scotty Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 I could live with the split 8-8-8 model. But absolute no to colt teams. agreed So, is this a cunning plan? Offer fans something so diabolical they'll accept the previous plan which was just crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 I'm liking the idea that the orcs will be boycotting away games next season if 12-12-18 goes through. Hopefully we can persuade them to boycott home games too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 100% accurate. And don't forget the serial administrations at Dundee and Livi as well as Motherwell's shambles. The ridiculous debts at Hearts and |Dunfermline which have pushed those clubs close to demise; the unsustainable level of debt at Kilmarnock (relegation 2 years ago would have seen them in administration) and Aberdeen (reduced purely by Milne converting debt to shares). The SPL has been a shambles from day one yet the people running the majority of those clubs still behave like they are business geniuses. Reminds me of RBS and HBOS............ .... who were heavily involved in the corruption of Scottish Football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) They really are a bunch! I can't make up my mind whether they are acting like kids or bullies. What's next ? So much for just getting on with it Edited March 14, 2013 by Lenziejag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 One of the cornerstones of the reconstruction argument was the redistribution of finances. That got me thinking. We used to have that when gate receipts were shared. Funds could be redistributed without resorting to weird set ups. It would just take willingness of the clubs to do it. All this stuff about 16 team leagues being unaffordable is unfounded. How do they know, it's not been tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussex coast Jag Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Maybe One Day They will Listen to The Fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Think the widespread nature and the spontaneity of the fans protests around the rangers issue caught the football authorities on the backfoot but now that issue has been resolved looks like its back to the same old. Its a shame that the popular anger expressed by fans over the rangers stuff did not lead to an fans representative organisation like the have in england with the football supporters federation to represent the interests of fans accross the club divides which would be able to provide an input into any negotiated settlement within scottish football. As for Longmuirs 'the OF are eventually gonna leave the scottish set up anyway' take, if hes of the opinion that scottish football is too crap to hold our 'best assets' then kinda makes one think, why would any scottish club wish to stay in this set up? As for 50/50 gate splits, think that idea should be put to bed. Surely we would be wanting to imagine a scottish football not dependant upon celtic and rangers subsidies? Making it 50/50 to get some more OF cash injection seems kinda like the opposite to me... Edited March 14, 2013 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 MrD, I think you have fallen for the Old Firm spin that they are subsidising Scottish Football. If they didn't have somebody else to play, I can't see anybody(let alone 50,000 or 60,000) turning up at Ibrox or Parkhead. Way back in the beginning, somebody decided(presumably including Rangers and Celtic) that sharing the gate was a good idea.If anybody knows how to get old minutes of meetings, that would be interesting to see why. It was simply greed that changed to home teams keeping the home gate receipts. Anyway, my point was not that we should go back to sharing gates, but rather that financial redistribution can be accomplished without reconstruction, by the clubs just deciding how to allocate the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 As for 50/50 gate splits, think that idea should be put to bed. Surely we would be wanting to imagine a scottish football not dependant upon celtic and rangers subsidies? Making it 50/50 to get some more OF cash injection seems kinda like the opposite to me... I was discussing this with a Motherwell fan at work and we couldn't agree on when shared gates ended. Can anyone remember (accurately) when this came to pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Only indirectly about this http://www.raithrovers.info/2013/02/open_meeting.mp3 But interesting at least historically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 I was discussing this with a Motherwell fan at work and we couldn't agree on when shared gates ended. Can anyone remember (accurately) when this came to pass? Was it not 1975 when the league format changed? Not that I was around back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 76 I think. We won the league that year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydebankJag Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Shared gates redistribute funds across all clubs but lets not forget that in our current situation we'd have much less money coming in and that could mean we'd find it harder to get promotion. It was only a few months ago people on here were moaning about the poor away supports at Firhill. These clubs would get more from an away game at Firhill than we'd get from a visit to their ground. In short we'd be beneficiaries in the SPL but we'd lose out big time in the SFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) In short we'd be beneficiaries in the SPL but we'd lose out big time in the SFL There are arguments in both directions: more evenly distributed revenues would result in a more competitive situation but it could provide less encouragement for clubs to make an effort to attract home fans. But if you look back, Scottish football was more competitive and successful internationally and at Euro club level when there was a more even spread of wealth. Things have changed drastically elsewhere of course (i.e. English fitba is awash with money which is distorting the football economy here to a far greater extent than it ever did before), so we could have a more even spread and still get nowhere, but I do think