Just In From Easter Road

[javeajag]

 

 

 

i think everyone should step back from their computer (or mobile device), and just let this sink in.

 

And very positive

[Trotter]

 

 

Does it need two people to shout it? lol

 

The reason we are struggling at times is our lack of experience at this level. These players demand wages we cannot afford. If you want to blame Archie for that then fair enough. But even if we do double our budget next year then it will still probably be short of most of the other teams in this league.

 

 

Maybe if it was then they'd get the message as plenty on this board seem to think the players alone are to blame.

 

As for player budget & lack of experience at this level. It's not the be all & end all.

 

The manager had from May until 31st August to try & get a centre half & a centre forward, amongst others. We had numerous trialists- recommended by agents no doubt- but didn't seem to have the contacts of the previous manager to get folk in.

 

Anyway, I've said my bit on numerous threads as to why I feel he's out his depth.

 

The next 2 (or 4 games) will prove this once and for all for me.

[Lenziejag]

 

 

Maybe if it was then they'd get the message as plenty on this board seem to think the players alone are to blame.

 

As for player budget & lack of experience at this level. It's not the be all & end all.

 

The manager had from May until 31st August to try & get a centre half & a centre forward, amongst others. We had numerous trialists- recommended by agents no doubt- but didn't seem to have the contacts of the previous manager to get folk in.

 

Anyway, I've said my bit on numerous threads as to why I feel he's out his depth.

 

The next 2 (or 4 games) will prove this once and for all for me.

 

Have you ever said, though, who would be guaranteed to do a better job, within our budget. Whenever, the team or manager are getting criticised, it seems to be conveniently forgotten that we have been missing at least 2 and arguably 3 first team starters for the best part of the season. Secondly, on Sat, Doolan was off after 20 mins and Mair before 1/2 time. I think Archie is doing the best he can under the circumstances.

 

There aren't any managers that would guarantee success - you just need to look at Butcher or Shiels.

 

I am pretty sure that most players didn't expect Thistle to play as well as we have done this year and were stick on to be in the playoff(if not relegated outright) and therefore stayed away from joining.

[stillresigned]

Having been to the vast majority of our games this season I've got to say that overall I have been relatively pleased with our desire to try and play attractive, entertaining and attacking football. Obviously, this is not mutually exclusive of the concept of sound defence and I think it is in this latter area, that we have let ourselves down consistently. Unlike some I do not argue that the removal of the manager is likely to result either in an immediate or lasting positive change , in the state of things viz. Partick Thistle. I fear this option to be the one supported by those who are frankly never satisfied or who harbour unrealistic expectations of our club in the grand scheme of things.

[Trotter]

 

 

Have you ever said, though, who would be guaranteed to do a better job, within our budget. Whenever, the team or manager are getting criticised, it seems to be conveniently forgotten that we have been missing at least 2 and arguably 3 first team starters for the best part of the season. Secondly, on Sat, Doolan was off after 20 mins and Mair before 1/2 time. I think Archie is doing the best he can under the circumstances.

 

There aren't any managers that would guarantee success - you just need to look at Butcher or Shiels.

 

I am pretty sure that most players didn't expect Thistle to play as well as we have done this year and were stick on to be in the playoff(if not relegated outright) and therefore stayed away from joining.

 

It has to be said that Osbourne was a risk signing, albeit a very good player, because of his injury record. That was one of the main reasons why he's ended up at Firhill.

 

Sean Welsh exactly the same. I think he's a fantastic player but when you look at his injury record over the past 5/6 years you are taking a risk if you think he'll be fit for the season.

 

Doolan & Taylor much the same. Doolan on a rich vein of form but you're not losing a lot playing Taylor.

 

Mair we tried on numerous occasions last Summer but St Mirren wouldn't budge. The plan an seemed to be the next trialist who showed up ok in a week's training- Piccolo.

 

Relegated outright was always unlikely due to Hearts -15 points deduction but there in is another point.

 

How quickly have Hearts u21s adapted to the top league compared with us? They've learned a lot quicker than we have.

 

As for who to replace Archie with...

 

That's what applications are for. We're still a big draw.

 

Personally when we went for Archie, I'd rather have seen someone with experience appointed as a mentor type. I still think that's needed just now.

 

The not seeing games out is a major concern.

[David Brent]

It would be interesting to see what position we would be in if Osbourne and/or Welsh had both stayed fit all season (albeit there is more chance of Rangers posting healthy financial figures). We have desperately missed an aggressive midfielder who can provide leadership on the park and try take some of the pressure off the defence. Not a criticism of Bannigan or Fraser but they could do with some experience beside them

[Lenziejag]

 

 

It has to be said that Osbourne was a risk signing, albeit a very good player, because of his injury record. That was one of the main reasons why he's ended up at Firhill.

