Norgethistle Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Yes - There has been consistant use of Flares by elements of the Celtic Away support - that means we have a higher Fire risk if set off in a Wooden Stand, So back to standard HS&E risk assessment - remove the risk "The Celtic Away Support" what is to stop them launching the flares from the North Stand to the main stand with our fans in it?? We still seem to be moving the risk about not removing it. If a criminal holds up banks in Glasgow we remove him from society, we don't move to close the banks, as he'll only rob post offices Edited June 17, 2013 by Norgethistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krudd Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Reads like we've been bullied by the police and the council. Gutted for the 12th man. Did Beattie consider banning them from this match entirely? What are next steps from OneThistle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coljag Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I for one would back the club to the hilt If they could make a stand and politely tell Celtic that due to h&s conserns about their fans, for their own safety they are not allowed to sell tickets for the away fans for this match. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sorry we are still getting the wrong message from the Club that our hands are tied. The North Stand should be totally closed for that particular game with a sea of our Flags over the seats. Celtic should then get only that other part of the stadium that is being allocated to them. If thats only 1000 seats in the JH then so be it. Nobody has to be moved and safety is observed. The publicity it will generate will be bigger than the game and will fill the North Stand with our supporters for every other league game. Yes there will be a financial loss but aren,t the club now about "moral stands" As I have suggested earlier. The North Stand should therefore be closed for this game with Celtic fans being allocated only a small area in the JHS. The behaviour of a minority of Celtic supporters should affect their supports so that there club and supporters take future action. With the North Stand closed there wil be easy segregation of fans before and after the game and safety concerns regarding flares will be nullified. The loss of revenue will be balanced later by the goodwill that will fill the North Stand for the rest of the season and that is nothing to pubilicity that the club will recieve for such a bold stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Is £30,000 worth losing for closing the North Stand in protest for the Celtic game, sadly there does come a point where it is self defeating. But it really is a disgrace that we are being moved because a group the police don't want to upset cannot be controlled. If the police can't control a few thousand Celtic fans it is worrying. If they don't want to control them it is depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 As I have suggested earlier. The North Stand should therefore be closed for this game with Celtic fans being allocated only a small area in the JHS. The behaviour of a minority of Celtic supporters should affect their supports so that there club and supporters take future action. With the North Stand closed there wil be easy segregation of fans before and after the game and safety concerns regarding flares will be nullified. The loss of revenue will be balanced later by the goodwill that will fill the North Stand for the rest of the season and that is nothing to pubilicity that the club will recieve for such a bold stand. I see your point TC but I feel we are past that point now. I would back the club in banning them entirely. I may be alone in this and realise it could be seen as a bit counter productive but I think this is now the best option. Wonder if an outright ban would be popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Yes - There has been consistant use of Flares by elements of the Celtic Away support - that means we have a higher Fire risk if set off in a Wooden Stand, It's nothing to do with Thistle really, but I find it scandalous that the Police would effectively say that if they are going to let of flares on a packed area, they would be happier if it were in the North Stand. I'm really angry about this and would encourage people to write to Councillors/MSPs, BBC sport via twitter etc. - anything to show our disgust at this. It's awful that onethistle can put such effort into improving the Matchday experience for everyone, only for this to be cast aside, because elements of an away support choose to behave illegally in a football stadium. It's just so wrong. We can't even say it'll just be for one game. I'm sure I saw that a newspaper had them on the front cover after the cup final, but as I wasn't interested at the time I didn't read the article. Anybody know where I would address a request to the police under freedom of information? I'd like to know how many arrests they've made due the 'consistent use of flares' by elements of the Celtic support. Might also write to Lawell for a response. I would encourage people not to go on an anti-Celtic tirade though and instead focus on the fact that we are being moved in order to accommodate likely illegal activity in a part of our stadium. For me that's what it boils down to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 There must be a fair few Celtic fans embarrassed that they cannot as a group be trusted at away grounds. Don't they protest about being criminalised unfairly? Worralaff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 There must be a fair few Celtic fans embarrassed that they cannot as a group be trusted at away grounds. Don't they protest about being criminalised unfairly? Worralaff. I can't see them being embarrassed, more likely to be proud of the disruption they are causing and the attention they are receiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I like facts. So Celtic fans have legally been banned from the Firhill main stand. We can't get around that. What would the consequences be if we simply house 3,000 Celtic fans in the North end of the JHS, disregarding police "recommendation". The "fear of prosecution" would be reduced to minor scuffles outside. Hardly much of a fear. Why do we not simply go ahead with that? Hopefully Jim can catch this one before bedtime (sorry pal!