general george Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 There is a beautiful irony about all these clubs with h un tendencies going out of buisness. First we had Airdrie, then R*ngers and now the Jambos. K*llie next??? What a load pish, what has clubs with H*n tendencies got to do with it. Perhaps you should be on the Green Brigade forum instead with those views. How do you think that fans from other clubs perceived Thistle in the days of "Save the Jags". Did they think that we were h*ns because of our past associations with Rangers in the 1950s and 1960s as well as accommodating the Orange Order with various parades at Firhill in the 1980s. Or perhaps they perceived us as Tims after we started cosying up to Celtic or did they just see us as a club who had got into financial difficulties that perhaps required a bit of help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 What a load pish, what has clubs with H*n tendencies got to do with it. Perhaps you should be on the Green Brigade forum instead with those views. How do you think that fans from other clubs perceived Thistle in the days of "Save the Jags". Did they think that we were h*ns because of our past associations with Rangers in the 1950s and 1960s as well as accommodating the Orange Order with various parades at Firhill in the 1980s. Or perhaps they perceived us as Tims after we started cosying up to Celtic or did they just see us as a club who had got into financial difficulties that perhaps required a bit of help! H un alert! Away back to your sevco boards now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Fair points but whatever the reason the fact is they get a nearly full stadium every game in the league. There would be no reason to think if Dunfermline and Hearts went the same way all their fans would go shopping and be lost forever to football. That's all I was saying that the end doesn't always have to be the end. Fair enough. I think Hearts and Dunfermline have a little advantage (though at least for a while they'd lose fans) in that the expectations on them are not so huge as at Ibrox and they could survive (as you say) being stuck in the lower divisions for some years. This isn't the case with Rangers. Rangers need to be winning their division then the next one and they need to project the idea all the time that they are going to be a huge club again - even though that's unlikley for a long while if ever. The media help try to promote this but hard facts are against them long term, things like the cost of maintaining Ibrox, the unnecessarily high wages they are paying, police and stewarding costs and so on, not to mention their fans will demand big signings as soon as the transfer ban is over - even before, they'll demand expensive out of contract players to be signed soon. It's very possible they can manage this of course but IMHO it's a knife edge - only needs one or two things to go wrong (like the share issue) and they are in deep trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Fair enough. I think Hearts and Dunfermline have a little advantage (though at least for a while they'd lose fans) in that the expectations on them are not so huge as at Ibrox and they could survive (as you say) being stuck in the lower divisions for some years. This isn't the case with Rangers. Rangers need to be winning their division then the next one and they need to project the idea all the time that they are going to be a huge club again - even though that's unlikley for a long while if ever. The media help try to promote this but hard facts are against them long term, things like the cost of maintaining Ibrox, the unnecessarily high wages they are paying, police and stewarding costs and so on, not to mention their fans will demand big signings as soon as the transfer ban is over - even before, they'll demand expensive out of contract players to be signed soon. It's very possible they can manage this of course but IMHO it's a knife edge - only needs one or two things to go wrong (like the share issue) and they are in deep trouble. Thanks for that. That prospect has cheered me up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general george Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 H un alert! Away back to your sevco boards now. How do you work that one out. I know where I will be tomorrow, can you say the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 How do you work that one out. I know where I will be tomorrow, can you say the same. Oh, I know where I'll be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Reported on 5Live tonight that five other clubs in Scotland are heading into financial difficulty, although precisely who they don't clarify. There have been a good number of clubs for a long time in Scottish Football (especially the SPL) who have been living on the edge and most of us have known them for a long time - e.g. Dunfemline, Killie, Hearts, etc. and more who while not on the edge have to be very careful. This isn't news. At least not to anyone who is even slightly aware of what's been going on in Scottish Football. Edit to add: while maybe only a handful of clubs are in real danger at the moment, there are many (in both SPL and SFL) who have been having to cut back costs in the last few years. Probably only Celtic and St Johnstone are the only really financially secure clubs around, Edited November 9, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottymagoo Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Something needs to be done to stop owners 'lending' clubs money they'll never be able to affiord to pay back à la Hearts and Gretna. They are taking the decision themselves to borrow money from themselves and subsequently loading clubs with debt while they play real life fantasy football and when they can no longer support the costs it's the fans that are left to pick up the pieces. Mad Vlad spent the miiliions and it should be him paying them, not football fans. At higher level this is what UEFA's financial fair play rules are supposed to prevent but something along these lines needs to be implemented at lower level. Mad Vlad: "Would Hearts like to borrow some money to buy players Mad Vlad?" Mad Vlad: "Yes please Mad Vlad. Can I have £20 million or so please?" Mad Vlad: "No problemo Mad Vlad. Now don't forget Hearts need to pay me/you back Mad Vlad" Mad Vlad: "Will do, thanks Mad Vlad" Mad Vlad: "You're welcome Mad Vlad" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Grant and George cut the crap OF chat. It's beneath you both as good Thistle men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Not caught up on paper, Scotsman, but it seems the Jambos now need two million to survive the season. I assume this would include the £450,000 PAYE bill but not the £1.75 million potential bill for the loan players? At least the Jambos have a target to meet. Will this liability sink the Vlad-bonds share-issue? Don't think the game could afford to lose the Hearts ala Sevco, so I hope their fans rally round and raise the cash and get an exit strategy in place for Mr Romanov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) I think it's very possible for hearts to survive (albeit maybe via administration and relegation to Div 1) but it all depends on Vlad. If he wants to take the hit - and he's