 

Sean Welsh exactly the same. I think he's a fantastic player but when you look at his injury record over the past 5/6 years you are taking a risk if you think he'll be fit for the season.

 

Doolan & Taylor much the same. Doolan on a rich vein of form but you're not losing a lot playing Taylor.

 

Mair we tried on numerous occasions last Summer but St Mirren wouldn't budge. The plan an seemed to be the next trialist who showed up ok in a week's training- Piccolo.

 

Relegated outright was always unlikely due to Hearts -15 points deduction but there in is another point.

 

How quickly have Hearts u21s adapted to the top league compared with us? They've learned a lot quicker than we have.

 

As for who to replace Archie with...

 

That's what applications are for. We're still a big draw.

 

Personally when we went for Archie, I'd rather have seen someone with experience appointed as a mentor type. I still think that's needed just now.

 

The not seeing games out is a major concern.

 

The Hearts players haven't learned a lot quicker. When it mattered for them they were rubbish. They have gained about 1/2 their points total in the last 6 games, when they were certain to be relegated and could play with no tension.

 

Please come up with some names of managers that would guarantee success

[read'n'yell]

The Hearts players haven't learned a lot quicker. When it mattered for them they were rubbish. They have gained about 1/2 their points total in the last 6 games, when they were certain to be relegated and could play with no tension.

 

Please come up with some names of managers that would guarantee success

 

Jose Mourinho wouldn't guarantee us success.

[The Cup]

 

Please come up with some names of managers that would guarantee success

 

What is success? Avoiding relegation this season?

How about next season? Avoiding 12th place? Avoiding 11th place? Top 6? Relegation with a cup run?

It's impossible to guarantee success.

Sticking with Archie won't guarantee any one of those.

[allyo]

 

 

Jose Mourinho wouldn't guarantee us success.

 

But he would guarantee boring football.

[Jag]

Piccolo was at fault for the goal. He just let Stanton run clear in the box.

Not the first, or second, or third time he has been at fault for a goal.

 

Archie signed him though.

Taylor-Sinclair was at fault for the goal.

 

Caught on his heels as he has been many times this season.

[Trotter]

 

 

The Hearts players haven't learned a lot quicker. When it mattered for them they were rubbish. They have gained about 1/2 their points total in the last 6 games, when they were certain to be relegated and could play with no tension.

 

Please come up with some names of managers that would guarantee success

 

They were certainties for relegation at start of the season.

 

& I very much doubt any club could tell you that but we need a manager that can get his point across as Archibald obviously isn't or we wouldn't be conceding as many goals on the last 5 minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[read'n'yell]

Elliot is most culpable allowing McGivern to get where he did in our half was scandalous for somebody who had been on the pitch 5 minutes. Supposedly "physical" guy as some say, doesn't use any of it in my opinion. Stop the cross you stop the goal. Secondly, Balatoni should of won the header but he was caught on his feet with a high ball and a player getting to the challenge with a running advantage. Next, Bannigan left Stanton at the edge of the box after marking him from the half way line. Fourthly, Sinclair didn't see this developing and got caught ball watching while Stanton ran in (but Bannigan really should of followed through).

 

So basically four players at fault in a succession of mistakes that should never of happened when holding a lead that would all but secure our safety in the top flight. I'm a great believer that defending starts with your forwards and therefore, to me, Elliot is the biggest culprit (especially as he was just on and was simply standing in the middle of our half doing nothing). But the blame rests with all four of the players. Piccollo not at fault.

[allyo]

Blame is such a positive thing.

[peagreenboy]

& I very much doubt any club could tell you that but we need a manager that can get his point across as Archibald obviously isn't or we wouldn't be conceding as many goals on the last 5 minutes.

 

Tell us your nomination for manager then, genius!

[Lenziejag]

 

 

They were certainties for relegation at start of the season.

 

& I very much doubt any club could tell you that but we need a manager that can get his point across as Archibald obviously isn't or we wouldn't be conceding as many goals on the last 5 minutes.

 

That also is rubbish. If they had been collecting points at a rate of 15 every 6 games, they would be nowhere near the relegation spot. In England Coventry had a large points deduction. Did they get relegated ?

 

So, who do you want in as manager. Danny Lennon ?, Alan Johnstone? ,Derek Adams ?, Terry Butcher ?, Gary Locke ? Any of the top 6 managers. A championship manager, maybe. Come on, gives us a name

 

Bearing in mind the knives have been out for Archie for ages, but he is doing better than some of these and is only behind one of these at the moment.

