Jaggernaut Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Great topics! Dools and Craigen to take us to 6,000 on Saturday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Sorry to make you work, Jukebox Rebel, but following the Asmir Begovic goal for Stoke, I wondered if any goalkeeper has scored for or against Thistle in open play while in position as goalkeeper. I believe that Tommy Ledgerwood once scored while injured and stuck out on the wing for safety and nuisance value. The Peterhead goalkeeper scored against Kenny Arthur in the penalty shoot out in the Play Off Final for promotion to the First Division. However, I cannot recall a goalkeeper scoring from his normal position in regular play. I presume that there have been lots of own goals by goalkeepers both for and against Thistle. The video playing in the bus on the way to Aberdeen reminded me of two in the aforementioned promotion season, Colin Stewart fumbling the ball over the line against Stirling Albion at Firhill, and the Raith Rovers goalie kindly finishing the job when Jukka Santala' s creeping shot ran along the line at Stark's Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Scott Fox punched a corner into his own net v Hamilton at Firhill two seasons ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Scott Fox punched a corner into his own net v Hamilton at Firhill two seasons ago. Sure it was Fox? Didn't the goalie who helped us out for a handful of games (Smith?) do something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Sure it was Fox? Didn't the goalie who helped us out for a handful of games (Smith?) do something like that? That was at Hamilton last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 partickthedog, Tommy Ledgerwood’s story is a classic – his inspirational goal galvanized the entire eleven - 4 goals in 10 crazy minutes. According to Robert Reid he never tired of telling the tale for years afterwards. Quite right Tommy! I’ve looked at my full goalscorers list and there are no instances of our goalie having scored in regular play. This settles half of your question for the 92% of the Thistle goals that have named scorers assigned. Never say never though – many of the team line ups and an even greater number of goalscorers (especially 19th century) are yet unknown and, indeed, even “new” friendly matches are still occasionally being uncovered. Just last month Stu was able to reveal the identity of the first Thistle goalscorer at Firhill via local press reports from Dumbarton. So who knows what secrets historians may yet unveil? As for opposing goalies, well, I don’t record opposing goalscorers so I’m in no position to answer, certainly no personal recollections since the mid 1970s. I could add that I’ve had my head in hundreds of press reports and if I discovered a fact like that I would definitely pull it out - as yet I haven’t. All of this did remind me about some curious Jaggy trivia though, what about… The Thistle goalie who scored a Second Half Cup Final hat trick Andrew Duff was right there at the formation of the club and was always prominent in the match reports, spanning over 10 years with the club. As well as keeping goal he became match secretary for season 1880-81 and vice president in 1881-82. In December 1881, he became the first Thistle player to gain representative recognition of sorts when he was selected to play in SFA trials for the forthcoming matches against Sheffield and Lancashire counties. Although his trial didn’t result in selection for those actual matches, he did later represent us in Glasgow FA select games. His goalkeeping was singled out for praise in the SFA Annual of 1882 and press reports from the mid 1880s were also calling for his international selection. He could play outfield too and scored several goals when he occasionally ventured out as a forward player… In all, our “famous goalkeeper” has several reported goals to his credit... 09.02.1878 – FR - Camphill [h] W3-0 (Tony Brown, Bowie, Duff) There are no other known Duff’s from the period so this is possibly our Andrew’s first reported goal. 29.01.1882 - YC - Brittania [h] W10-0 [John Young (3), P. Ewing (2), John Inglis (2), J. Shankland, Sinclair, Andrew Duff] As holders of the Yoker Challenge Cup Thistle were invited back, and in the first round took on Brittania at home. After the ordeals and pressures of the Scottish Cup this tie must have seemed easy, Thistle ahead 5-0 at half-time and 10-0 at the end. Goals were scored by John Young (3), Ewing (2), Inglis (2), Shankland, Sinclair and Andrew Duff, taking a break from playing in goals. ~ Niall Kennedy, ptearlyyears.net 11.03.1882 - YC - Yoker [a] W5-0 [Andrew Duff (3), Thomas Paterson, Sinclair] On the same day that Scotland v England at Hampden was setting a new Scottish attendance record (10,000), Thistle were at Holm Park, winning The Yoker Cup for a second time. Our third trophy was won in some unusual circumstance. John (aka Jack) Beattie (who was most commonly half back) kept a clean sheet whilst Andrew Duff (who was normally our goalie) bags a second half hat trick! Welcome to the fantastical world of the free spirited amateurs! 