Stuart Regan

[Jaggernaut]

He's back tracking already. On radio Scotland he was saying the social unrest comments were in a context of Sevco dieing. Still a lot of pish.

Due to the jaundiced view of our game south of the border, its just struck me as strange that two of our football organisations have English chief executives. Another example of cash over sporting integrity?

 

I'm afraid that's just part and parcel of the mentality amongst many Scottish organisations that if there are two equally incompetent candidates for the job, they should give the job to the one that comes from somewhere else, and that somehow this makes them look better.

[lennythistle]

I seem to be missing something here. what is it that the Jags have done wrong. almost to a man, woman and child we wanted them not to accept the proposal put to them. They did. They are also clearly stating that the set up in this country is wrong and it needs changing and that now is the time for the governing body to take a lead and sort out the game in this country. when at any time did PTFC become judge, jury, witness for the prosecution and jailer? We are not (in my eyes) fobbing off or passing the responsibility to anyone else.......IT WAS NEVER OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO BEGIN WITH. To date, the SFA and SPL have shirked responsibility not PTFC.

 

I've made my feelings quite clear on this for some time. As a consequence of their actions the newco should be in div 3. Earn the right to get through the leagues (not a certainty in my views, as long as rules are not bent to suit them). If in a few years they get back to SPL, have played by the rules and win it, good luck to them.

 

I want a level playing field for all. I want to see the sponsorship, tv monies et all done to benefit the many not the few. i have no intention of dancing on newco grave, for one , I can't dance! I just want the game changed from top to bottom to make it exciting again. I want that but not where we are asked to "sell our soul". For me the club stood up to that abomination of a proposal and said NO. That was all I asked them to do. They did it and as such I will be at Firhill tomorrow to pick up my season tickets. They kept up their end, I'll do the same.

 

When this all comes to an end, surely at some point it will, there is one last thing that has to be done. We organize our own Olympic style torch relay. Instead of torches, we have 3 stakes, each with the head of Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir on them and we parade them through the town and city of each SFL club in Scotland. It culminates with a burning of the bodies outside Hampden in a fire that you can see from outer space!

[McKennan]

Sky-high rhetoric worthy of a football fans' forum from Regan. Just about enough rope for him to swing, I reckon.

 

Social unrest? Does he mean glassing people in pubs? Setting fire to bins? P*ssing in the streets? Sh*tting in closes? Drunks flat out, puking into gutters? Staff at hospitals across the west of Scotland stitching knife wounds in A&E while cops look on? Rocketting rates of spousal battery?

 

What in god's name will happen when we don't have Rangers, Stewart?

[Allan Heron]

I seem to be missing something here. what is it that the Jags have done wrong. almost to a man, woman and child we wanted them not to accept the proposal put to them. They did.

 

Problem/challenge is that they haven't as yet - that will be down to the vote next week and there are many variables in the mix that might change. There's also the question of the club's approach to any attempt to set up SPL2.

 

This might be construed as being from the paranoid side of things but how about a scenario where PTFC vote to consign Newco to SFL3 and the jump ship to SPL2 if and when this is set up? Worst of all words imo.

 

As for DB, I no longer consider him someone whose judgement can be trusted. He was so far off the reservation with his interview as to beggar belief. He's used up every bit of goodwill that he had earned in a single day, and he and/or the club have struggled to deal adequately with this issue as a consequence.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Allan Heron

[angry gaz]

................to sum up then, Newco should be allowed in the SFL because their fans are Morons.

 

what a sad ,sad, sad ,day for football

[McKennan]

I seem to be missing something here. what is it that the Jags have done wrong. almost to a man, woman and child we wanted them not to accept the proposal put to them. They did. They are also clearly stating that the set up in this country is wrong and it needs changing and that now is the time for the governing body to take a lead and sort out the game in this country. when at any time did PTFC become judge, jury, witness for the prosecution and jailer? We are not (in my eyes) fobbing off or passing the responsibility to anyone else.......IT WAS NEVER OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO BEGIN WITH. To date, the SFA and SPL have shirked responsibility not PTFC.