 

I am afraid that your argument, which is basically, anybody but Archie doesn't wash with me

[Trotter]

 

 

Tell us your nomination for manager then, genius!

 

Don't think there's any need for the smart @rse remark.

 

& read the rest of the thread before you pass comment again.

[Trotter]

 

 

That also is rubbish. If they had been collecting points at a rate of 15 every 6 games, they would be nowhere near the relegation spot. In England Coventry had a large points deduction. Did they get relegated ?

 

So, who do you want in as manager. Danny Lennon ?, Alan Johnstone? ,Derek Adams ?, Terry Butcher ?, Gary Locke ? Any of the top 6 managers. A championship manager, maybe. Come on, gives us a name

 

Bearing in mind the knives have been out for Archie for ages, but he is doing better than some of these and is only behind one of these at the moment.

 

I am afraid that your argument, which is basically, anybody but Archie doesn't wash with me

 

That was my point. Hearts have been learning. I think their points tally has increased every quarter.

 

Did Coventry have to play an u21team? Did Coventry have a transfer embargo?

 

My argument is we need a manager who can get his point across to the players. Archibald obviously isn't doing that or we wouldn't be repeating the same mistakes we made in August/September.

 

Not that I'm suggesting him but how is he currently doing better than Lennon? He's kept his team up with games to spare.

 

Gary Locke has won more points this season than Archibald despite transfer embargo & mainly u21 team.

 

Butcher we know will get the players he wants in the Summer. Won't be pretty to watch I grant you but it'll be successful in a relative sense.

 

I've been watching us for more years than I care to remember but if it had been any other manager other than Alan Archibald that hadn't won a home game well into the new year, the knives would've been out long before.

 

Watching a game just now where one manager got the team promoted but then found himself way out his depth in the next league. Football is a business.

 

Ex SPL managers who are currently out of work include Lomas, Mowbray, Coyle. But il say again. Unless you put feelers out or advertise it you don't know. We are still an attractive draw- if we remain in the SPL.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Trotter

[Winter of '63]

It has to be said that Osbourne was a risk signing, albeit a very good player, because of his injury record. That was one of the main reasons why he's ended up at Firhill.

 

Sean Welsh exactly the same. I think he's a fantastic player but when you look at his injury record over the past 5/6 years you are taking a risk if you think he'll be fit for the season.

 

Doolan & Taylor much the same. Doolan on a rich vein of form but you're not losing a lot playing Taylor.

 

Mair we tried on numerous occasions last Summer but St Mirren wouldn't budge. The plan an seemed to be the next trialist who showed up ok in a week's training- Piccolo.

 

Relegated outright was always unlikely due to Hearts -15 points deduction but there in is another point.

 

How quickly have Hearts u21s adapted to the top league compared with us? They've learned a lot quicker than we have.

 

As for who to replace Archie with...

 

That's what applications are for. We're still a big draw.

 

Personally when we went for Archie, I'd rather have seen someone with experience appointed as a mentor type. I still think that's needed just now.

 

The not seeing games out is a major concern.

I don't think many Thistle fans will actually disagree with your analysis - the problems are obvious...and repeated in case anyone missed them. However, I don't agree with your solution.

 

The team has a soft centre - we get bullied, we lose goals from set-pieces, just after scoring or in the last few minutes, we can't hold on to leads. From what I've seen, I would'nt rate St Johnstone & Inverness as better than us...but they have picked up far more points. Kilmarnock & Hibs have been poor sides but we have only broken even with them on head to heads.

 

Some of Archie's substitutions have been baffling - particularly taking off Higgy & Erskine at Motherwell and the persistent use of Elliot as a non-impact sub.

 

Hearts are picking up points now there's no pressure on them and there's a lesson for Scottish Football about giving young players an extended chance - I'm old enough to remember a young gangling Thistle centre half who didn't look too great initially...his name was Alan Hansen. However, at the start of this season, we had a less experienced side and probably a lower budget than Hearts. We've since lost Welsh & Osborne and Muirhead & O'Donnell too.

 

Barry Smith at Dundee and Jim McIntyre at Dunfermline - both club legends who won promotion - were clearly out of their depth in the top League with their teams destined for relegation long before the end of the season. Archie has done much better than them. I don't think sacking a manager is necessarily the solution.

 

Appointing a rookie manager was always likely to be a risk but on balance I still have Archie very much in credit. Higgy has been a great signing, Taylor has been good and Mair a decent journeyman defender.

