PaleGreySky Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Those who are being naive and thinking that Rangers wouldn't just cruise back into the SPL if they went into division 1 need to wake up. If they go into division 1 with a new company and no debts, all that will happen is their scummy fans will all turn up as soon as they have a winning run and they will have massive attendance revenue resulting in them gaining momentum and ending up near the top of the SPL in 2 years time. This is NOT sufficient punishment. Division 3 or I'm not coming to watch Scottish football again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Those who are being naive and thinking that Rangers wouldn't just cruise back into the SPL if they went into division 1 need to wake up. If they go into division 1 with a new company and no debts, all that will happen is their scummy fans will all turn up as soon as they have a winning run and they will have massive attendance revenue resulting in them gaining momentum and ending up near the top of the SPL in 2 years time. This is NOT sufficient punishment. Division 3 or I'm not coming to watch Scottish football again. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagtastic Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 It is going to take either league reconstruction or the SPL bending their guidelines again substantially to allow Newco into whatever version of the second tier exists at the start of the new season. The only one PTFC would have a say in is reconstruction. If the SPL dupe everyone by retrospectively docking ex-rangers points and relegating them instead of Dunfermline, then it's even more of a cop out than voting them back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Those who are being naive and thinking that Rangers wouldn't just cruise back into the SPL if they went into division 1 need to wake up. If they go into division 1 with a new company and no debts, all that will happen is their scummy fans will all turn up as soon as they have a winning run and they will have massive attendance revenue resulting in them gaining momentum and ending up near the top of the SPL in 2 years time. This is NOT sufficient punishment. Division 3 or I'm not coming to watch Scottish football again. I'm with you brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 It is going to take either league reconstruction or the SPL bending their guidelines again substantially to allow Newco into whatever version of the second tier exists at the start of the new season. The only one PTFC would have a say in is reconstruction. If the SPL dupe everyone by retrospectively docking ex-rangers points and relegating them instead of Dunfermline, then it's even more of a cop out than voting them back in. They are not Rangers, they cease to exist as Airdrie did and have to apply as a new club to enter at division 3 league membership is non transferable, plus any club that wishes to apply for a place must have 3 years accounts to show. That's the rules they need to apply them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Those who are being naive and thinking that Rangers wouldn't just cruise back into the SPL if they went into division 1 need to wake up. If they go into division 1 with a new company and no debts, all that will happen is their scummy fans will all turn up as soon as they have a winning run and they will have massive attendance revenue resulting in them gaining momentum and ending up near the top of the SPL in 2 years time. This is NOT sufficient punishment. Division 3 or I'm not coming to watch Scottish football again. I have noticed a few people mentioning not watching Scottish football again - is the National team and Craig Levein included in this or is it generall SPL, SFL people are referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagtastic Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Norgethistle, I know they're not rangers. At no point since their plug pulling day have I referred to them as that, it's been the best part of this whole phuck up in my opinion. I asked about the 3 year account thing on another thread and I'm quite sure the verdict was that "rule" is worded to allow flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagtastic Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Norgethistle, I know they're not rangers. At no point since their plug pulling day have I referred to them as that, it's been the best part of this whole phuck up in my opinion. I asked about the 3 year account thing on another thread and I'm quite sure the verdict was that "rule" is worded to allow flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Norgethistle, I know they're not rangers. At no point since their plug pulling day have I referred to them as that, it's been the best part of this whole phuck up in my opinion. I asked about the 3 year account thing on another thread and I'm quite sure the verdict was that "rule" is worded to allow flexibility. Precedent has been set with Airdrie, plus any other club that has gained entry to the league had to start at SFL3 they should be no different Edited June 23, 2012 by Norgethistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagtastic Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Exactly! The only way they can gain entry to SFL 1 as things stand is for the SPL to do a complete U turn and relegate them