jagsman411971 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 If this goes through, I can't see it changing for the foreseeable future. Probably at least 4/5 years before the next stage. Hopefully by then the sfl teams will be strong enough to merit a larger top league. Thats what I was thinking. The clubs should also be encouraged to try and tailor their budgets over that period, so that they could easily cope with the loss of the 3 or 4 home games, that a larger league would bring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 You could argue that the proposed set up does favour 2nd place. The teams finishing 3rd & 4th go straight in to 2 games once the league is finished, while the SPL is still in the regular season. 2nd place gets a weeks rest before playing the winner of 3 and 4. Maybe not much of an advantage but at least some time to prepare ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Ideal scenario - we finish tenth on a single goal difference to DU in eleventh and Dundee beat them in the play off final on penalties. Happy days! Surely the "ideal scenario" involves us winning the league! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Surely the "ideal scenario" involves us winning the league! By beating Dundee United at Tannadice, with the aid of some dubious referreeing and Celtic being resigned to the Playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thriller Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 I`m all for it as long as the h*ns are in 3rd of 4 leagues .Sporting integrity and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Ideal scenario - we finish tenth on a single goal difference to DU in eleventh and Dundee beat them in the play off final on penalties. Happy days! Nah ... how about Falkirk or someone else beat them, and Dundee stay down, so that Bomber 'fkwit' Brown gets the sack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandyellowallover Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 playoff is 4th vs 3rd, with winner playing 2nd, then the winner plays 11th home and away for each round So 3rd and 4th placed teams could end up playing 6 games over a couple of weeks Who's reporting that? Not seen any mention of the make up, just assumed it'd be the same as the rest of the leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 playoff is 4th vs 3rd, with winner playing 2nd, then the winner plays 11th home and away for each round So 3rd and 4th placed teams could end up playing 6 games over a couple of weeks Can I ask where you read this? I haven't been able to find anything on the specifics of the play-off proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 sounds great.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagsman411971 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Can I ask where you read this? I haven't been able to find anything on the specifics of the play-off proposal. I watched Doncaster explain it this afternoon in an interview that was on Sky Sports News. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 Can anybody explain why Dundee were at that meeting and also part of the SFL1 clubs threatening to resign? At what point do Thistle become a member of the SPL ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandyellowallover Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 I watched Doncaster explain it this afternoon in an interview that was on Sky Sports News. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 I watched Doncaster explain it this afternoon in an interview that was on Sky Sports News. That must've been difficult. I try to listen to that clown but somehow I feel deciphering the words coming out his mouth is more suited to Bletchley Park or GCHQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgow Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 I wholeheartedly welcome this proposal as it manages to deal with all the big ticket items in one fell swoop (one league body, better redistribution of wealth to the non-SPL full-time teams and increased chance of promotion). The main concern now is it needs to get through all the votes. The SPL have still to formally vote on it, while the SFL have still not even commented on it. Hopefully they can get this nailed in May so we do not have a second summer of uncertainty of league formations etc, It is also very welcome that the 8-8-8 split has been dropped as its only merit was that it was different, an appeal that would quickly wear off. I for one would have to think twice about the value in purchasing a Thistle season ticket now for a 22 game sprint that is highly unlikely to see Thistle make the top 8 cut off and so would count for nothing. That would mean that the last 14 games would be back to First Division football again, but at SPL prices. However, this proposal must be looked at as a stepping stone to something better. In particular, the whole concept of play-offs needs to be improved. In the short-term, the re-introduction of an SPL play-off is to be welcomed as it theoretically makes it easier to get promoted back out of the First Division. Even though that probably plays against our "self-interest" for this season, I am sure we can all see the greater good. Right now, the proposal for a 3 stage play-off next season is actually a bit embarrassing in its ham fisted attempt to favour the SPL club, but it is better than nothing (for now!). However, the final end goal must be two automatic promotion places, and then you can add play-offs in on top of that. To me, play-offs work best between clubs in the same (large) league as they are used in the Football League. Using play-offs between leagues is a bit of a con as the lower league clubs tend not to do as well ;-) The other issue is the voting structure. Little is being said about that and I speculate that essentially the SPL cartel / veto will remain in place. While the original 12-12-18 leagues proposal was in its death throes, St Mirren were offered the concession of only a 9-3 majority being required for any future votes on the league format, although 11-1 would remain for "important matters" such as the number of televised home games. At the time, I took that to mean that the old-SPL would continue to have its veto in that new single body and see no reason to suspect that won't be the case in this latest one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 The 2 negative thigs people have picked up on... Play-off format - the SFL finsihes before the SPL so 11th in the SPL isn't getting an extended break, they are still playing SPL fixtures and more than likely scrapping for their lives to avoid finishing 11th, they don't have a rest and it doesn't favour them. The only team getting a rest is 2nd in SFL1 while they wait on the outcome of 3rd vs 4th. What I do hope is that the final game is a one off at a neutral venue, that would get a big crowd and a big TV audience and would be genuinely exciting. The English play offs at Wembley are brilliant. Voting Structure - nothing has been mentioned of 11-1. Either it goes under the new league body or they weight votes the higher up you are, or they keep it in the short term but under 1 governing body which gives a better change of evolving change than we currently have, either way it is positive progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 For those suggesting that there should be two promotion spots plus a playoff in the future, don't you think that three potential teams being replaced in a twelve team league is a bit much? Third bottom is likely to beat the third placed team anyway