

Doncaster, the guy is a complete short termist. Does not give a flying rat's ass what the fans think.

 

Spot on about Doncaster. As far as he's concerned the SPL has got its' new Sky deal thanks to 4 Old Firm games a season and so everything's great, He's ignoring the fact that 90% of fans are sick of the current set up. If attendances continue to fall by the time the current deal ends there'll be hardly anyone going to the games and there's no way Sky will shell out again for games in virtually empty stadiums.