Latest Proposals

[Shuggie]

http://www.dailyreco...86908-23907368/

 

Quote from the Article:

 

SFL chief executive David Longmuir has spent this week negotiating with the SFA and the SPL a package of reforms, including play-offs and a change in the share of money and voting rights.

 

He hopes it will be enough to persuade his member clubs to allow the new Rangers to start again in the First Division.

 

Do you think this is accurate?? I would have thought that an actual quote from him would be what was needed. This looks like conjecture?

 

Without that sentence the article looked positive.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Shuggie

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Hope I'm wrong but looks to me that the SFL Board might have agreed on a unilateral decision. As I read it that means Livingston, Queens Pk & Dunfermline, previously a no vote, can no longer be counted on and the undecided Arbroath, Brechin & Alloa have joined Dumbarton as a yes to sevco in Div 1.

Edited July 12, 2012 by lady-isobel-barnett

[joejag]

Hope I'm wrong but looks to me that the SFL Board might have agreed on a unilateral decision. As I read it that means Livingston, Queens Pk & Dunfermline, previously a no vote, can no longer be counted on and the undecided Arbroath, Brechin & Queens Pk have joined Dumbarton as a yes to sevco in Div 1.

 

Reading elsewhere than Queens Park are saying NO. But then thats only an opinion.

[ColinKelvin]

"unrenegable"....? How can you trust anyone on this? They are getting ready to dump their own rules and parachute newco into div 1.... Anything agreed (in concrete or in blood) can / will be binned as soon as newco get back to SPL. It will be business as usual, top 12 or top 10, voting structure back in place to suit OF/SPL and screw the SFL clubs. We will have been used as a vehicle to get the closed shop of SPL back in business. Doncaster and Reagan will be happy and we will have been screwed along with every other club.

 

It is not even a case of "trusting" these untrustworthy scums, it is plain to see what they want because they have already stated their case until oldco went bust. They want a 10 team SPL. We are going to be USED to facilitate newco into SPL and then our services will no longer be required. Or is it just me?

 

It's possible to make a legally binding agreement, and if you believe (as I do) that SFL teams should make the most of a bad situation, this is exactly what should be done. I agree that we shouldn't be taking anything on trust - but if we can get a restructured league etc guaranteed, then that would be more than acceptable.

[Dunfermline Jag]

Two points.

 

First, it is not that long ago that Neil Doncaster was saying that a 16 team SPL would leave a £20M hole in their finances. He is now apparently prepared to offer that to plug a £16M hole caused by not having Rangers in the SPL. Either this is more evidence of his incompetence or at least one of his figures was made up (I suspect it was both, actually.)

 

Second, SFL clubs are now being asked to trust a body that recently threatened to withhold payments due to them under a legally binding agreement -a massive breach of trust.

[Capital Jag]

We all know that the purpose of these 'proposals' is solely to get the newco into membership of one of the leagues asap. It doesn't take a great conspiracy theorist to work out that one of the great advantages of this for them and the other cheek is that it becomes more difficult to get rid of them again once they have their crympline-uniformed foot in the door.

 

Today, I e-mailed a last minute plea to PTFC asking the Board to take a slightly different approach to the decisions the SFL is being asked to make on Friday. I know sporting integrity is important and I am one of the hold-outs not renewing season ticket yet BUT given the new revelations of the last few days I think it is time that the Board looks at the potential financial meltdown if the newco is voted into the SFL in any division as well as the question of integrity.

 

FWIW here is the text of the e-mail:

 

----------------------------------

Please pass on this final plea to the Board to think very carefully about how they vote on Friday.

 

I would prefer the Board came out with a clear statement in advance of the SFL meeting on Friday stating that PTFC will have nothing to do with the proposals to foist Sevco on the first division in return for a 'working party to think about possible future changes' to Scottish football. These changes can and should be negotiated absolutely separately from the question of what to do with Sevco, and on past performance by the SPL and SFA I find it hard to believe that PTFC would fall for their old 'jam tomorrow' trick.

 

Failing such a clear statement by the Board in advance of the meeting on Friday, then I would ask the Board to pay particularly careful attention to the financial data that has made its way into the public domain in recent days. Leaving aside questions of sporting integrity and the multiple legal cases still to be sorted out, we find ourselves in a position now where the SFL clubs are being asked, as a matter of urgency, to vote a newco into the ranks of the SFL despite the fact that we know nothing about the investors behind the newco, have had no time to do due diligence on them or their business plan and have no proof that they have the funds to complete a season in any division.