losing money whatever he does - he can put them in admin, shed the debt (though a lot of the debt is to himself) and the club is OK. The only thing is he may want to get something out of it and since Tynencastle is in a good area for buidling new property he may sell it off in a few years time when there's an upturn and meanwhile charge Hearts to play there. So it's possible while they can survive medium term they may eventually have to move and that could be a problem. Unless they ground-share with Livingstone. Edited November 9, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Edit to add: while maybe only a handful of clubs are in real danger at the moment, there are many (in both SPL and SFL) who have been having to cut back costs in the last few years. Probably only Celtic and St Johnstone are the only really financially secure clubs around, And thats the key, cut your cloth accordingly, every household and well run company in the country does that. When in a recession look for savings in the good days invest for the future, not the spend spend spend of Rangers, Dundee, Dunfermiline and Livi in the past I don't believe St Mirren or Caley have any debt either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Vlad has reportedly come in to pay the PAYE and VAT bill. The circus rolls on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Too many clubs spend money they don't have it's simple - this year income £6m expenditure £8m - that and romanov has got financial troubles of his own....the solution will be administration and hearts will survive in some shape or another Whether anyone learns the lesson is another matter ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I think it's very possible for hearts to survive (albeit maybe via administration and relegation to Div 1) but it all depends on Vlad. If he wants to take the hit - and he's losing money whatever he does - he can put them in admin, shed the debt (though a lot of the debt is to himself) and the club is OK. The only thing is he may want to get something out of it and since Tynencastle is in a good area for buidling new property he may sell it off in a few years time when there's an upturn and meanwhile charge Hearts to play there. So it's possible while they can survive medium term they may eventually have to move and that could be a problem. Unless they ground-share with Livingstone. Or with Linlithgow Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G SUS Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Or with Linlithgow Rose. Or Edinburgh City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Or Edinburgh City. Correct. i.e., Meadowbank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Too many clubs spend money they don't have it's simple - this year income £6m expenditure £8m - that and romanov has got financial troubles of his own....the solution will be administration and hearts will survive in some shape or another Whether anyone learns the lesson is another matter ! And does the biggest implosion of our time or in footballs history learn from its mistakes? No Still spending money it doesn't have with a £7,000,000 a year playing wage (As mentioned by Greene the other night), a reported £300,000 a year policing bill, Ibrox & Murray park costing around £1,500,000 a year to maintain plus the back room staff and administrative wages probably another million they'll be trading at a huge loss this year (rumoured to be near £2,000,000), their 1st year after liquidation and god help them if they don't go up or get hit with more sanctions. We and many other clubs have learnt the lessons of the past to some extent and have cut costs accordingly.No more 6 figure signings from St Mirren, no signings for cash at all, if we don't have it we don't spend it. A few are still trying to outplay the banks and the system but they will get caught out sooner or later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Too many clubs spend money they don't have it's simple - this year income £6m expenditure £8m - that and romanov has got financial troubles of his own....the solution will be administration and hearts will survive in some shape or another Whether anyone learns the lesson is another matter ! could be wrong but as the main debit is to HMRC who dont do deals (pence in the pound) does this not mean liquidation rather than administration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 And thats the key, cut your cloth accordingly, every household and well run company in the country does that. When in a recession look for savings in the good days invest for the future, not the spend spend spend of Rangers, Dundee, Dunfermiline and Livi in the past I don't believe St Mirren or Caley have any debt either You're right I think. I forgot about the highland clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 could be wrong but as the main debit is to HMRC who dont do deals (pence in the pound) does this not mean liquidation rather than administration Their biggest debt is to Romanov!! About £20 million plus. They can put themselves into administration and have some control of it - though unlike the Rangers admin they'll have to flog off players and cut costs. HMRC could force Rangers as was into liquidation because they held the biggest debt, not so with Hearts so they can't be liquidated unless Romanov thinks it's best for his own interests. I know HMRC have issued a winding up order which can lead to liquidation but the club has time to find the money if it can (hence the share issue which is probably a waste of hearts fans money) but if they don't Romanov still has the option of putting the club into admin if he wants. Basically it's down to Romanov - the clubs future very much depends on which way he jumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Their biggest debt is to Romanov!! About £20 million plus. They can put themselves into administration and have some control of it - though unlike the Rangers admin they'll have to flog off players and cut costs. HMRC could force Rangers as was into liquidation because they held the biggest debt, not so with Hearts so they can't be liquidated unless Romanov thinks it's best for his own interests. I know HMRC have issued a winding up order which can lead to liquidation but the club has time to find the money if it can (hence the share issue which is probably a waste of hearts fans money) but if they don't Romanov still has the option of putting the club into admin if he wants. Basically it's down to Romanov - the clubs future very much depends on which way he jumps. thanks, wasnt sure how much more was owed to others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Their upcoming game against st mirren, they have put the kids prices up 50% to £20 for an under 18 and £10 for an under 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 If the £81 million at Dunfermline is true, that is totally shocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 It's been that price for all clubs since the start of the season. St Mirren fans are just being hysterical because it was much cheaper last season. Plenty of fans of different clubs confirm this on P&B. http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/page/Prices/0,,10289,00.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.