Just In....11 Hours Ago!

[Richard Nixon]

If Ian McCall, or someone else of his ilk, were to be employed in some sort of coaching role, exactly how many games would have to pass before people started clamouring for Archie to be sacked and replaced? One defeat? Two? Who here would employ someone who would immediately be a direct threat to your own job?

[Ruchillnomore]

It has probably taken me to this time to actually calm down as every time I think about Friday it gets me down. Defensively we are so poor and the problem with that is that most people have been saying the same thing since we got promoted. Many games last season were either lost or drawn due to poor decisions or lapses in concentration which at this level are always punished i.e. Balatoni Friday night for the first goal. Both Balatoni and Muirhead do not work if we do play them together then we need either a sweeper or a defensive midfield player who plays in front and that is not happening.

 

Thats one of the main problems I have with Archie he knew we needed not just one but 2 defenders who could play from the off. Seabourne when he plays is without doubt a solid defender however 2 ganes out so far does not bode well for the rest of the season. We needed another of similar type who does exactly what it says on the tin i.e. defend. There must have been players out there, defenders in the Championship would do a better job than the 2 that we had playing on Friday night. Balatoni is a bombscare waiting to happen in every game and really needs dropped he has cost us a few goals and that is just this season but then again you could do the same with Muirhead. what is the alternative there is no real competition at the heart of the defence if Seabourne is not playing then it really is only either Balatoni or Muirhead and as has been said previously does not inspire confidence through the team. I totally agree with the comments about Fox punches when he should catch, poor decision making when coming off his line and when to stay, for me Gallacher has to start if only for his organising skills for the back 4.

 

Middle to front we are just as good if not better as the rest of the teams around us however again consistency in some of our key players lets us down. Higgy is either Messi or messy, Lawless is playing well however when the cold weather and rain appears he will get muscled out of the midfield, Brannigan for me is the one who needs to develop the most consistency as he could be one of the best midfielders to pull on a Thistle jersey(less yelow cards would be nice) Stevenson not got a clue what to make of it obviously the manager has a role for him but I wish either he would tell him or better still Stevenson understand it. Doolan took his goal well but what sums him up is the second chance i.e. clean through snatches and fails to hit the target second goal and the game is dead in fact I honestly think if that had went in we would have gone on to score 3 or 4.

 

Thats the nutshell consistency beat St Mirren and we are 10 points ahead with 2 harder games than us coming up in the league. We have not won 2 league games in a row since coming back up to the Premier and I think for this season that has to be rectified sooner rather than later for us because if we can then we can look down and consolidate quite nicely however keep stumbling like we are then St Mirren and Ross County will always be around us.

 

The manager has to take it on the chin for how we are at this stage of the season however thats what you get the big bucks for so hopefully the mistakes are cut out but seeing as we seem to making the same ones over and over again it may be dificult for him with the current squad as his optopns for change are severly limited. However the lack of options in the squad is no defence for the manager as this present squad and recruitment is all of his own making.

[allyo]

Important players missing. Had to play unbelievably badly to lose. Friday was awful but should be viewed in context. Not all rosy but we currently have more points than Hibs.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

McCall has a knack of appointing useful deputies both at our club and elsewhere. I'm fairly sure he's little or no history of being a useful deputy.

I know from hearing first hand that McCall has envisaged the "director of football" role for himself. On a purely footballing basis and from his style of management when with us I can see where that would be of benefit. I'm skirting round the nuts and bolts of his departure from us. But at the same time I'd ask why someone of his experience is being overlooked for management vacancies at other clubs in lower divisions. And that being the case if he would in fact be an ideal mentor or "director of football".

[Blackpool Jags]

I agree with the points that've been made around bringing McCall in undermining Archie. I wouldn't want that either. I suppose the issue would be how we provide assistance for A&S to deal with what is becoming a festering sore.

 

I think it's a comms issue rather than a should we / shouldn't we. If it's handled properly and respectfully, then both Archie and the club will be winners. I see Archie as our long term manager and I want that to be the case, but we're at a juncture where something's a bit broken and which came be fixed without damaging his credibility.

[stillresigned]

 

 

Can't back you up with the first sentence as I simply can't remember. Agree tho' about building from the back. We always look more assured when we do that.

 

I think tho' the current shape of the side doesn't lend itself to what should be one of our strengths. Too much space between attacking midfield and our central midfield. Crude tho' it still is a roll out to a defender who then hoofs the ball up the park is still more effective than the goalie punting the ball out his own half.