 

Lenny, most of us have been asking that question for ages and the answer is that it's nothing to do with our club and the other clubs. Much the same was as it was nothing to do with you that RBS and the rest went all but tits up and you've now got your share of £1.3 trillion to find for a bailout.

 

I can't remember who said it but someone yesterday said this is as important for Scottish football as the collapse of the Berlin Wall was for European politics.

 

We're lumbered with a situation that we didn't ask for and those with responsibility are 'listening' to the fans - meaning they're trying to keep the fans on the sidelines and hoping someone else makes a decision.

 

Thanks to the likes of Regan there's an opportunity to mobilise the fans. It doesn't need us to work to some grand scheme, but it does need the fans to get together and talk.

[David Stevenson]

Any reasonable person would see no problem in suggesting that the supreme organisation overseeing Scottish football should take it's responsibilities seriously with regard to the current situation and also the wider picture. Problem is of course, that the organisation in question has one Stewart Regan at the helm.

 

Regan was one of those who drafted the poorly written, errorenous and scare-mongering document sent to SFL clubs last week and is obviously the source of the SPL2 threat, a threat made more stark and nauseating in the Scotsman interview at the head of this thread.

 

Calling on the SFA to intervene is either a very bad mistake in the circumstances or a master-stroke that has helped expose the fact that the SFA under Regan is part of the problem.

 

Regardless, no-one can now be under any illusions about the role that Regan sees for the SFA in the current situation: to bulldoze the SFL to ensure Newco gets into SFL1. I would like to think his bullying intervention and crass statements about civil unrest are enough to marginalise him and expose him to the ridicule that he deserves. It should also serve to act as a unifying force across the SFL. If that happens, as it should, I believe Thistle should be to the forefront of such a "movement" rather than being evasive as they have been recently.

 

Has anyone noticed that Doncaster is now saying that he doesn't believe there will be anyone going bust in the SPL despite denying Newco's application. That was his position On Wednesday. On Tuesday, Armageddon was on the cards. None of us on the outside know what the true fiscal position is, but we all know that we can't trust a word that Regan and Doncaster say. Longmuir had either been turned or beaten into submission. Either way, he's as much use as a chocolate teapot in the current situation.

[lennythistle]

Problem/challenge is that they haven't as yet - that will be down to the vote next week and there are many variables in the mix that might change. There's also the question of the club's approach to any attempt to set up SPL2.

 

This might be construed as being from the paranoid side of things but how about a scenario where PTFC vote to consign Newco to SFL3 and the jump ship to SPL2 if and when this is set up? Worst of all words imo.

 

As for DB, I no longer consider him someone whose judgement can be trusted. He was so far off the reservation with his interview as to beggar belief. He's used up every bit of goodwill that he had earned in a single day, and he and/or the club have struggled to deal adequately with this issue as a consequence.

 

Sorry Allan but I disagree.

 

The document put to the SFL was rejected. We have issued a statement saying NO to that document. I accept we have not said NO TO NEWCO in Div 3 but the proposal put to us was rejected. If the SFA, are going to change the proposal then let's see what their new one is and make our minds up on that. If not, our club will reject what is on offer. I think that is as clear as a bell.

[Dark Passenger]

IT WAS NEVER OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO BEGIN WITH. To date, the SFA and SPL have shirked responsibility not PTFC.

 

That would be all good and well had our chairman not acted as a mouthpiece for the two organisations you've highlighted. He was willing to accept the responsibility of speaking on their behalf to the Evening Times and Daily Record, but it would seem he's now desperately attempting to distance himself from that following fan pressure.

 

As I said, I see yesterday's statement as nothing other than a begging letter that pleads with the SFA to implement the changes it wants and which our board actually endorses.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

SPL clubs voted primarily for their own good. They want sevco out of the SPL but only for the shortest possible time.