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sounds to me the club's hands are tied. Maybe if we had a bigger home support we would be able to restrict the number of tickets we have to give to Celtic but we are not in that position. Respect to JJ for coming on here and communicating with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 If the key to all this is 'natural segregation' and the police don't want Thistle and Celtic fans clashing after the game, why not just give them part of the JHS but then keep them in for 15 minutes after the full time whistle? Also, keeping the fans apart they way they did for the Glasgow Cup Final worked wonders and is clearly a proven method to avoid trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) I like facts. So Celtic fans have legally been banned from the Firhill main stand. We can't get around that. What would the consequences be if we simply house 3,000 Celtic fans in the North end of the JHS, disregarding police "recommendation". The "fear of prosecution" would be reduced to minor scuffles outside. Hardly much of a fear. Why do we not simply go ahead with that? Hopefully Jim can catch this one before bedtime (sorry pal!) Segragation forms part of the Safety certificate it can be removed if its deemed not to be adequate - sorry If im sounding negative Im not- just trying to explain the process so people have as much info as possible Edited June 17, 2013 by Jordanhill Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 If the key to all this is 'natural segregation' and the police don't want Thistle and Celtic fans clashing after the game, why not just give them part of the JHS but then keep them in for 15 minutes after the full time whistle? Also, keeping the fans apart they way they did for the Glasgow Cup Final worked wonders and is clearly a proven method to avoid trouble. In essence they want fans mixing as little as possible - there were large barriers in the Carpark at the Old Firm game to seperate fans - same inside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 So much over reaction on this thread in my opinion. It's unfortunate that we have to give up the north stand because the Celtic fans can't be trusted to behave decently. But it's hardly news that OF fans can't be trusted. And I don't think the club have acted poorly, when you hear the full story. And, to be honest, I wouldn't want to ban Celtic fans from Firhill, because regardless of how scummy they are, these big games are part of what it's all about. So I think we should all move on, with club, team and fans united. If I was a Celtic fan I'd be hugely embarrassed, so I do think this should be publicised as far as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sorry, I don't quite understand that. Are you saying if we ignore police recommendations on segregation then our Safety Certificate for hosting a football match will be taken away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) In essence they want fans mixing as little as possible - there were large barriers in the Carpark at the Old Firm game to seperate fans - same inside The next weekend there a "proper" "Old Firm" derby in Glasgow, will be a good weekend to get out of the city entirely, whilst the whole place burns to the ground, which seems likely to happen given all this ... ... and can you imagine what the media will be like beforehand? Chic Young will have a heart attack in anticipation ... Edited June 17, 2013 by peagreenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sorry, I don't quite understand that. Are you saying if we ignore police recommendations on segregation then our Safety Certificate for hosting a football match will be taken away? The police can recommend to the Council to take it away, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 And, to be honest, I wouldn't want to ban Celtic fans from Firhill, because regardless of how scummy they are, these big games are part of what it's all about. Personally I couldn't care less about playing Celtic, or Rangers, these days. We've gone plenty of years without playing them and I'd much rather beat Dundee United next year. I'm not sitting in excited anticipation of having to listen to IRA songs or the Fields of Athenry or whatever the hell they now sing and look at Irish Tricolours and their sour-faced greeting twit of a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 The police can recommend to the Council to take it away, I believe. Not quite - the safety team Police Fire Ambulance and Council Safety Officer make recommendations - we in turn decide if we abide by them - the Council Safety Licence team takes account of the recommendations and if we have followed them - its highly unusual to get a Safety Certificate ignoring Safety Team recommendations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Ah, now I'm getting some understanding. After about a million words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 So police make segregation "recommendations". If you ignore them your safety certificate is almost certain to be denied, It seems essentially they're orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Neanderthal Thuggery 1 . . . Football 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb1876 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Reads like we've been bullied by the police and the council. Gutted for the 12th man. Did Beattie consider banning them from this match entirely? What are next steps from OneThistle? Merely Celtic using their 12th and 13th men to get their own way it looks like, we are bound by a requirement to heed advice, guidance and recommendations on safety and security (board quite rightly protecting themselves) however I'm sure I read earlier in this thread that Celtic fans are housed in wooden stands at other grounds? If this is the case why would Thistle be singled out and not permitted to allow them to use this type of stand at our patch? This might be wrong and they are actually not allowed in other wooden stands although the whole issue does look like the Police and GCC coming up with "guidance" to make their lives easier without having to actually do anything about the root cause of the potential problem(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Personally I couldn't care less about playing Celtic, or Rangers, these days. We've gone plenty of years without playing them and I'd much rather beat Dundee United next year. I'm not sitting in excited anticipation of having to listen to IRA songs or the Fields of Athenry or whatever the hell they now sing and look at Irish Tricolours and their sour-faced greeting twit of a manager. Disagree, though I do understand the sentiment. But disliking the OF is part of me. I want to seeThistle taking them on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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