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[Garscube Road End]

Think the fact that not many are disagreeing with the sentiment that Archie isn't building on the McCall & McNamara reigns suggests more are having doubts.

 

I've been shouted down on here in the past for saying such things & perhaps at times folk were correct in saying give him time etc.

 

However, when you think back to that very first game that Archie took the reigns against Morton where we got ourselves 2up early in second half but couldn't defend set pieces, pushed self destruct button and were lucky to escape with the point.

 

Now, wind on 18 months, has he learned? Are the players learning from him? I'd argue no.

 

Bear in mind we have a good number of players that have played League 1 football or higher in England so you could argue we have better players.

 

Yet, the same basic errors are being made. Yes the players have to take some responsibility but when the manager's reaction to us being overrun in the middle of park is not to change the system but to change the personnel (who aren't deemed good enough to start) then why does he think it'll change anything?

 

I think something had to be done. Whether that's an Ian McCall type being brought in on the coaching staff as a fresh pair of eyes or someone else with a bit more coaching experience then so be it but this being out thought & out fought by opposition managers & teams has to change or we're in for a long season.

 

Surely should be posted in Archie Must Go Again thread.

[Richard Nixon]

Surely should be posted in Archie Must Go Again thread.

 

For the love of god don't mention that thing lest it reappear to haunt our souls once more ...

[The Cup]

Surely should be posted in Archie Must Go Again thread.

 

You should post in the "gobby but never goes to the games thread."

[Willjag]

Clearly we're more solid at the back when Seabourne is on the park. I don't actually think that there's that much wrong with our side. One or two personnel changes from Friday night and I'm confident we'll beat St Mirren on Tuesday and Craig's coat peg will start to get shoogly again.

[Metz]

 

 

You should post in the "gobby but never goes to the games thread."

you should be in the gobby but knows feck all about football thread.

[The Cup]

you should be in the gobby but knows feck all about football thread.

 

A fan boy of a fan boy.

How humiliating for you.

[Metz]

 

 

A fan boy of a fan boy.

How humiliating for you.

happy to be educated what substance do you have for your post? Other than an unsubstantiated opinion for your post? As I suspect that is beyond your level of education that means what basis do you have for your opinion? Edited September 21, 2014 by Metz

[cyprusjag]

Well if we're going to replace Archie we certainly don't want Louis van Gaal. He loses 2 goal leads so he must be an even bigger buffoon.

[AndyMac]

Some of the decisions Archie has made this season have been a bit strange, Stevenson playing as centre forward and Fox getting a game are the two that I just can't fathom?

 

Watching that game on friday (regardless of the result) was concerning. It has been posted on here a good few times that a good aspect of Scott Fox's game was that he distributed the ball to the defenders to build from the back. However, on friday night Fox was belting every ball straight up the park, he was obviously told to do this as it's not his natural style. Basically the players at the back are no longer good enough to play the ball out of defence.

 

This is Archies team and I'm sorry to say that at the moment, it's going backwards.

[potty trained]

Some of the decisions Archie has made this season have been a bit strange, Stevenson playing as centre forward and Fox getting a game are the two that I just can't fathom?

 

Watching that game on friday (regardless of the result) was concerning. It has been posted on here a good few times that a good aspect of Scott Fox's game was that he distributed the ball to the defenders to build from the back. However, on friday night Fox was belting every ball straight up the park, he was obviously told to do this as it's not his natural style. Basically the players at the back are no longer good enough to play the ball out of defence.

 

This is Archies team and I'm sorry to say that at the moment, it's going backwards.

 

He threw a lot out, especially in the first half.

In the second half, standing directly behind him and watching the attacking players telling him where to put it, his kicking was appalling.

[Metz]

You need to have more faith. Do you want to have a team that changes the manager every other week? Look at fulham cardiff or Man U how are they doing ps Man U spent £160m plus this summer.

[AndyMac]

From what I can remember the ball was getting belted up the park more often than not. The point I'm trying to make is that we wer a team that was very good at building from the back. I do not believe that this is now the case anymore.

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

I don't actually think I said he should go. I think I said he maybe needs help.

 

The facts are clear for all to see. We're shambolic at defending set pieces despite the fact we have 2 defenders as manger/asst.

 

We're still conceding goals in last 5 minutes of games. We're still almost religiously playing the same system we played in winning the First Division.

 

Now if other folk think that there's no problem or we're just unlucky then fine that's their opinion.

 

My opinion is that it happens too often for it to be no problem or just unlucky.

 

I simply suggested someone with more experience to come onto the coaching staff to maybe assist him.

 

So to those shouting me down, what do they suggest? Keep quiet & keep going the way things have been going?