instead of Dunfermline. PTFC would have no say in that. The other access to the second tier is doing away with SFL 1 and reconstructing the leagues in a manner that allows Newco into the new second tier. We would have a say in that, and that is precisely what Beatties comments were alluding to. It might sound pedantic but people seem to think Beattie is suggesting they are allowed into div 1 under the current arrangement which has already been vetoed by the SFL president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleGreySky Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Im not a Scotland fan anyway. I would just go down south for football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blutarsky Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Those who are being naive and thinking that Rangers wouldn't just cruise back into the SPL if they went into division 1 need to wake up. Yip, crystal clear to me. SPL chairmen appear to take principled stance, which coincides with record low sales of season books due to fans dissatisfaction with prospect of newco in SPL. Deal done with SFL to allow newco into Div 1, debt free newco spend 1 season there. Damage limitation exercise. It's not me that's being cynical here, simply observing the cynicism of Self Preservation League selling the whole of Scottish football down the river. Where their cunning little plan comes unstuck is their assumption that normal service will be resumed from season 13/14. The new normal will at best be a complete cluster**** compared to the old normal. I don' t believe that fans of SPL clubs will fall for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Those who are being naive and thinking that Rangers wouldn't just cruise back into the SPL if they went into division 1 need to wake up. If they go into division 1 with a new company and no debts, all that will happen is their scummy fans will all turn up as soon as they have a winning run and they will have massive attendance revenue resulting in them gaining momentum and ending up near the top of the SPL in 2 years time. This is NOT sufficient punishment. Division 3 or I'm not coming to watch Scottish football again. Top ho Sir!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 They are not Rangers, they cease to exist as Airdrie did and have to apply as a new club to enter at division 3 league membership is non transferable, plus any club that wishes to apply for a place must have 3 years accounts to show. That's the rules they need to apply them Slightly changing topic here but what Airdrie United then did by killing Clydebank and then getting into divison 2 as a result also should have called into the question the integrity of the game. I fear Newco may also attempt this route if they don't get into the SPL or first divison - which should not be allowe either, however with the precedent set by Airdrie I am not sure if this could be stopped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Stronach Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 If the newhuns are allowed straight into the 1st Division, that will be me finished with Scottish football altogether. They can dress it up however they like by introducing play-offs and bigger leagues etc, but letting them into the 1st Division would be unforgivable in my eyes. I would just go and see West Ham more often than I already do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Exactly! The only way they can gain entry to SFL 1 as things stand is for the SPL to do a complete U turn and relegate them instead of Dunfermline. PTFC would have no say in that. The other access to the second tier is doing away with SFL 1 and reconstructing the leagues in a manner that allows Newco into the new second tier. We would have a say in that, and that is precisely what Beatties comments were alluding to. It might sound pedantic but people seem to think Beattie is suggesting they are allowed into div 1 under the current arrangement which has already been vetoed by the SFL president. Put aside what's deemed the most appropriate punishment for newco for a moment. Someone is tho' playing hardball. Someone is forcing the agenda. Longmuir/SFL? .....unlikely as the majority of his membership would be missing out on the newco gravy train. Regan/SFA?.......well, reports were recently leaked that they'd had enough of SPL/SFL procrastinating over merging. SKY/ESPN/media in general?.....obviously in their interest to get newco back in SPL to return to the 4xugly sister game routine. But would a more equitable spread of their money be in their interest and besides they would need mouthpieces within Scottish football to promote this notion? SPL/Doncaster?.....Well, the fella with that absurd haircut has been rather quiet of late but you get the impression his opinions are taken with a pinch of salt by the SPL chairmen. He does tho' have this SPL 1 & 2 agenda. SPL clubs in general have most to gain. Get rid of rangers (no point referring to them as newco in this scenario), re-jig the TV money then immediately have them back in the top division. They've got their way re TV money and only lost out on the additional revenue that lot bring for one year. However I don't think that the SPL could force the issue. No doubt they could suggest this fudge and create the means to drop newco upon us but they'd need an ally in either Regan or Longmuir. My money