 

The one thing in his favour Fox has had over Gallacher is his distribution. Up at Pittodrie it was most most noticeable when the latter rarely found a Jags player with his clearances and hardly ever rolled the ball out. That was when we had the shape to build from the back as well. I'm not certain that Fox now also punting the ball so often is due to our shape or lack of confidence in his defence clearing the ball. Agree with vast majority of what you say, but what Gallagher has got over Fox is that he is on the evidence I have seen is a better goalkeeper! His distribution can be worked on, I'm not sure Foxy's presence can much as I personally like him.

Agree with the vast majority of what you say, but can't agree re. Fox and Gallagher, as much as I personally like Fox.

Unfortunately, the decisive thing Gallagher has in his favour over Fox is that on the whole he is a better goalkeeper. Particularly when it comes to that undefinable qualitY presence.

Edited September 22, 2014 by stillresigned

[stillresigned]

Not at all in favour of bringing in an experienced assistant for Archie. 1. I doubt Archie and Shaggie would welcome such a move and 2. Don't see where that has really worked unless idea initiated with manager, to be honest how many of us would welcome someone else telling them how to do their job? Unless your second name is McCoist, of course.?

[Norgethistle]

Jeez. McCall couldn't get us here the last time, but he's now the man to save our skins? We're a fickle bunch, aren't we?

 

That was a great opportunity to come out fighting and really kill any lingering confidence St Mirren might have had, but we just didn't match the energy of the other team. They were rotten, but they wanted it more. Every time Muirhead is in the team, we sit so deep there is no chance of us passing it through the midfield. Completely out of character, McMillan was joining him too. Underlined the importance of having someone like Seabourne there to control the line. We played right into their hands with that.

 

Higgy misses ATS, that's for sure. Several times when he got the ball to feet, he's looking for the run outside, if only to take one defender off him and give him a chance. Isn't happening. I think we could do with the same on the right from SOD (unless we have Muirhead in there, which leaves us too open). Could McMillan play CB?

 

Nothing worked for Stevenson on Friday. Looked like he had his heavy boots on again, every pass or shot was overhit. Noticed both him and Doolan losing the ball and not bothering to track back, which is disappointing. He does do a lot of covering when Higgy or Lawless break up the park, which is probably missed by most folk just looking for a scapegoat.

 

I could go through 10 out of the 11 with similar criticisms, with an exception for Lawless, who looked on form. I'm hoping we're seeing the inconsistency which comes from introducing 4 new players into the first choice 11. How's that for optimism?

 

Does no one remember Mccalls rolling 3 / 5year plan? He had ran his course, taken us as far as he could, the fact he hasn't managed since maybe speaks for its self, if I rememebr most people were glad when he left as we hadn't progressed in years since he stopped the rot of DC, bringing him in as a scout would be a decent move but not as an assistant in any shape of form to Archie

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Agree with the vast majority of what you say, but can't agree re. Fox and Gallagher, as much as I personally like Fox.

Unfortunately, the decisive thing Gallagher has in his favour over Fox is that on the whole he is a better goalkeeper. Particularly when it comes to that undefinable qualitY presence.

 

I didn't say Gallacher wasn't the better keeper. All I said was Fox is generally better at distributing the ball, an ability that all but deserted him on Saturday. On form over the last ten months Gallacher has shown why he's a top goalie and Fox has on a few occasions shown why he's mostly been second choice. Gallacher's distribution simply isn't very good

[cyprusjag]

You would think that A & S have the experience to sort out our defence so is the problem

 

(a) They are unable to demonstrate / articulate defensive duties

or

( The players panic and don't have confidence to stick to the game plan.

 

I suspect it's (

[Blackpool Jags]

Just for me to be clear about what I'm saying - I'm not proposing bringing McCall, or anybody else in as an assistant. I just think it might be worth using him for a non-specific period, eg a month or so, to work alongside A&S to develop a solution of some sort to our late-in-the-match disintegration problem. Done properly, it could prove valuable. If, however, it is felt that it would be counter productive, then I'd be more than happy to forget the idea.

[Norgethistle]

Just for me to be clear about what I'm saying - I'm not proposing bringing McCall, or anybody else in as an assistant. I just think it might be worth using him for a non-specific period, eg a month or so, to work alongside A&S to develop a solution of some sort to our late-in-the-match disintegration problem. Done properly, it could prove valuable. If, however, it is felt that it would be counter productive, then I'd be more than happy to forget the idea.