Now we're told some of the SPL clubs could get into severe financial difficulty if sevco are out any longer than the one season. Forgotten my pinch of salt but is that not incentive enough to vote against newco being landed on us?

Beattie might argue that an SPL2 with newco in it would, thru the sweeteners & bribes, aid us compete with the lower end of the current SPL. Just doing the right thing by saying no to sevco and we're probably better off relatively against those same clubs.

Edited July 5, 2012 by lady-isobel-barnett

[lennythistle]

That would be all good and well had our chairman not acted as a mouthpiece for the two organisations you've highlighted. He was willing to accept the responsibility of speaking on their behalf to the Evening Times and Daily Record, but it would seem he's now desperately attempting to distance himself from that following fan pressure.

 

As I said, I see yesterday's statement as nothing other than a begging letter that pleads with the SFA to implement the changes it wants and which our board actually endorses.

 

Fair enough.

[lennythistle]

There is a possible way to resolve all this.

 

NEWCO/SEVCO/LEGSNO had a meeting last night. Ally was there, unsure if Green or any of the board were. 80% of their fans voted for Div 3.

 

So today I call on them to do the honorable thing. State you will go to Div 3. Call out Regan, ensure he puts in place, new TV, Sponsorship and all other relevant deals that benefit the many and not the selected few. Get the leagues revamped, with play offs and pyramid system.

 

You caused this shambles NEWCO, long over due YOU helped sort it !

[Allan Heron]

There is a possible way to resolve all this.

 

NEWCO/SEVCO/LEGSNO had a meeting last night. Ally was there, unsure if Green or any of the board were. 80% of their fans voted for Div 3.

 

So today I call on them to do the honorable thing. State you will go to Div 3. Call out Regan, ensure he puts in place, new TV, Sponsorship and all other relevant deals that benefit the many and not the selected few. Get the leagues revamped, with play offs and pyramid system.

 

You caused this shambles NEWCO, long over due YOU helped sort it !

 

That would work! They might even earn some respect for it as well. (Altthough I do accept the reality about the TV deals - we may get something that is more equitable but it will be a smaller amount)

Edited July 5, 2012 by Allan Heron

[Fearchar]

"Rangers are a huge institution in Scottish football history".

 

So were Renton.

[David Stevenson]

It has occured to me that his "riots in the streets" BS may be related to licensing by teh SFA. Otherwise, I can't think of a context where he would even talk such gibberish as no-one really expects Rangers to fold up.

 

But if Green's licence application wasn't up to scratch, the SFA should refuse a licence. Unless they are too scared to as a result of "civil unrest". Equally, I think C4News' Alex Thomson's blog and possibly other sources have stated that Rangers should not have been given a licence last season. It would all fit with regan's philosophy of "rules are there to be broken by me"....

 

Anyone think of an alternative stimulus for his guff?

[McKennan]

David, that's an interesting theory. I just think he's one of many people in the 'higher' echelons of Scottish football who have been, or are about to be, 'fun oot'.

 

Something to consider - his grubby paws have been prised off the steering wheel. He and his kind don't have control and they'll say and do anything to get it back.

[Mr Scruff]

It has occured to me that his "riots in the streets" BS may be related to licensing by teh SFA. Otherwise, I can't think of a context where he would even talk such gibberish as no-one really expects Rangers to fold up.

 

But if Green's licence application wasn't up to scratch, the SFA should refuse a licence. Unless they are too scared to as a result of "civil unrest". Equally, I think C4News' Alex Thomson's blog and possibly other sources have stated that Rangers should not have been given a licence last season. It would all fit with regan's philosophy of "rules are there to be broken by me"....

 

Anyone think of an alternative stimulus for his guff?

 

I think it just fits into the general message of the potential catastrophe if RFC in whatever guise are out of the SPL for too long. The genesis of it was probably the realisation that fans (including RFC fans) are less interested in TV deals and club finances and thus Div 3 is becoming the only show in town. I seriously don't think they'll withhold the licence, though they may still be suspended for a year.