would be on the former, which is kinda backed up with the way the media have been kinda suggesting it's a done deal. We can see how this was sold to Beattie and I imagine many more Div 1 chairmen. I just can't see how Longmuir and the SFL in general are lying down to it all. I can only guess that it's either SFA orchestrated or at least SFA sanctioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) We like to think of ourselves at the Great Glasgow Alternative. That's not just an alternative to all the religious bigotry that surrounds the other two; it's also about rejecting the entire "maffia" (copyright: Mad Vlad) mentality that supposes that we must look after the OF, because it is to our own harm if we don't. That is basically an extortion racket, and now, more than ever, is the best time for PTFC to show that they we are indeed an alternative to decades of complicity, cheating, and corruption. Otherwise, we might just as well pack it all in. Edited June 23, 2012 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erty13 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 The newco rangers will survive, as their fans will keep them alive, just as we would do the same for thistle. If they go into the third division it will take them three years to get back to the spl, rather than just one if they are in the first division. What we are arguing over is two years, of punishment and some principles. I am probably in the minority, thinking that the opportunity to reorganize the league should be looked at. I personally would like to see the following. 1 if newco were allowed in the first division there should be two up two down. For a minimum period of five years. 2. All leagues should come under the one body so that the whole of Scottish football has a better share of all revenue. 3. The transfer ban on the newco should remain 4. All clubs have to live within their means, so no more dundee Livy or rangers financially cheating 5. The league format of the Glasgow cup should be agreed for the senior teams. This would give us an advantage over all the current first division teams. There are probably more things i would like to extract, but open for sugestions. All of the above could give us a chance of being back in the top league in a few years. If there is no changes to the league and newco are in the third we could still end up finishing fourth and have lost the opportunity to look after our own interests. Erty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 If Newco were forced into the 3rd division... How many teams currently in the 1st division would deliberately try to get relegated to the 2nd division so that they could a ) Get to play them one season sooner and get the funds in the bank? b ) Hope to get promoted with them so they could get 2 seasons' worth of gate money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) If Newco were forced into the 3rd division... How many teams currently in the 1st division would deliberately try to get relegated to the 2nd division so that they could a ) Get to play them one season sooner and get the funds in the bank? b ) Hope to get promoted with them so they could get 2 seasons' worth of gate money? I think (no, I hope) if Newco get into SFL3 then league reconstruction would see 2 top leagues of 16 and a league of 12 (with a pyramid system below that). Newco win SFL3 and go into SPFL2 (along with the bottom 6 SFL1 teams and the other 9 SFL2 teams) Bottom SFL2 team this season coming drops to the new SPFL3 along with the 9 remaining SFL3 teams. Then SPFL take applications from others for the 2 other slots. That reduces Newcos time out of the top league a year, sporting integrity will have been salvaged (if it at all can be due to this saga), ALL clubs will benefit financially as Newco climb the leagues and gives us the kind of league reconstruction the majority of us are wanting. It also rules out both your scenarios, although the teams coming with Newco from SFL3 to SPFL2 will benefit from 2 seasons of Newco, but they are the ones who need it the most anyway. That seems too neat and tidy for me. If you've kept up with what Im saying (even I struggled at times), can you spot any flaws in that scenario? Apart from the obvious that the SPL might not see 16 teams as financially viable of course Edited to add: Missed a bit. SPL/SFL1 promotion would continue as is for the coming season (1 up 1 down), and those finishing 2nd,3rd,4th and 5th would make up SPFL1 with the other 11 SPL teams. Edited June 23, 2012 by Steven H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I have noticed a few people mentioning not watching Scottish football again - is the National team and Craig Levein included in this or is it generall SPL, SFL people are referring to? It's the lot for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Not watching the national team will be a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) We can see how this was sold to Beattie and I imagine many more Div 1 chairmen. I just can't see how Longmuir and the SFL in general are lying down to it all. I can only guess that it's either SFA orchestrated or at least SFA sanctioned. But that would suggest that there was a person high up in the SFA who had a Rangers connection and ...... oh! Edited June 23, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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