The Centenary Fund..part 2

[topcat]

There was quite a discussion on a previous thread regarding how the draw was working or not.

 

My personal experience is that on the few occassions were I have had a win I always recieved or was notified of my prize promptly. This was the case were I have just won £100 in the latest August draw.

 

The letter accompanying my prize seems to be also reacting to some of the criticisms leveled in that thread.

 

There are around 600 members still contributing £50000 annually directly to the player budget.

 

Winners of Matchday hospitality, signed strips or balls should contact Kirtsy McKee at [email protected] to arrange to collect prizes.

 

So I would say give the Club a wee chance again before you considering pulling out.

[Norgethistle]

Well the first thing you need to do to fix a problem is accept there is one, and going by what you state that seems the case.

There are 3 things (Only 3) that the draw needs to do to be a proper success and have the fans backing.

1. Draw on time
   
2. Pay out prizes promptly
   
3. Operate at a profit
   

If the club can endeavor to do items 1 & 2, the fans will ensure item 3, hopefully this months Draw is done by tomorrow (15th) or Monday at latest to start a good trend, would be good to see it run like clockwork on a monthly basis

[Fearchar]

Well the first thing you need to do to fix a problem is accept there is one, and going by what you state that seems the case.

There are 3 things (Only 3) that the draw needs to do to be a proper success and have the fans backing.

1. Draw on time
   
2. Pay out prizes promptly
   
3. Operate at a profit
   

If the club can endeavor to do items 1 & 2, the fans will ensure item 3, hopefully this months Draw is done by tomorrow (15th) or Monday at latest to start a good trend, would be good to see it run like clockwork on a monthly basis

Actually, there are a few more things to be done, such as provide clear accounts showing the income and expenditure. Commission payments have been made to the Jags Trust (as was agreed when the Centenary Fund consolidated fundraising efforts), but apparently there has been no indication on what basis: so it looks as if transparency is still needed.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

In the presumption that the running of the CF will come under the remit of the new marketing manager and not come under the jurisdiction of some "mystery" director in charge of commercial activities I'm prepared to give it another few months.

 

There's absolutely no way the onus should be on the customer contacting the Club for a prize no matter how small. Checking a website, which may well be unfamiliar to some participants, to find out whether you've won shouldn't have to be routine.

[topcat]

In the presumption that the running of the CF will come under the remit of the new marketing manager and not come under the jurisdiction of some "mystery" director in charge of commercial activities I'm prepared to give it another few months.

 

There's absolutely no way the onus should be on the customer contacting the Club for a prize no matter how small. Checking a website, which may well be unfamiliar to some participants, to find out whether you've won shouldn't have to be routine.

 

I won a signed football(but never collected it) and once the coorporate hospitality x 2. On both occassions I recieved a letter from the club informing me of my win. The only onus on the prize winner is making the arrangement to recieve the prize or arranging when to use it.

Edited September 14, 2013 by topcat

[Norgethistle]

Actually, there are a few more things to be done, such as provide clear accounts showing the income and expenditure. Commission payments have been made to the Jags Trust (as was agreed when the Centenary Fund consolidated fundraising efforts), but apparently there has been no indication on what basis: so it looks as if transparency is still needed.

 

Has the JT asked for these things? and if such what was the responce

[Fawlty Towers]

Prepare the smelling salts!

 

Here are September's winners:

 

http://www.ptfccente.../september_2013

 

Congratulations to all the winners and hopefully we will see this now move forward in the professional way we all want to see.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Fawlty Towers

[Norgethistle]

Prepare the smelling salts!

 

Here are September's winners:

 

http://www.ptfccente.../september_2013

 

Congratulations to all the winners and hopefully we will see this now move forward in the professional way we all want to see.

 

Well done not only on time but a day ahead, now the standard has been set

[Fearchar]

Has the JT asked for these things? and if such what was the respone

IIRC (but don't bet on it), that was one of the tasks the JT board set itself. Of course, the fact that shares have not been issued in accordance with the same agreement may lead to the club board preferring to keep the matter as obscure as possible.

[Jaggernaut]

Prepare the smelling salts!

 

Here are September's winners:

 

http://www.ptfccente.../september_2013

 

Congratulations to all the winners and hopefully we will see this now move forward in the professional way we all want to see.