 

To be honest, I would rather watch skillful footballers trying to play passing football - we struggle when we don't at least try this - than the big lumps of wood & hoofball merchants I've seen in the opposition...though as we've seen it is difficult to defend against this.

 

I'm vaguely disappointed we haven't stayed up comfortably but it's certainly made for an exciting season. I have been more enthusiastic about following the current side than any for the last 30 years - that in itself seems reason enough to give Archie the chance to do even better.

[Norgethistle]

That was my point. Hearts have been learning. I think their points tally has increased every quarter.

 

Did Coventry have to play an u21team? Did Coventry have a transfer embargo?

 

My argument is we need a manager who can get his point across to the players. Archibald obviously isn't doing that or we wouldn't be repeating the same mistakes we made in August/September.

 

Not that I'm suggesting him but how is he currently doing better than Lennon? He's kept his team up with games to spare.

 

Gary Locke has won more points this season than Archibald despite transfer embargo & mainly u21 team.

 

Butcher we know will get the players he wants in the Summer. Won't be pretty to watch I grant you but it'll be successful in a relative sense.

 

I've been watching us for more years than I care to remember but if it had been any other manager other than Alan Archibald that hadn't won a home game well into the new year, the knives would've been out long before.

 

Watching a game just now where one manager got the team promoted but then found himself way out his depth in the next league. Football is a business.

 

Ex SPL managers who are currently out of work include Lomas, Mowbray, Coyle. But il say again. Unless you put feelers out or advertise it you don't know. We are still an attractive draw- if we remain in the SPL.

 

Hearts have been playing without fear of relegation as they are already relegated

[BowenBoys]

That was my point. Hearts have been learning. I think their points tally has increased every quarter.

 

Did Coventry have to play an u21team? Did Coventry have a transfer embargo?

 

My argument is we need a manager who can get his point across to the players. Archibald obviously isn't doing that or we wouldn't be repeating the same mistakes we made in August/September.

 

Not that I'm suggesting him but how is he currently doing better than Lennon? He's kept his team up with games to spare.

 

Gary Locke has won more points this season than Archibald despite transfer embargo & mainly u21 team.

 

Butcher we know will get the players he wants in the Summer. Won't be pretty to watch I grant you but it'll be successful in a relative sense.

 

I've been watching us for more years than I care to remember but if it had been any other manager other than Alan Archibald that hadn't won a home game well into the new year, the knives would've been out long before.

 

Watching a game just now where one manager got the team promoted but then found himself way out his depth in the next league. Football is a business.

 

Ex SPL managers who are currently out of work include Lomas, Mowbray, Coyle. But il say again. Unless you put feelers out or advertise it you don't know. We are still an attractive draw- if we remain in the SPL.

 

All of these would laugh out loud at an interview. First when they found out how much they would be paid and then again when they found out how much their budget would be. Get real.

 

I believe that we are indebted to Archie and Shaggy for getting us up last season. They turned around our away form, made us harder to beat. They instilled belief in our young, inexperienced team who played two games a week while Morton sat top of the league with points in the bag. In the end, we ripped the league apart.

 

Yes, undoubtably, the Premiership has been tough. I haven't seen us win this season which is remarkable. It has been a tough time for management and squad. Bouyed by the success of last season but short of top class experience, they have struggled to adapt. We have to do better next season.

 

Archie needs to show his mettle over the summer. We need to strengthen. If the Board do indeed double the budget it will help.

 

I will reserve judgement until this time next year. Archie deserves a chance to make Partick Thistle an established Premiership team if he fulfils his brief of keeping us up.

[Lenziejag]

 

 

That was my point. Hearts have been learning. I think their points tally has increased every quarter.

 

Did Coventry have to play an u21team? Did Coventry have a transfer embargo?

 

My argument is we need a manager who can get his point across to the players. Archibald obviously isn't doing that or we wouldn't be repeating the same mistakes we made in August/September.

 

Not that I'm suggesting him but how is he currently doing better than Lennon? He's kept his team up with games to spare.

 

Gary Locke has won more points this season than Archibald despite transfer embargo & mainly u21 team.

 

Butcher we know will get the players he wants in the Summer. Won't be pretty to watch I grant you but it'll be successful in a relative sense.

 

I've been watching us for more years than I care to remember but if it had been any other manager other than Alan Archibald that hadn't won a home game well into the new year, the knives would've been out long before.

 

Watching a game just now where one manager got the team promoted but then found himself way out his depth in the next league. Football is a business.