 

How about the threat of Lambie waiting in the dressing room at full time if they throw it away in the last 5 minutes

[AndyMac]

To clear up what I'm saying;

 

We are lucky to have Archie as our manager and he has done very well to get us promoted and to keep us up.

 

However, if we don't get a steady supply of good cheap players through the door we are sooner or later going to go back down. I believe that the lack of supply of good cheap players is our main problem.

 

Ian McCall's greatest strength is bringing in good players on the cheap.

 

Archie has the eye for a good player, neverthess, it's one thing knowing a good player and another getting them. If Ian McCall was given a new job to bring in players for Archie to run the rule over, it would IMO be a good move and leave Archie more time to concentrate on coaching. It could be very good for our club.

 

There must be other Chic Charnley's or Frank Macavennie's going to waste out there, somewhere? If so we should find them and make them ours.

[Third Lanark]

To clear up what I'm saying;

 

We are lucky to have Archie as our manager and he has done very well to get us promoted and to keep us up.

 

However, if we don't get a steady supply of good cheap players through the door we are sooner or later going to go back down. I believe that the lack of supply of good cheap players is our main problem.

 

Ian McCall's greatest strength is bringing in good players on the cheap.

 

Archie has the eye for a good player, neverthess, it's one thing knowing a good player and another getting them. If Ian McCall was given a new job to bring in players for Archie to run the rule over, it would IMO be a good move and leave Archie more time to concentrate on coaching. It could be very good for our club.

 

There must be other Chic Charnley's or Frank Macavennie's going to waste out there, somewhere? If so we should find them and make them ours.

Andy - Maybe I am interpreting wrongly here - do you mean McCall as a chief scout or something mate?

[AndyMac]

TL, yes I believe Ian McCall would make a very good chief scout, nothing else. If the club were to speculate on this we could do very well over the longer term.

[Jag]

Similar to Ruchillnomore, I have been really angry over the last few days and got wound up every time I have spoken or thought about Friday's game. I was furious leaving Firhill the other night, haven't been as annoyed as that in a good while. This seems to be a really common feeling around the rest of the posters on this forum as well. Can anyone put their finger on why this game in particular has pissed people off more than others? Was it all about the missed opportunity? Getting riled again....

 

Anyway, my thoughts from the game are similar to a lot of others. Why is Fox back in the team? I really can't understand it. Gallacher has proved several times that he is the better option. Does Archie blame him for the goals at Aberdeen? Fox's decision making is abysmal at times and the amount of cheap goals he lost last season was frightening. Surely now Gal must come back in. I don't think anyone realises what a good talker he is as well, something that is key for the back four.

 

Jake Carroll man of the match? I must have been watching a different game. He maybe wasn't the worst but in my opinion he wasn't far off it. Stephen O'Donnell isn't a great defender but he is a good out when overlapping and I would like like to see him back in for Carroll, with Jordan McMillan moving over to left back. McMillan didn't have his best game the other night but I think we should be looking at him for captain. Jury is still out for me on big Seabourne but he is miles better than Muirhead, who looks to be totally out his depth. Balatoni's form has plummeted as well after a good run in last season and was at fault for St Mirren's first goal.

 

Everyone wants Ryan Stevenson to do well, all of us do. However, I think there are a lot of fans clutching at straws, clinging on to any little positive thing he does and building it up to somehow justify his place in the team. He has been rotten. Absolutely rotten. The excuse was until a couple of games ago he wasn't a striker, which I entirely agree with. He doesn't look fit though and a lot of times he doesn't look interested. He has been back in his preferred role for the last two games and he just hasn't performed. If I were Archie I would be looking to give him a short spell out of the team to get his fitness up and hopefully gain some desire. I'm not saying he is a bad player but he has been playing badly and we have other options.

 

We actually played relatively well (St Mirren were dreadful) in the first half on Friday night and could have had the game sewn up at half time. They are an awful team and were there for the taking. The second half was a shockingly bad performance though and I feel we will be relying on other teams being poorer than us to stave off relegation this season unless something changes soon.

 

Getting myself all het up before bed time...

[ThickAsThieves]

Can anyone put their finger on why this game in particular has pissed people off more than others? Was it all about the missed opportunity? Getting riled again....

Straw that broke the camel's back.

 

Just how many times have we been through that situation? More than any other team in Scotland, it feels.

[Blackpool Jags]

It probably doesn't help my thinking that the only two competitive games I've seen so far this season have been at home to Hamilton and of course Friday's debacle. That said, I am 100% of the view that Archie is our future and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

However, if we don't get a steady supply of good cheap players through the door we are sooner or later going to go back down. I believe that the lack of supply of good cheap players is our main problem.