the balance of the argument favours a narrower degree of difference. On the date question, I had thought it was late 70's/early 80's for the elimination of shared gates. The Murrawell guy reckoned 1998, the initiation of the doomed project called the SPL. I would still like to know definitively though! Edited March 15, 2013 by David Stevenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Quick point on Colt Clubs. If Longmuir thinks the erse-cheeks were to go South there would be no precedent of either leaving a team in our FA jurisdiction or either team being eligible for its competitions, i.e. FA cup. The 6(?) Welsh teams in the EFA sphere no longer compete in the FAW Cup and have no clubs in the League of Wales. Unlucky old bums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Not sure if it would have an impact on away crowds but would it be worth implementing a league wide discount for visiting season ticket holders, even £2-3 off per ticket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Raith Rovers chairman says it as it is, blackmail, intimidation http://www.raithrovers.info/2013/02/open_meeting.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ard Jag Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 On the date question, I had thought it was late 70's/early 80's for the elimination of shared gates. The Murrawell guy reckoned 1998, the initiation of the doomed project called the SPL. I would still like to know definitively though! My recollection is that it was late 70's early 80's, based on that I (think I) remember Thistle (for once) got lucky and made a few bob from playing Hibs on George Bests home debut (1979) and it happened not long after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Major League Baseball revenue sharing discussed in the New York Times - Baseball’s revenue-sharing system was designed to increase the competitiveness of small-market teams that presumably lack the financial muscle to compete with wealthier franchises. Redistributing wealth would give poor teams more resources to improve their rosters, and richer clubs would have less money to extend their financial advantage. This includes sharing profits from shirt, merchandise sales. The merits of such a system can of course be argued, but I find it interesting that those crazy capitalist Americans have a far fairer system for their sporting teams than we would ever consider in this country! The blue and green tinted media would laugh this idea out of town, but in a country with one of the most unbalanced football leagues in the world, this would be the best way of improving it. Edited March 17, 2013 by peagreenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Major League Baseball revenue sharing discussed in the New York Times - Baseball’s revenue-sharing system was designed to increase the competitiveness of small-market teams that presumably lack the financial muscle to compete with wealthier franchises. Redistributing wealth would give poor teams more resources to improve their rosters, and richer clubs would have less money to extend their financial advantage. This includes sharing profits from shirt, merchandise sales. The merits of such a system can of course be argued, but I find it interesting that those crazy capitalist Americans have a far fairer system for their sporting teams than we would ever consider in this country! The blue and green tinted media would laugh this idea out of town, but in a country with one of the most unbalanced football leagues in the world, this would be the best way of improving it. That's because these crazy capitalists realise that individual clubs are only part of the business - the whole business is the league system and that means that although you can't make everyone perfectly equal you can even out the worst of the imbalances of wealth and try to create a more competitive league which will be more attractive to customers. We have it even worse in Scotland because the natural advantage from big supports that the OF get is magnified by the bigotry effect giving them even more of an edge. The OF always had and will have an advantage (unless one of them goes under again) in size but it wasn't always as massive as it is now. In previous times a club that found an exceptionally good manager and developed a group of good young players could for a short time beat the OF, winning titles and cups - Hibs, Hearts in the 50s, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen in the 80s. Since then a combination of things have exaggerated the OF advantage - e.g. TV money, sponsorship (due to guys who never get of their TV couch buying merchandise) and Bosman which meant it was much harder for smaller teams to hold on to good players they developed. Of course these same things have worked against the OFs ambitions to be 'big' UK/Europe brands as EPL and big Euro-nations money far outstrips theirs, even with illegitimate bank loans and dodging taxes. The odd success of reaching a final (in the last couple of decades) was for them a flash in the pan with them more often being knocked out in the early rounds. I don't see much hope of this being fixed really unless the OF leave Scottish football. Without them of course football would never be what it was - but that's true now even with them. But if we accepted that we'll never be a force again and just tried to develop into a middle-strength football nation we might be able to achieve that or t least a decent level. Shared money would help; the Bosman problem might be made better by expanding the options for compensation for losing players (something that really needs looking at IMO). Went on a bit there, but you could have skipped it...but if you made it this far I'll add one more thing ... While Rangers were spending our money (by tax dodging and getting loans they never should have from bankers who were frauds and we had to bail out) the self same bank supporting them with continual loans of millions (secured by imaginary assets) put the squeeze on all the other Scottish clubs who had loans with them forcing them to cut back. Capitalism? Cronyism I'd call it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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