 

Maybe they're happy with that but that doesn't mean I should be.

[Mr Bunny]

 

We're still conceding goals in last 5 minutes of games. We're still almost religiously playing the same system we played in winning the First Division.

 

 

Agree with some of what you say but this is wrong. As the previous poster said we are no longer building from the back as we used to and are using a long ball tactic too often when we don't have a player up front to really make that work.

 

We still have skilful players like Lawless, Doolan and Higgs who have good ball skills and move well, confusing the opposition but we don't seem a "whole team" football playing side any more.

 

I think this is partly because our defenders are put under pressure more now and are forced to get rid of the ball quick but there must surely be a way round this. In the last game I saw Seabourne play he seemed to like to bring the ball out when he could. Maybe he can have a calming effect. I should say that I think the manager's tactics recently have to be a bit more cagey defensively with the current full backs not pushing up so freely as Taylor-Sinclair and O'Donnell used to.

 

But I don't think the main problem is about tactics. We still have players good enough to play an attacking game but they will be held back because our defence isn't good enough, at least not without Seabourne in it. We really need to get proper cover for him.

[Dark Passenger]

Bringing in a 'McCall figure' would only serve to undermine Archie.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Dark Passenger

[potty trained]

Bringing in a 'McCall figure' would only serve to undermine Archie.

 

I love the McCall chat. How quickly folk forget us going for the league, at home to Clyde, conceding and own goal and not having a single shot on target in the whole game.

 

[AndyMac]

Perhaps Archie would welcome some help? If Ian McCall is good at anything it's making something out of nothing, what he achieved at Clydebank was remarkable.

 

Archie is a young coach and has so far done very well, where we could do better is trying to get local talent in the door, we are always going to struggle trying to get players in from down south with the wages on offer. We seem to be getting players that no one else wants, and after watching them I see why! Apart from Abdul Osman I don't think any of these "new" signings are very good.

 

Stevenson, looks like player that should be hanging up his boots. Seabourne, seems ok, but no better than just about ok, and is probably injury prone. Carroll appears to be no great shakes either. Perhaps Eccleston will be really good, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

I simply do not believe that there is not the talent we need in our own back yard and see no real future in sifting through the dregs of English football.

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

Bringing in a 'McCall figure' would only serve to undermine Archie.

 

Depends on how it's done.

 

Of it's the manager who chooses someone to add to the coaching team...

 

I'm no fan of Harry Redknapp, nor have we got the same financial backing of a team in the English premiership, but does he undermine his position when he adds ex English national team managers to his coaching staff? He's employed both McLaren & Hoddle as coaches.

 

I understand what you're saying but can we continue as things are? I agree with what folk are saying about us not playing as much football (unless you count passes that are played on the halfway line in front of the opposition).

 

We've been sussed. Teams press us at home- Hamilton & St Mirren 2nd half- and we lose our composure and the midfield battle.

 

We counter that by... changing personnel.

 

Can anyone genuinely say that they are not concerned with the way we're defending set pieces?

 

The way we lose the middle of the park when the opposition up their work rate?

 

The way we only seem to have one guy in the box to aim at when we're on the attack?

 

The way we seem to put on the same subs (namely Elliot, Craigen & whoever the striker sub is) in the same positions that the player we has come off. No change of system?

 

The manager told us pre season that he was working on different systems. I haven't seen any evidence of that this season. We're religiously sticking with a shape that's been sussed by opposition.

 

Is taking off Higgy or Lawless to put on Elliot really going to improve the team?

 

Should we as fans just keep our mouths closed & accept things when it's clearly unravelling?

 

[Dark Passenger]

I love the McCall chat. How quickly folk forget us going for the league, at home to Clyde, conceding and own goal and not having a single shot on target in the whole game.

 

Quite. He might deserve some credit for stopping the rot that began with Gerry Collins' appointment, but he didn't win us a league - he didn't get close - and he never managed us in the top flight. So what do people think he'll bring to the table?

 

And if it's not him, then I assume it's some other 'experienced' coach/former manager they want. Perhaps we can give Tommy Craig a gig if St. Mirren give him the chop.

[Paulo]

Jeez. McCall couldn't get us here the last time, but he's now the man to save our skins? We're a fickle bunch, aren't we?

 

That was a great opportunity to come out fighting and really kill any lingering confidence St Mirren might have had, but we just didn't match the energy of the other team. They were rotten, but they wanted it more. Every time Muirhead is in the team, we sit so deep there is no chance of us passing it through the midfield. Completely out of character, McMillan was joining him too. Underlined the importance of having someone like Seabourne there to control the line. We played right into their hands with that.