 

We DO now know that the oldco, even while in administration, managed to make a trading loss of £4 million from mid-February until the end of June, a quite stunning level of financial ineptitude DESPITE the massive wage cuts they made during that period. Nothing suggests that the newco has the investment to sustain such losses. It equates to a potential annual loss of £12+ million, although we do not know the full scale of the mess because neither the oldco, the administrators nor the newco are able to present accounts for 2011 and for 2012 to date. We also know that NO public pronouncements have been made by the newco suggesting that they have any plans in place to cut costs by over £1 million per month.

 

When this saga started I was of the opinion that the oldco/newco/sevco should have the chance to apply for membership of the league on an equal footing with any other potential applicants. Given the new financial information released in the last couple of days, I have now come to the conclusion that it is not in the interest of PTFC or the SFL to countenance membership at present in any division.

 

To call the financial state of the newco fragile would be a massive understatement. As such, I hope that PTFC will not risk causing any more damage to the reputation of Scottish football and will vote that any application from the newco be put on ice until such times as they provide full and proper insight into a) the past financial situation of the oldco, the financial situation during the period in administration, c) the current financial situation of the newco and d) the future business plans of the newco.

 

Le meas, Capital Jag

[Shuggie]

Well said CJ

[sandy]

As Double Ugly and others above say, the SFL should uncouple league reconstruction and the newco issue. Yes to the former, SFL3 application for the latter.

 

If Regan or Doncaster try to make reconstruction dependent upon newco getting an SFL1 berth, then it's coercion and blackmail

Edited July 11, 2012 by sandy

[read'n'yell]

From what I understood, there has to be a 10 - 2 vote by SPL clubs for a structural change. So how come all of a sudden it is up to the governing body to decide we need an extra 4 teams in the SPL?

[Lionel J. Botch]

The SPL / SFA / SFL have, in my opinion, made a huge error in the statement. They have agreed that there is a need to revamp the league structure. Collectively they agree to this. But they have shown their hand and I cannot get my head around why they have done this.

So if I were in the shoes of a team from SFL, I would be pushing for the change, with Newco in Div 3. There can be no conditions to the change if all 3 parties agree to it. To vote no loses nothing now.

 

For what it is worth, I doubt Newco will play next season at all. I fully expect either the SPL or Div 3 to run with a team short.

[simoncordiner]

The SPL / SFA / SFL have, in my opinion, made a huge error in the statement. They have agreed that there is a need to revamp the league structure. Collectively they agree to this. But they have shown their hand and I cannot get my head around why they have done this.

So if I were in the shoes of a team from SFL, I would be pushing for the change, with Newco in Div 3. There can be no conditions to the change if all 3 parties agree to it. To vote no loses nothing now.

 

I believe they are doing this for the very reason the SFL are pushing for the de-coupling of these issues. I believe the SFL are looking to get the structural reform roadmap agreed before Friday's vote. So that reform is agreed no matter the outcome of the vote. That seems like a good position to me. There's no denying it's a sweetener, but at least the SFL haven't bought the "vote for this and we'll agree reform later" biscuit.

[twinny]

I'm getting so tired of this that I'm wondering if we should just accept based on the fact we'll be getting a larger SPL and the other fact that the saga might finally be over, at least in its current form. I'd want the proposals to be more concrete though.

 

As DU says, the two issues of league restructure and sevco should be separate, does anyone believe there is any realistic hope with that though?

[Allan Heron]

A terrific analysis of the situation facing Scottish football.....

 

http://rangerstaxcas...-chance-saloon/

Edited July 12, 2012 by Allan Heron

[jagfox]

The problem is that re-construction seems intertwined with getting Sevco a kneeling at the Spl trough asap.

I hope that there is an opportunity to separate the two issues on Friday but the vote/ votes seems as muddied as the rest of this summers dark waters.

I think you make a good point with feeling tired of the whole cluster**** and the cartels, sorry associations will hope the clubs and their fans will just shuffle back to whatever is placed in front of them

Edited July 12, 2012 by jagfox

[joejag]

I'm getting so tired of this that I'm wondering if we should just accept based on the fact we'll be getting a larger SPL and the other fact that the saga might finally be over, at least in its current form. I'd want the proposals to be more concrete though.