 

I thought his statement was ludicrous. But the point about the unpredictable nature of sudden, unplanned, dramatic change in financial conditions is correct. Where he's most wrong is in trying to avoid proper future planning and instead scaremongering to enable a process of 'kicking the can down the road'. The similarties of the crisis in the Eurozone is particularly apt for me...

[Allan Heron]

I thought his statement was ludicrous. But the point about the unpredictable nature of sudden, unplanned, dramatic change in financial conditions is correct. Where he's most wrong is in trying to avoid proper future planning and instead scaremongering to enable a process of 'kicking the can down the road'. The similarties of the crisis in the Eurozone is particularly apt for me...

 

But how "sudden" was this. Rangers were heading for Administration from the moment Craig Whyte took over. It was being discussed as a possible outcome for a few years before that after HBOS had uncovered the ridiculous length's the BOS went to fund Murray's fantasies.

 

Any competent business would have been planning contingecies for this LONG before the shit hit the fan. They clearly haven't either within the SFA or the SPL. On that count alone, they have demonstrated their utter incompetence and should be shown the door.

 

And that's before I mention the quality of the report - I'd get my ass kicked if I submitted a report like that in my line of business. It was extremely unprofessional. Actually, it was beyond unprofessional. So if that was Longmuir's baby, then he's tainted by the same lack of competence.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Allan Heron

[Exiled AusJag]

Where is Regan's extensive research to show why there would be 'social unrest' without rangers.

As was pointed out in an earlier post, there have been many situations where unrest in the past have been directly linked to rangers, but without them, there is not the common bond to be tribal, as he so eloquently put it.

So what would happen? Would the old supporters organise rallies for civil unrest, in the name of rangers, or would there be individual acts of vandalism? Would they go to other games in large groups purely to cause trouble? No one really knows.

He's obvoiusly aware there has been social unrest in the past and is using that to justify his statement, so should the excuse for it be removed, or re-incarnated to allow it to raise it's ugly head again?

[Mr Scruff]

But how "sudden" was this. Rangers were heading for Administration from the moment Craig Whyte took over. It was being discussed as a possible outcome for a few years before that after HBOS had uncovered the ridiculous length's the BOS went to fund Murray's fantasies.

 

Any competent business would have been planning contingecies for this LONG before the shit hit the fan. They clearly haven't either within the SFA or the SPL. On that count alone, they have demonstrated their utter incompetence and should be shown the door.

 

And that's before I mention the quality of the report - I'd get my ass kicked if I submitted a report like that in my line of business. It was extremely unprofessional. Actually, it was beyond unprofessional. So if that was Longmuir's baby, then he's tainted by the same lack of competence.

Of course I completely agree with your overall points.

 

The 'can kicking' has been going on for some time. And there's only been this plan (ie SPL with main cash being predicated on OF) - no contingency has existed. You could give them the benefit of the doubt by suggesting hindsight is a wonderful thing, but that would be a generous interpretation.

 

But it will be "sudden" for those clubs that have planned for next season (or had planned for last season into this seasn) based on the current set up. Football clubs don't have the luxury of being able to change their cost base very quickly or easily without administration.

 

All this implies that the game has been at risk and needed substantial restructuring for a long time, and yes the lack of foresight and leadership is frankly terrible

[kni]

There is a possible way to resolve all this.

 

NEWCO/SEVCO/LEGSNO had a meeting last night. Ally was there, unsure if Green or any of the board were. 80% of their fans voted for Div 3.

 

So today I call on them to do the honorable thing. State you will go to Div 3. Call out Regan, ensure he puts in place, new TV, Sponsorship and all other relevant deals that benefit the many and not the selected few. Get the leagues revamped, with play offs and pyramid system.

 

You caused this shambles NEWCO, long over due YOU helped sort it !