 

Ex SPL managers who are currently out of work include Lomas, Mowbray, Coyle. But il say again. Unless you put feelers out or advertise it you don't know. We are still an attractive draw- if we remain in the SPL.

 

Norge gets my point about Hearts.

 

Lennon is the one that has done a bit better, but don't forget St M fans wanted him out until very recently.

 

I think that it is the style of football that Thistle have been playing that has kept Archie in the job. Do you remember the last time we were in the top league. It was turgid and we didn't compete with anybody. Going into the split we were 14 points behind

 

At least you have provided some names. Lomas might be in our budget but I doubt the other 2 would

 

 

[cyprusjag]

The obvious candidate for manager is Brendan Rodgers. Oh wait ,see Liverpool lost a 2 goal lead in the last 10 mins tonight.He must be sh~te.

[peagreenboy]

Ex SPL managers who are currently out of work include Lomas, Mowbray, Coyle. But il say again. Unless you put feelers out or advertise it you don't know. We are still an attractive draw- if we remain in the SPL.

 

Lomas, Mowbray, and Coyle who all managed teams in the English Championship. Do you honestly think any of them would dramatically downsize to a Scottish club? I think you seriously overestimate the "attractiveness" of the SPFL.

 

You do realise that financially Partick Thistle are the poorest team in the top league? And that won't change next season if we stay up and only Dundee return to the league? Jesus, even if we get relegated we are no better than mid-table in the money stakes. The more money you spend, the higher up the league you finish.

 

In this heartless world where some Thistle fans want to boot out a club legend after one full season in charge because ... well, I guess just because you have arbitrary targets that he has failed to meet - why the hell would any manager of the sort you suggest take a huge pay cut to come?

 

And there's only two possible outcomes anyway -

• He doesn't get off to a good start - and you're right on his back ... because if you don't give Archie much time, why give an experienced one any?
  
• He does get off to a good start - he leaves at the first offer for any better money
  

NO THANKS

 

**** Thistle and their 'fans' if they're not going to give Alan Archibald time to learn. That's not the club I'm interested in supporting, and I fervently hope people like you remain in the minority.

Edited May 6, 2014 by peagreenboy

[Trotter]

 

In this heartless world where some Thistle fans want to boot out a club legend after one full season in charge

 

**** Thistle and their 'fans' if they're not going to give Alan Archibald time to learn. That's not the club I'm interested in supporting, and I fervently hope people like you remain in the minority.

 

Left those two snippets as that probably sums you & many others up.

 

"Club Legend"- So he's untouchable?

 

He's given great service to PTFC but when DU came calling as a player he was off (not saying he's wrong as you have to look after your own interests) and if he made a success as manger don't kid yourself that he wouldn't go elsewhere. You've said yourself that if another manager came in that's what they would do. Why wouldn't Alan Archibald?

 

It's been said so many times by so many people- no room for sentiment in football.

 

It's a business.

 

"Time to learn?" - How long? If you're in a job & the same mistake continually occurs what would happen?

 

It would be one of two things. You'd either be given a mentor to make sure you don't cost the company any more money or you'd be shown the door.

 

It's a business.

 

As for the managers that I mentioned, I don't know if they would or wouldn't be interested but if you haven't got a job & want to rebuild your managerial career then the money doesn't become an issue as these guys are probably comfortable after playing careers.

 

We're the poorest team in the league with the 6th biggest attendance. Now I'm not suggesting the BoD throw money (like most of them have much interest in the club any way except for how much money the Bing & the Main Stand can get them. Business!!). However if we survive it's already been said that the budget will significantly increase.

 

Does the current managerial team have the contacts in the game to bring in players other than ex team mates or players they're friendly with?

 

I guess we'll know in the Summer.

 

If we go down, does the managerial team have the contacts to fill the gaps left by the boys that move on other than guys they've played with or are friendly with (many coming to end of career).

 

Archibald already stated that agents offering him players. Why say that? Surely he should be scouting his own rather than being offered players? Thought that was a strange comment.

 

But for the last time I'll say it. Tactically naive. No plan B. Same system all season & when he does change it through subs the players look baffled- Hearts at home springs to mind.

 

Substitutions. Predictable. Many others have said the same.

 

He's learning. Well Hartley learned in 3rd Div, as did Levein, Lennon, Johnston to name 3. Top flight football not the best place to learn your trade I'd suggest. Sure some make a success but many more don't.

 

If, and still is a big if, we go down, how long before we get back up? But it's ok as Archibald a club legend.

 

BTW, I'm assuming you never called for Dick Campbell's sacking? That's not the club you're supporting as you say.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Trotter