 

As DU says, the two issues of league restructure and sevco should be separate, does anyone believe there is any realistic hope with that though?

 

But we are NOT being promised this, only that a committee will look at the proposals and will report back by 3oth November??? And since last night it has benn changed to "In the event that a decision has NOT been taken by 3oth November the SFA shal sek to implement a new structure for sesaon 2013-14" ??? What structure? I bet the status quo and Scumgers Newco back in SPL and us DIDDY teams told to like it or lump it. TOTALLY SHAT ON! And if our Newco Ass rimming board accept it then Thistle DESERVE to die.

[Fellow Traveller]

We're all tired of it, understandably, but it's coming to the crunch with these meetings and the season (I hope) about to start, so might as well slog through it to the bitter end.

 

The mind-numbing tactic of being such a constant and complete disappointment that folk get fed up and eventually just leave you to get on with it is a Scottish football classic from the Jags Trust to Craig Levein to the corruption of these administrators. Time should be up on that one.

[stillresigned]

I've really thought about why there's such a huge disconnect between the vast majority of Scottish football "punters" and the so- called elites in the media SPL/ SFA etc..

Unfortunately, I cannot come up with a reasonable answer as to what to most people is a fairly straightforward case of cheating and moral and financial bankruptacy and the lies and ditortions practisedby those who would be rulers or custodians of our sport.

I just hope our Bod's listen to their own support and tell the desperate duo where to get off.

And if someone could give me a credible explanation for this breach between "the governed and the governors" I'd be much obliged.

[Capital Jag]

With the latest Div 3 statements from Peterhead and Arbroath (who also have somebody on the SFL Board) it is looking increasingly unlikely that the pressure of the SFA, SPL and their mates in the media is working. I still stick with my view that 'they' are too much of a financial basket case to be allowed entry at all at the moment but now hope that our board will smell the coffee and vote for div 3 so we can all get on with the fitba again.

[Trotter]

If you look at the positive side of things, no new statement would mean the club's rep at tomorrow's meeting will be voting 'no' as indicated in their previous statement.

[Obanjag]

This Rangers newco, SPL and SFL shambles needs to end tomorrow. Newco into SFL 3; Dunfermline to stay in SPL and proper League reorganisation discussed and planned over the coming season for introduction in season 2013-14 or 14-15.

[Junior]

I know most of us have done it already but it is the time to throw another email at the club, SFL and SFA to make them aware of how we all still feel. it many not be that effective but at least it means they can see people are still pissed off.

[Mr Scruff]

If you look at the positive side of things, no new statement would mean the club's rep at tomorrow's meeting will be voting 'no' as indicated in their previous statement.

I don't know which way the club will vote. But I see the latest SFL statements, and the wording of resolution ii tomorrow both being compatible with the club's last statement (ie they would vote yes to resolution ii).

 

They could argue that they didn't vote for 'Rangers' to be admitted to SFL1 this way, despite that being the obvious consequence.

 

As 'Fellow Traveller' said elsewhere, they're missing an open goal...

[uberteeb]

There's still just no connection between the need to restructure and the placing of the newco and anyone who forces them into one bundle is immediately not to be trusted. Uncouple them, put newco in Div 3 and start discussing this plan on its own merits on Monday morning.

 

This is it exactly.

 

Apart from Newco in Div 3, I'd make them wait until they have 3 years of accounts in order to comply with the rules of gaining membership.

[Trotter]

I don't know which way the club will vote. But I see the latest SFL statements, and the wording of resolution ii tomorrow both being compatible with the club's last statement (ie they would vote yes to resolution ii).

 

They could argue that they didn't vote for 'Rangers' to be admitted to SFL1 this way, despite that being the obvious consequence.

 

As 'Fellow Traveller' said elsewhere, they're missing an open goal...

 

Agreed- unfortunately.

 

Season over before it starts.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

This is it exactly.

 

Apart from Newco in Div 3, I'd make them wait until they have 3 years of accounts in order to comply with the rules of gaining membership.

Not enough is being made of the fact that putting sevco straight into Div 3 is a major compromise. If that had been better publicised then so much pressure would have been lifted off the chairmen/clubs who have announced opposition to the ludicrous Div1 notion.