18.03.1882 – FR - Vale of Beith [h] W5-1 [John Young (3), Andrew Duff, o.g.] Just to prove that his previous weekend’s Cup Final heroics were no fluke, the bold Andrew netted again in this friendly at Jordanvale. 31.01.1885 - FR - Kilmarnock Athletic [h] W5-0 [Andrew Duff, James Miller, Willie Paul (2), Jerry Suter] Press reports for this friendly at Muir Park talk of “Andrew Duff, the famous goalkeeper, playing at centre forward”. The Herald reports that “shortly after kick off, Duff, who was playing at centre forward, sent the leather between the posts and secured a goal for his side”. This game is especially notable for the fact that our new recruit from Partick Elm, one Willie Paul, scores his first ever goals for Thistle. Note the plural. The tone was set. Our second most prolific goalscorer had arrived. Reading between the stats lines it would seem that Willie’s arrival signalled the end of Andrew Duff’s centre forward cameo role! One final note on this most extra-ordinary Thistle player. It concerns the historic FA Cup victory at Cliftonville (4th December 1886) that I singled out on a previous thread. I’ve never seen a game so confusingly split as to the final score. Did we win 11-0 or 11-1? Seems that it’s all down to Andrew’s antics. Glasgow Herald reports 11-1: "At the end of the game the score stood - Partick Thistle, 11 goals ; Cliftonville, 1. The visitors won the toss and kicked off, and during almost the entire game play was confined to the Cliftonville half, the goalkeeper's shop being somewhat of a warm one. At half time Partick had notched 3 goals. Cliftonville never got a chance of scoring till close upon the calling of time, when Duff, the visitor's custodian, being tired of doing nothing, left his charge. Baxter, for the home team, seized the chance and shot the ball through, the game ending as above.” LOL! What transpired? I have visions of the restless Andrew going for a lung busting glory run and getting caught out. Who knows? Many publications and websites, no doubt feeding from the English FA (who still list 11-0), have this game as having finished to nil. Maybe the reported goal was disallowed for some reason? I have sent an e-mail to the FA to see if I can shed any further light on the matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagscast Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 We presently sit with 5,998 in the League goals for column. If it happens on Saturday then an old tradition will be upheld - all five previous 1,000 goal milestones were achieved at Firhill. What are you using as your source for that? I've used the official PTFC history book and still get 5.989 as my total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Jagscast, In my quest for accuracy I inputted databases from Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation, statto.com, londonhearts.com, ptearlyyears.net, ptfc.co.uk, fitbastats.com and The Official Thistle History Book (2002). All anomalies were settled via Glasgow Herald, Evening Times, Scotsman, Sunday Post, Sunday Mail, Daily Record and even some e-mail correspondence with Scottish football historian David Ross. Final checks were done on every season via cross reference with double press reported end of season League tables. It's a nuts and bolts job as far I'm concerned. Only a far fetched and extravagant anomaly could thwart the accuracy of my end results - all of my original sources would need to be unanimously wrong. Incidentally, of the original sources, only ptearlyyears.net (1893 to 1903) and ptfc.co.uk (2008 to date) were 100% accurate with their League results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagscast Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Jagscast, In my quest for accuracy I inputted databases from Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation, statto.com, londonhearts.com, ptearlyyears.net, ptfc.co.uk, fitbastats.com and The Official Thistle