 

Higgy misses ATS, that's for sure. Several times when he got the ball to feet, he's looking for the run outside, if only to take one defender off him and give him a chance. Isn't happening. I think we could do with the same on the right from SOD (unless we have Muirhead in there, which leaves us too open). Could McMillan play CB?

 

Nothing worked for Stevenson on Friday. Looked like he had his heavy boots on again, every pass or shot was overhit. Noticed both him and Doolan losing the ball and not bothering to track back, which is disappointing. He does do a lot of covering when Higgy or Lawless break up the park, which is probably missed by most folk just looking for a scapegoat.

 

I could go through 10 out of the 11 with similar criticisms, with an exception for Lawless, who looked on form. I'm hoping we're seeing the inconsistency which comes from introducing 4 new players into the first choice 11. How's that for optimism?

[angry gaz]

A good idea to start with would be to put one of Archie or Shaggy up in the main stand to watch the game.Sometimes I dont know if they realise how far back the team are sitting from their veiwpoint.Honestly that may sound a bit trivial but It could make the world of difference to how, at least one of them, is veiwing the game.We moved a few rows further back up the NS this season and the games look completley different.

[Third Lanark]

 

 

I love the McCall chat. How quickly folk forget us going for the league, at home to Clyde, conceding and own goal and not having a single shot on target in the whole game.

great save buy Hutton from harkins in first half and by Hutton from Paton in last couple of minutes.

However that game was for the taking and it was a very poor performance against a very poor Clyde team

[Garscube Road End]

 

 

You should post in the "gobby but never goes to the games thread."

 

Your usual embarassing sssumption of what another Thistle fan does! We've been here before, haven't we. I go games that I can and a season ticket holder. So your assumption is wrong. Mind you the usual standard of posting from you.

[Mr Bunny]

Jeez. McCall couldn't get us here the last time, but he's now the man to save our skins? We're a fickle bunch, aren't we?

 

That was a great opportunity to come out fighting and really kill any lingering confidence St Mirren might have had, but we just didn't match the energy of the other team. They were rotten, but they wanted it more. Every time Muirhead is in the team, we sit so deep there is no chance of us passing it through the midfield. Completely out of character, McMillan was joining him too. Underlined the importance of having someone like Seabourne there to control the line. We played right into their hands with that.

 

Higgy misses ATS, that's for sure. Several times when he got the ball to feet, he's looking for the run outside, if only to take one defender off him and give him a chance. Isn't happening. I think we could do with the same on the right from SOD (unless we have Muirhead in there, which leaves us too open). Could McMillan play CB?

 

Nothing worked for Stevenson on Friday. Looked like he had his heavy boots on again, every pass or shot was overhit. Noticed both him and Doolan losing the ball and not bothering to track back, which is disappointing. He does do a lot of covering when Higgy or Lawless break up the park, which is probably missed by most folk just looking for a scapegoat.

 

I could go through 10 out of the 11 with similar criticisms, with an exception for Lawless, who looked on form. I'm hoping we're seeing the inconsistency which comes from introducing 4 new players into the first choice 11. How's that for optimism?

 

My take was that Muirhead was expected to be a bit shaky not having played much for a long while and McMillan was acting on instructions to hang back to give a bit of cover. (Carrol being new might have also been a factor). Thought Muirhead was shaky throughout the game; Balatoni was OK but he always seem to have one bad blunder in him each game; Carroll looked much improved from the last game, think he's got potential but it's worrying we've signed a guy who's learning while he plays.

 

As I said before I think defensive worries are having an effect on the rest of the team: note it's in defence we've got the most changes with the forward line much the same apart from Stevenson. The other thing is we've had injuries in a team that needs time to settle: you can handle that easier in a more settled team. Definitely need Seabourne to have an injury free run: while not the greatest centre back we've ever had he does seem to calm things down and get the defence organised.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

From what I can remember the ball was getting belted up the park more often than not. The point I'm trying to make is that we wer a team that was very good at building from the back. I do not believe that this is now the case anymore.

 

Can't back you up with the first sentence as I simply can't remember. Agree tho' about building from the back. We always look more assured when we do that.

 

I think tho' the current shape of the side doesn't lend itself to what should be one of our strengths. Too much space between attacking midfield and our central midfield. Crude tho' it still is a roll out to a defender who then hoofs the ball up the park is still more effective than the goalie punting the ball out his own half.

 

The one thing in his favour Fox has had over Gallacher is his distribution. Up at Pittodrie it was most most noticeable when the latter rarely found a Jags player with his clearances and hardly ever rolled the ball out. That was when we had the shape to build from the back as well. I'm not certain that Fox now also punting the ball so often is due to our shape or lack of confidence in his defence clearing the ball