Fix! Edited September 15, 2013 by Jaggernaut

[jags365]

Has the JT asked for these things? and if such what was the responce

Yes, we have. We were able to look at the books after the first year (rather Maggie did as she was treasurer at that point).

 

For commission, Eddie Prentice had discussions with Douglas (current treasurer) and we were sent a cheque. Based on those two things we were able to work out the monthly commission and now deduct this at source - before we write the cheque to send to Firhill we take off the commission amount.

 

OBviouslly we need to see the books from the more recent years but we've not really heard anything from the club in regards to this.

[The Sunnylaw Jag]

Prepare the smelling salts!

 

Here are September's winners:

 

http://www.ptfccente.../september_2013

 

Congratulations to all the winners and hopefully we will see this now move forward in the professional way we all want to see.

Oh great now you do the draw on time I know I'm a loser already instead of building up to it. Anyhoo, roll on the next draw . . .on time.

[MerryHell]

I'm actually in it! I won a ball! All is forgiven!

[ian_mac]

Good to see the JT finally springing in to action on something.

 

Anyone from the JT like to comment on the fact that the membership numbers are in free fall?

[alx]

They owe me twenty quid from last season... even after I mentioned in the office once. One more time and I'm out.

[jags365]

Good to see the JT finally springing in to action on something.

 

Anyone from the JT like to comment on the fact that the membership numbers are in free fall?

We lost a lot of members following on from the Propco situation and it's obviously taken longer than we would have liked to try and get the Trust Board sorted again, in terms of numbers etc. Now (I feel) we have got good people on the Board, who also now have experience of a year or two in their roles. We will be looking to launch a couple of new schemes this season while also increasing communication via website, twitter, on here, emails and of course the programme page.

[Willjag]

Could you give us a quick run down of the current people on the JTB please?

[potty trained]

 

We lost a lot of members following on from the Propco situation and it's obviously taken longer than we would have liked to try and get the Trust Board sorted again, in terms of numbers etc. Now (I feel) we have got good people on the Board, who also now have experience of a year or two in their roles. We will be looking to launch a couple of new schemes this season while also increasing communication via website, twitter, on here, emails and of course the programme page.

 

That's a lot of members! 500 lost in 5 years... I'm sure it was 750 when I was membership sec.

[ian_mac]

That's a lot of members! 500 lost in 5 years... I'm sure it was 750 when I was membership sec.

 

It's as blatant a loss of trust as you are ever likely to see, and just proves what a disastrous decision was made that night when The North West crew turned up with all those proxy votes.

 

Why should the trust get a seat on the board when you represent such a small number of the fans?

 

You may be in control of those shares but in over 15 years of existence it's been proven that you don't deserve them and the current level of membership shows that the majority of fans support that view.

[Willjag]

If it's a new JTB, is it possible to give them a chance to try and turn things round or are they forever damned by the past?

[potty trained]

If it's a new JTB, is it possible to give them a chance to try and turn things round or are they forever damned by the past?

 

I just don't think Trusts in general serve the purpose they were formed to achieve. Namely working towards fan ownership.

 

I think you need to look at our present club board to see that share ownership means F-all.

 

I also don't think our trust prioritise their activity in line with the constitution and the the trusts 5(?) objectives.

 

I would also look at the time under willie Arthur, the trust was being run illegally(?) and he was ousted, it was restructured and operated efficiently, with purpose, I think it lasted 2 rounds of elections, had a great team on the board running an incredible fund raiser in the 1876 club... And with one leap of faith, it's membership decided to hand over all it's strength to the club, it was neutered that night by as Ian says a small few holding a pile of proxy votes.

 

From that night, the trust lost all power and ability to influence the club, it ever had.

 

What have we had since, a yearly POTY, a few race nights, god knows what else.

 

Do meeting minutes get posted on the website?

What are they discussing?

Who are they talking to in their wee hut in the JHS?

Who do they represent?

How do they represent them?

What have the trust achieved in line with its objectives, in the last year?

Why has the club set up a community trust, surely tht conflicts with the jags trust?

 

 

[potty trained]

Can someone find the link to what the agreement was, between the club and the trust, on handing the 1876 club over? I can't find it anywhere, but I'm sure it involved the trust reviving shares on an annual basis relative to CF income via 1876 members.

 

How many shares has the test received in the last 3 or 4 years?

[Willjag]

How many shares has the test received in the last 3 or 4 years?