 

That's a valid point and one made all the more valid by the number of stay away fans we now have. Our principal revenue source is showing no signs of increasing, in fact decreasing quite significantly of late. The various reasons for this can be discussed ad nauseam but the bottom line is we'll have to "get lucky" again by looking in unlikely places for suitable players. At least till we hopefully see a supply of our youngsters progressing.

Don't think for a moment tho' that Ian McCall is the man to help with recruitment. Apart from other separate reasons.he'd be simply out of his comfort zone in the top division.

[Lindau]

 

 

That's a valid point and one made all the more valid by the number of stay away fans we now have. Our principal revenue source is showing no signs of increasing, in fact decreasing quite significantly of late.

.

 

The drop in attendances has been noticeable this season. Is it because we are no longer so exciting to watch, is it because of the lack of a half decent pre season signing (Lyle Taylor for example) or maybe the 10% increase in admission price has tipped the balance...when did anyone on here get a 10% wage increase? Probably a combination of all 3

 

[Jag]

.

 

The drop in attendances has been noticeable this season. Is it because we are no longer so exciting to watch, is it because of the lack of a half decent pre season signing (Lyle Taylor for example) or maybe the 10% increase in admission price has tipped the balance...when did anyone on here get a 10% wage increase? Probably a combination of all 3

Last season's corresponding fixture had an attendance of 4,946 and at the Friday night game after the split there were 5,971 people there. On Friday night there was 3,821 and that was on the back of a really disappointing crowd for Inverness game. The Friday games generally get bigger crowds so it is well down and we are suffering for it. St Mirren's poor run obviously didn't help but numbers were down in both supports.

 

I would agree that it could be a combination of all three and also the excitement factor that the first season back in the top league brought has perhaps gone. Definitely nowhere near as good to watch as we were last season though.

[Dark Passenger]

I'd contend that we're still an entertaining side - Sun journo said on Twitter last week that we're the team he'd love to watch every week - but it's clear that the cavalier approach we took into games in the early months of last season has to be tempered somewhat as we look to cement our top flight status. Lawless's run of form is making up for Taylor-Sinclair/O'Donnell's absence.

 

Friday's crowd might have been disappointing, but the referendum has to be factored in. I'd resigned myself to a night on the couch following the result and had to push myself to attend the match.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Dark Passenger

[Dark Passenger]

The drop in attendances has been noticeable this season...is it because of the lack of a half decent pre season signing (Lyle Taylor for example)

 

Still pushing that line? Perhaps you mean 'marquee signing', because it's clear that some of our summer signings are better than that.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

You have to query the logic of those who anticipate us making "significant" signings on the attendances we muster. I must add I don't decry Jags fans who stay away. It would be hypocritical considering my level of enthusiasm during "the Kenny Watson plus ten others" years.

 

I just wish a lot of the non attenders would be more honest re the reasons they stay away. Failing that at least be a trifle more realistic about their chances of returning to the fold. Given the money we're generating from gates of 3000 or so is unlikely to enable us to hang on to the players we've got never mind those they rather irrationally say we should be signing.

 

It gets even more irrational, when not content on questioning the quality of what we already have, it gets pointed out that we also lack quantity (depth to the squad). Just maybe we should turn it on the head and occasionally query not so much the quality of our support but the true depth of our fanbase.

[robphil]

You have to query the logic of those who anticipate us making "significant" signings on the attendances we muster. I must add I don't decry Jags fans who stay away. It would be hypocritical considering my level of enthusiasm during "the Kenny Watson plus ten others" years.

 

I just wish a lot of the non attenders would be more honest re the reasons they stay away. Failing that at least be a trifle more realistic about their chances of returning to the fold. Given the money we're generating from gates of 3000 or so is unlikely to enable us to hang on to the players we've got never mind those they rather irrationally say we should be signing.

 

It gets even more irrational, when not content on questioning the quality of what we already have, it gets pointed out that we also lack quantity (depth to the squad). Just maybe we should turn it on the head and occasionally query not so much the quality of our support but the true depth of our fanbase.

i fully take your point that we are a small club in terms of attendances.

but i - and i beleive im am not alone in this - renewed my season ticket duem to the pre-season promises of messrs beattie, patterson and archibald that we would be in the position to sign a 'better class of player...'

this did not happen - would a mair/piccolo centre-back pairing fare any worse than balatoni/muirhead? - which is why my season ticket seat may be empty for some time to come...