History Book (2002). All anomalies were settled via Glasgow Herald, Evening Times, Scotsman, Sunday Post, Sunday Mail, Daily Record and even some e-mail correspondence with Scottish football historian David Ross. Final checks were done on every season via cross reference with double press reported end of season League tables. It's a nuts and bolts job as far I'm concerned. Only a far fetched and extravagant anomaly could thwart the accuracy of my end results - all of my original sources would need to be unanimously wrong. Incidentally, of the original sources, only ptearlyyears.net (1893 to 1903) and ptfc.co.uk (2008 to date) were 100% accurate with their League results. Ooft, that's incredibly thorough. Well done. Was just curious as I did a quick search myself through the history book(which I am aware has errors) and just wanted to see what sources you used! Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 I'm sure the 150th Anniversary reprint will be sorted. And, by the way, surely a new Jagscast report is long overdue on this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Extraordinary work, JR. Always an enjoyable read too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) partickthedog, Tommy Ledgerwood’s story is a classic – his inspirational goal galvanized the entire eleven - 4 goals in 10 crazy minutes. According to Robert Reid he never tired of telling the tale for years afterwards. Quite right Tommy! I’ve looked at my full goalscorers list and there are no instances of our goalie having scored in regular play. This settles half of your question for the 92% of the Thistle goals that have named scorers assigned. Never say never though – many of the team line ups and an even greater number of goalscorers (especially 19th century) are yet unknown and, indeed, even “new” friendly matches are still occasionally being uncovered. Just last month Stu was able to reveal the identity of the first Thistle goalscorer at Firhill via local press reports from Dumbarton. So who knows what secrets historians may yet unveil? As for opposing goalies, well, I don’t record opposing goalscorers so I’m in no position to answer, certainly no personal recollections since the mid 1970s. I could add that I’ve had my head in hundreds of press reports and if I discovered a fact like that I would definitely pull it out - as yet I haven’t. All of this did remind me about some curious Jaggy trivia though, what about… The Thistle goalie who scored a Second Half Cup Final hat trick Andrew Duff was right there at the formation of the club and was always prominent in the match reports, spanning over 10 years with the club. As well as keeping goal he became match secretary for season 1880-81 and vice president in 1881-82. In December 1881, he became the first Thistle player to gain representative recognition of sorts when he was selected to play in SFA trials for the forthcoming matches against Sheffield and Lancashire counties. Although his trial didn’t result in selection for those actual matches, he did later represent us in Glasgow FA select games. His goalkeeping was singled out for praise in the SFA Annual of 1882 and press reports from the mid 1880s were also calling for his international selection. He could play outfield too and scored several goals when he occasionally ventured out as a forward player… In all, our “famous goalkeeper” has several reported goals to his credit... 09.02.1878 – FR - Camphill [h] W3-0 (Tony Brown, Bowie, Duff) There are no other known Duff’s from the period so this is possibly our Andrew’s first reported goal. 29.01.1882 - YC - Brittania [h] W10-0 [John Young (3), P. Ewing (2), John Inglis (2), J. Shankland, Sinclair, Andrew Duff] As holders of the Yoker Challenge Cup Thistle were invited back, and in the first round took on Brittania at home. After the ordeals and pressures of the Scottish Cup this tie must have seemed easy, Thistle ahead 5-0 at half-time and 10-0 at the end. Goals were scored by John Young (3), Ewing (2), Inglis (2), Shankland, Sinclair and Andrew Duff, taking a break from playing in goals. ~ Niall Kennedy, ptearlyyears.net 11.03.1882 - YC - Yoker [a] W5-0 [Andrew Duff (3), Thomas Paterson, Sinclair] On the same day that Scotland v England at Hampden was setting a new Scottish attendance record (10,000), Thistle were at Holm Park, winning The Yoker Cup for a second time. Our third trophy was won in some unusual circumstance. John (aka Jack) Beattie (who was most commonly half back) kept a clean sheet whilst Andrew Duff (who was normally our goalie) bags a second half hat trick! Welcome to the fantastical world of the free spirited amateurs! 