 

I agree with all of that except the last sentence. As others have said, the collapse of oldco was no surprise. Yet, the governing bodies were not ready with a proposal(s) when oldco collapsed. Their behaviour since, if the reports are correct, has been appalling. We cannot trust them to sort this mess out and those responsible must resign now.

 

The SFL (not the SFA, Mr Beattie) should and will have the final say. It appears that (rightly) Sevco in Division 1 is not acceptable to the majority of the SFL clubs. Division 3 is the only realistic option and the authorities/sponsors will have to accept it and plan accordingly. Whether league restructuring can be delivered is another, and should be a separate, matter.

[La Scimmia Rossa]

There is no real surprise is any off this. I remember my good friend David Stevenson telling me the SPL was a house of cards and one day it would all implode. I think he thought the house would crumble from the bottom up. Not that the top of the house would cave in on the rest. Either way he was correct.

 

The SFA are the governing body. Regan has proved that they are completely useless and out of touch. I now wouldn't be surprised if Uefa step in to sort it out. Are there some Uefa rules about having things sorted pre Euro tournaments? The SPL might yet find itself on the end of some sort of UEFA punishment.

 

The problem for Partick Thistle is that the chairman and the latest club statement clearly give the impression that Newco in SFL1 MAY be acceptable if there was some incentive. That is a position that virtually no fan-apart from JJ it seems-shares. I am concerned we are heading for a Killie situation. The fans are against it but the chairman/directors think they know best. Which they don't.

 

Mr Beattie strikes me as an atypical football chairman. Reckons he's a business hotshot across all sectors. Has there yet been a businessman in Scottish Football who called anything correctly? With the exception of Fergus McCann?

Edited July 5, 2012 by La Scimmia Rossa

[Mr Bunny]

I think Fergus McCann's the exception because he was never involved in Scottish football before he came over here - and restricted his involvement to one task and then got out.

[stillresigned]

"Rangers are a huge institution in Scottish football history".

 

So were Renton.

Not to mention the Carron Iron Works!

[Capital Jag]

Let the SFA know what you think. It may well not be the same as I think but here's the e-mail I sent them this morning.

 

 

---------------------------------------

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Please pass on as appropriate within the SFA/SSC.

 

For months I have watched in dismay as the SFA has failed to show any leadership in a situation that threatens to rob Scottish football of any semblance of sporting integrity, a situation in which root and branch reform is clearly needed.

 

Such inertia may be acceptable from those office bearers with a clear conflict of interest in the Ranger/newco situation such as Mr. Campbell Ogilvie. The lack of action on the part of Mr. Stewart Regan has, however, baffled me for months. Imagine my surprise then at the dynamism suddenly shown by Mr. Regan yesterday as he hit the media to inform the fans of Scottish football that our views do not matter and that the newco must be allowed into SFL 1 immediately, failing which the nation will descend into civil unrest. I have rarely heard such ill-informed scaremongering, nor am I used to anybody speaking in an official capacity on behalf of any organisation making claims (spurious or otherwise) without providing some form of evidence to back them up.

 

Five of us who are all long-term members of the Scotland Supporters Club were about to purchase season tickets for the forthcoming World Cup qualification campaign. I am writing to inform you that we have decided to put that order on hold until such times as the SFA makes it position clear on MR. Regan's outrageous comments in the media. As a fan of an SFL 1 club, I will happily spend the equivalent amount on my club instead if the SFA continues to be used as a mouthpiece for the benefit of only one of its many members.

 

At a time when the vast majority of fans are calling for sporting integrity and for the SFA/SPL/SFL to stick to rules, customs and practices, the current attempts to make up reforms on the hoof and railroad SFL 1 clubs into accepting a club that the SPL clubs were unwilling to accept was bad enough when they were just the rabid outpourings of the sensationalist section of the media. To hear them re-iterated by an official of the body that is supposed to oversee Scottish football is incomprehensible.

 

I very much look forward to reading a clear public statement from the SFA Mr. Regan's comments and about how the Association thinks Scottish football should be run in the future.

-------------------------------------------