though I suppose. I'd much rather see the proposed format to change to automatic relegation for the eleventh placed team, but second, third and fourth play off as proposed with the second vs 'winner of 3v4' as a one off match in a neutral venue like uberteeb says. I'm sure many would agree that seeing the 11th placed team win a playoff would be a little bit of an anticlimax, whereas a final involving two non-SPL teams would be much more interesting for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 For those suggesting that there should be two promotion spots plus a playoff in the future, don't you think that three potential teams being replaced in a twelve team league is a bit much? Third bottom is likely to beat the third placed team anyway though I suppose. Well, three teams change each season in the EPL, out of a league of 20. So in a league of only 12 the proportion would be larger, but I think that would be a good thing. Much more interesting having greater change each season, and there would be a better chance for smaller clubs to get up into the top division, instead of the usual suspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 I watched Doncaster explain it this afternoon in an interview that was on Sky Sports News. Thank you for suffering on our behalf. I can't listen to the guy and keep the telly or radio safe. It doesn't surprise me one bit, but I'm surprised that more has not been made of this obvious break with the SFL model. But then again, the compliant Scottish sporting press seems uniformly in favour of this latest death-twitch from the SPL, so probably no surprise at all..... I may be being overly cynical, but it strikes me that this proposal is not aimed at a 42-club solution, but at creating a schism within the SFL. The financial redistribution offers nothing to the clubs currently in SFL2 and 3 yet opens a trap-door for clubs at that level. Not exactly attractive, is it? At the other end, the play-off system is weighted towards the SPL club (i.e. as close to the status quo as possible), but they know the majority of SFL1 clubs are staring into the abyss, many having pissed money away on seating to get into the SPL and which is mainly well above their requirements in SFL1. As a result, SFL1 chairmen are bending over backwards to accommodate any solution which gives them more money regardless of the details. Witness Turnbull Hutton practically begging for this plan to be given assent by the SFL clubs while admitting that he doesn't have ANY details. A sorry sight. Also, people seem to be fantasising about a unified League offering an easier route to further modification. The SPL clubs have no intention of sharing decision-making or power with the clubs currently in the SFL. If they did, why was an 11-1 voting system a bone of contention when the SPL failed to pass the original plan? What does an 11-1 voting structure have to do with a 42-club League?It will be a League where only 12 (actually 2) clubs have any power in the voting system. If the plan proves unpalatable to 8 SFL clubs, it will fall. The basics as outlined in the SPL press statement (and apparently fleshed out by Donkey in relation to the play-off) seem to me designed to ensure this. If that happens, the SPL and the SFL1 lackeys will then fall into line with that old SPL plan: SPL2. And what price poor wee Rangers being invited to join up rather than hang about with Stenny and East FIfe? The SPL has been a toxic mess since it's inception and even with it's utter failure exposed, the people who have generated the mess continue to see themselves as the smartest guys in the room.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagsman411971 Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 The 2 negative thigs people have picked up on... Play-off format - the SFL finsihes before the SPL so 11th in the SPL isn't getting an extended break, they are still playing SPL fixtures and more than likely scrapping for their lives to avoid finishing 11th, they don't have a rest and it doesn't favour them. The only team getting a rest is 2nd in SFL1 while they wait on the outcome of 3rd vs 4th. What I do hope is that the final game is a one off at a neutral venue, that would get a big crowd and a big TV audience and would be genuinely exciting. The English play offs at Wembley are brilliant. Voting Structure - nothing has been mentioned of 11-1. Either it goes under the new league body or they weight votes the higher up you are, or they keep it in the short term but under 1 governing body which gives a better change of evolving change than we currently have, either way it is positive progress. It is definitely a two-legged tie. When explaining the play-off system, Doncaster commented that it, the play-off's, would create 6 more matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 Thank you for suffering on our behalf. I can't listen to the guy and keep the telly or radio safe. It doesn't surprise me one bit, but I'm surprised that more has not been made of this obvious break with the SFL model. But then again, the compliant Scottish sporting press seems uniformly in favour of this latest death-twitch from the SPL, so probably no surprise at all..... I may be being overly cynical, but it strikes me that this proposal is not aimed at a 42-club solution, but at creating a schism within the SFL. The financial redistribution offers nothing to the clubs currently in SFL2 and 3 yet opens a trap-door for clubs at that level. Not exactly attractive, is it? At the other end, the play-off system is weighted towards the SPL club (i.e. as close to the status quo as possible), but they know the majority of SFL1 clubs are staring into the abyss, many having pissed money away on seating to get into the SPL and which is mainly well above their requirements in SFL1. As a result, SFL1 chairmen are bending over backwards to accommodate any solution which gives them more money regardless of the details. Witness Turnbull Hutton practically begging for this plan to be given assent by the SFL clubs while admitting that he doesn't have ANY details. A sorry sight. Also, people seem to be fantasising about a unified League offering an easier route to further modification. The SPL clubs have no intention of sharing decision-making or power with the clubs currently in the SFL. If they did, why was an 11-1 voting system a bone of contention when the SPL failed to pass the original plan? What does an 11-1 voting structure have to do with a 42-club League?It will be a League where only 12 (actually 2) clubs have any power in the voting system. If the plan proves unpalatable to 8 SFL clubs, it will fall. The basics as outlined in the SPL press statement (and apparently fleshed out by Donkey in relation to the play-off) seem to me designed to ensure this. If that happens, the SPL and the SFL1 lackeys will then fall into line with that old SPL plan: SPL2. And what price poor wee Rangers being invited to join up rather than hang about with Stenny and East FIfe? The SPL has been a toxic mess since it's inception and even with it's utter failure exposed, the people who have generated the mess continue to see themselves as the smartest guys in the room.... Excellent overview....... apart from the errant "it's" (twice) in the final sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 Excellent overview....... apart from the errant "it's" (twice) in the final sentence. Thank you. I will not make the same mistake a third time. Unless I'm running out of steam at the end of a long rant...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.