18.03.1882 – FR - Vale of Beith [h] W5-1 [John Young (3), Andrew Duff, o.g.] Just to prove that his previous weekend’s Cup Final heroics were no fluke, the bold Andrew netted again in this friendly at Jordanvale. 31.01.1885 - FR - Kilmarnock Athletic [h] W5-0 [Andrew Duff, James Miller, Willie Paul (2), Jerry Suter] Press reports for this friendly at Muir Park talk of “Andrew Duff, the famous goalkeeper, playing at centre forward”. The Herald reports that “shortly after kick off, Duff, who was playing at centre forward, sent the leather between the posts and secured a goal for his side”. This game is especially notable for the fact that our new recruit from Partick Elm, one Willie Paul, scores his first ever goals for Thistle. Note the plural. The tone was set. Our second most prolific goalscorer had arrived. Reading between the stats lines it would seem that Willie’s arrival signalled the end of Andrew Duff’s centre forward cameo role! One final note on this most extra-ordinary Thistle player. It concerns the historic FA Cup victory at Cliftonville (4th December 1886) that I singled out on a previous thread. I’ve never seen a game so confusingly split as to the final score. Did we win 11-0 or 11-1? Seems that it’s all down to Andrew’s antics. Glasgow Herald reports 11-1: "At the end of the game the score stood - Partick Thistle, 11 goals ; Cliftonville, 1. The visitors won the toss and kicked off, and during almost the entire game play was confined to the Cliftonville half, the goalkeeper's shop being somewhat of a warm one. At half time Partick had notched 3 goals. Cliftonville never got a chance of scoring till close upon the calling of time, when Duff, the visitor's custodian, being tired of doing nothing, left his charge. Baxter, for the home team, seized the chance and shot the ball through, the game ending as above.” LOL! What transpired? I have visions of the restless Andrew going for a lung busting glory run and getting caught out. Who knows? Many publications and websites, no doubt feeding from the English FA (who still list 11-0), have this game as having finished to nil. Maybe the reported goal was disallowed for some reason? I have sent an e-mail to the FA to see if I can shed any further light on the matter... Much appreciated,Jukebox Rebel. The year under Ian McCall we finished second to St Johnstone, I had this recurring dream that we would take it to the last game away at Dens Park and would clinch promotion through a last second volley at a corner from Jonny Tuffey. Sadly it never came to pass. Edited November 8, 2013 by partickthedog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 , I wondered if any goalkeeper has scored for Thistle in open play while in position as goalkeeper. This is something that Scott Fox really has to add to his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivad Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 We are currently on our 5th all-time longest winless home League run... Home League games without a win (and how the run was broken) 14 games 05.12.1908 to 11.12.1909 (25.12.1909 Hibernian [h] 3-1) 12 games 06.01.1996 to 14.09.1996 (28.09.1996 Clydebank [h] 1-0) 11 games 23.04.1988 to 03.12.1988 (17.12.1988 Queen of the South [h] 2-1) 9 games 06.10.1979 to 09.04.1980 (13.04.1980 Dundee [h] 3-0) 8 games 16.04.2013 to date notes: Next in line are 9 different runs of 7 games. Note that our worst run was broken on Christmas Day! The game on 25th December 1909 also stands as our first ever League win at Firhill. What about the season when Gerry Collins was manager? Thistle didn't win a league match until after Collins was sacked in December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 Pretty sure that Andrew Duff would be a bit of a living legend if he was playing for us these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Nicky Walker almost scored on his debut against Hibs with a clearance, but Issac English nipped in to nudge the ball over the line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 ^ Good memory. Would it have went in do you think? See Zak was at Firhill on Saturday with his boy bedecked in the red n yella. Pleasing. The year under Ian McCall we finished second to St Johnstone, I had this recurring dream that we would take it to the last game away at Dens Park and would clinch promotion through a last second volley at a corner from Jonny Tuffey. Sadly it never came to pass. Couldn’t help take a