I gave up asking that question years ago PT. I think the shares are worthless now in any case owing to the new share issue when Propco came in.

 

ETA, or you could ask Sandy if he still appears in the North Stand. He was all for the jump when he was a member of the JTB.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Willjag

[David Stevenson]

You may be in control of those shares but in over 15 years of existence it's been proven that you don't deserve them and the current level of membership shows that the majority of fans support that view.

 

It's a democratic supporters organisation. If you/we want to change it, it can be done. The "You" that you refer to are the Thistle supporters who have maintained their membership of the Trust. If you don’t like the fact that some people have maintained their support of the Trust, even if only by membership, tough….

Management of that shareholding is a significant role and it is a significant shareholding. Far greater than the shareholding of many who have sat on the BoD in the 15-year period you refer to, especially now I would imagine.

In fact, correct me if I am wrong, but I think I remember you recently being pretty negative about the current BoD and the input of many of them (particularly relative to that of Jim Alexander who got stiffed and dropped from the BoD a couple of seasons ago).

Do you think they are more deserving of a place on the BoD than a democratic supporters organization with responsibility for a large shareholding?

To go off on a tangent, can I ask if the Trust meeting you refer to is the one where the Trust's (then) recently-constituted fund-raising operation was subsumed into the Club's "professionally managed" Centenary Fund following Eddie Prentice request for a "leap of faith" by the Trust membership?

I wouldn't have leaped had I been there to vote as I had intended, but that's water under the bridge. I transferred my membership to the CF and lose money every month. The Trust was promised shares and commission as a result of that deal but as far as I can see have been shabbily treated by the Club, the BoD clearly dodging the transfer of shares that ought to have taken place. Why do you think that is?

Unfortunately a number of people were suckered by members of the BoD over that deal and have subsequently been repaid by being cold-shouldered by the Chairman and the Club, such that the only democratic platform for supporter involvement in how the club is overseen and run has been completely side-lined. It's ironic considering we were one of the first clubs to move in the direction of a significant collective supporter shareholding.

While things are hunky-dory on the football front and property development is still flat, no-one seems bothered. However, if things go on the slide on the pitch and/or the main stand and bing are "developed" on the basis of the horrendous planning permission that currently exists for Propco, we will be looking for a focus for our collective views. The Trust should be that focus, particularly because there is nothing else to provide it.

I think I recall someone referring to OneThistle having “the power” these days. I may be misunderstanding OneThistle, but I had the impression that it was an ad hoc amalgam of like-minded individuals who wanted to try to improve things surrounding the match-day experience at Firhill. Very laudable, and I appreciate what has been done, but I don’t see “power” in that arrangement.

It suits the BoD to have someone overseeing that and doing things for free that would otherwise take a wage or wages out of the club. Whatever it is, it isn’t a democratic organization representing fans interests. The role of OneThistle could theoretically come under the Trust’s wing, but not vice versa. And I’m not so sure some of the people involved in the North Stand shift (are/were they part of OneThistle?) are too happy about the way the Club has handled the situation vis-à-vis Celtic’s visit to Firhill in October. Rather like the way the Club have treated the Trust, from the outside looking in, it seems a bit of a one-way street.

Rather than sniping at the current Jags Trust office-bearers for historic events that many of them weren’t involved in, I think it would be better to help rebuild and rehabilitate the organization such that it can do the job that many of us hoped it would and which will likely be needed in future.

[potty trained]

I don't think that was anyone involved in OneThistle who said it had "power" David. It was someone's perceiving of OneThistle. Incorrectly.

 

ETA of course that depends how said person defines power, just because you don't sit in the boardroom doesn't mean you can't influence the club. A place on the board means nothing. If a group of fans believe in one thstle and what it has done, one thistle can have power to sway decisions that will effect said fans.

 

With regards to getting involved to rebuild the trust... Why?

 

That very action took place 6 years ago when removing willie Arthur, it was rebuilt, set up and handed over. The first board then handed over to another 1 or 2 boards after that, which I think you were involved?

 

As I said, the 1876 club vote neutered the trust, and from then and forever, it will never have any influence, never mind respect in the boardroom.

 

Even if this trust board is a good one, it will take two to three years to get to a level of saying, we're ready to join the club board, we've done this this and this... But in the 3 years there will be 3 elections, how many of trusts new breed will be here in a year or two?

Edited September 17, 2013 by potty trained