casual wee glance at that table and I burst out laughing at our goal difference (I'm a bit strange that way), just +1 for a second place finish. Of course, me being me I had to check – is that a record? Turns out it’s a record for the second tier. Unbelievably, Motherwell trump it for a Scottish League record – in 1994-95 they finished 2nd in the SFL Premier Division with a 0 GD. Qualified for Europe with it too... What about the season when Gerry Collins was manager? Thistle didn't win a league match until after Collins was sacked in December. Yes, this streak is certainly on the radar. We went seven games without a home League win from May 2003 to November 2003. This spanned one game under Lambie (his Firhill swansong) and then six under Collins. Gerry Britton and Derek Whyte broke the run at the first time of asking on Sunday 7th December 2003 with a 1-0 win at home to Motherwell. The run sits at joint 6th in that wee table along with several other seven game runs from over the decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Jaggy quotes # 37 Following our big derby win in November 1882… “The Thistle is c ock of the walk in Partick at present, having leathered the Partick by 3 to 1.” ~ The Scottish Athletic Journal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Jaggy factoid # 722 “Wan team in Pertyck!” When our great rivals Partick FC became defunct in 1884-85, Thistle moved quickly and announced that they would directly move to Partick’s ground at Inchview, as they would now be expecting bigger crowds. Our Great Great Grandads were ruthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Jaggy trivia # 454 It's highly probable that Forfar 5 East Fife 4 twisted a few tongues when it occurred back in 1964. In a twist of fate which positively scoffed at the laws of probability, Thistle played East Fife five and Forfar four times in 1986-87. We would have followed it by playing East Fife four and Forfar five times the following season were it not for John McNaught’s late Scottish Cup equalizer at Station Park forcing an additional replay match. By the way, I checked the validity of an old Aberdeenshire myth concerning a game between Echt and Fyvie. The scoreline Echt five, Fyvie echt just didnae happen. Gutted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Jaggy factoid # 727 Saturday 28th September 1895 - Partick Thistle 15 Cameronians 0. Thistle’s annihilation of the army side stands as a record score for the Glasgow Cup competition as a whole. OTIG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Jaggy factoid # 875 Last season's "full points sweep" against Cowdenbeath was our first since we bossed Dumbarton in 2005-06. Ross County and Inverness CT are the only remaining contenders on this season's hit list. Should Ross Draper continue to take corners solely by the raising of his eyebrows then I reckon we have a fairly good chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Jaggy trivia # 148 Thistle’s first penalty was awarded at Inchview during a Glasgow Cup 1st Round replay on Saturday 3rd October 1891 vs. Cathcart. John Cameron missed it! Despite this, Thistle won comfortably 5-0. “Just as well for you m’lad” said a prominent committee member. Probably. Historian David Ross notes: "Interesting to note the differences between the penalty kick as we know it and as now the lawmakers originally intended: a team had to APPEAL for a penalty a la 'howzat,' the offence had to be within TWELVE yards of the goal, the kick could be taken from ANY point twelve yards from goal and the keeper could advance to within SIX yards of the spot where the kick would be taken." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jukebox Rebel Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Jaggy factoid # 2143 Dick Campbell's Jags (sorry yoda) won promotion in season 2005-06 and in the process we broke a new Scottish League record - the lowest ever goal difference for a promoted side, just +1. Fortunately, we lost this unwanted accolade when Dumbarton came up from the 2nd Division in 2011-12 with a goal difference of 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 RE: Zak snaffling Nicky's debut glory Not sure JR, but I guess Lambie would have had a fit if English left it and it didn't end up the net. I was personally disappointed as like yourself I like a statistical anomoly Keep up the good work JR Any chance of some Roughy facts when you get a chance? Great to see the big man acknowleged for his service to our sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.