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Where Have All The Fans Gone


Lenziejag
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For me the club has to go along the lines of offering a match day "experience" to fans, as well as cutting prices at the gate (even just slightly).

The Braehead Clan, and a while ago, The Scottish Claymores managed to get it right in offering fans a bit more than just a match to watch. I'm not suggesting cheerleaders or t-shirt cannons because they just don't fly in this country.

Improving the bar in Firhill would be a good start. Don't get me wrong, the place is clean enough, but it just comes over very cafeteria and sterile like. Some Jaggy stuff on the walls wouldn't go a miss.

PTFC should also be at the absolute forefront in pushing legislation forward to enjoy alcohol at Scottish games again. The rest of Scottish football shouldn’t suffer for the ignorance of just two teams in this country!

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For me the club has to go along the lines of offering a match day "experience" to fans, as well as cutting prices at the gate (even just slightly). The Braehead Clan, and a while ago, The Scottish Claymores managed to get it right in offering fans a bit more than just a match to watch. I'm not suggesting cheerleaders or t-shirt cannons because they just don't fly in this country. Improving the bar in Firhill would be a good start. Don't get me wrong, the place is clean enough, but it just comes over very cafeteria and sterile like. Some Jaggy stuff on the walls wouldn't go a miss. PTFC should also be at the absolute forefront in pushing legislation forward to enjoy alcohol at Scottish games again. The rest of Scottish football shouldn’t suffer for the ignorance of just two teams in this country!

I'm in complete agreement with you here, and I think improving the bar is a good way to start, trying to make a trip to the football more than about the ninety minutes. It's easy to point to sports like hockey and American football as they have frequent breaks in play during which they were almost forced to keep the audiences attention. It's much harder to point to football clubs which have successfully done so. I'm not saying we should simply wait for others to innovate but there's likely good reason so many clubs are trying to solve the same problem. Does anyone know how well St Mirren's fan zone attempt went the other week?

 

I know it's easy to blame the weather but one of the best football experiences I've had from a "day out" point of view was at FC Zurich. The streets leading up to the ground had lots of stalls selling beer and sausages, plenty of people milling around having fun. I wonder how many would have been partaking had it been 5 degrees instead of 25 though. I had a similar experience whilst watching the majestic red and yellow of Birkirkara in Malta. Birkirkara songs blasted on to the main street from the front of their social club (against regulations here, of course), beer and food served at discount prices and red and yellow banners all over the place. Again, good weather was involved.

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That's part of the problem. With all the added costs, going to see Thistle could easily work at at around £40 for the day, of which less than half goes to the club if you assume we pay tax bills on time. Dropping the ticket price to £15 will cut Thistle's income by 32% but the cost of the day out by only 18%. And for drop in ticket prices of 32% you need an attendance increase of 47% to keep the same ticket income.

 

Would dropping prices to £15 get over 5,000 coming on a regular basis? Lowering prices might get more folk along initially, but how many would keep coming back? How many people are sat at home wishing they had an extra fiver so they could sit in January weather to watch Scottish football? It would be interesting to what percentages of our fans are ST holders, non ST but go to every game, 99-70% attendees, 70-30% attendees and 30% and less attendees. That would give us more idea of where to start focusing our attempts to increase attendances.

 

Comparing ourselves to England, Germany or even France (I'm paying less than £20 to see Marseille in a few days) is a waste of time. Ticket revenues are a much smaller slice of their pies. We should be comparing like with like. Is there anything clubs in Belgium, Denmark, Austria or similar are doing that we should be looking into?

Advertising the club better and pushing the incentives on offer to attract folk to Firhill

Getting folk to go in the first place might encourage them to go back on a regular basis if it's an enjoyable experience and value for money.

It's a tough one for any club getting supporters back to the games in big numbers, but something needs to be done and a pricing structure set across the board at all clubs at an affordable level for most folk would be a good start..

Edited by billko
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There are loads of incentives you could apply to try and get supporters up to the ground and even spend money at the ground. How about a ticket at £25 that includes 2 pints before or after the game and a pie at half time and a guarantee that two players will be there for 45 minutes after the game Would get supporters into the bar at the ground and they might just spend some more time and money at the bar, especially after a good result. £24 for a match day ticket/programme and a pie. The club need to start coming up with ideas to tempt folk back to the ground.

Edited by Lindau
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Here's an incentive. Hand out 10,000 free tickets every Saturday. I'd wager we wouldn't get one single full house. If you can't give it away...

 

I would wager that we would, if we were playing Celtic! We are not looking for full houses, just trying to get some lapsed supporters back!

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For me the club has to go along the lines of offering a match day "experience" to fans, as well as cutting prices at the gate (even just slightly).

The Braehead Clan, and a while ago, The Scottish Claymores managed to get it right in offering fans a bit more than just a match to watch. I'm not suggesting cheerleaders or t-shirt cannons because they just don't fly in this country.

Improving the bar in Firhill would be a good start. Don't get me wrong, the place is clean enough, but it just comes over very cafeteria and sterile like. Some Jaggy stuff on the walls wouldn't go a miss.

PTFC should also be at the absolute forefront in pushing legislation forward to enjoy alcohol at Scottish games again. The rest of Scottish football shouldn’t suffer for the ignorance of just two teams in this country!

 

Not sure the last time you were in the Aitken Suite, but the last couple of home games it has been the busiest it has been all season, particularly with away supporters.

I am afraid I don't get the clamour to have alcohol for sale at the ground. Would that not just make the day more expensive ?

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I've said this before and apologies if it's already been debated on this thread - but one way PTFC completely fall down is the club's complete lack of any presence (posters, gear in shops etc) in the city centre, the west end - which should be our heartland - and specifically at Glasgow Uni, which has a large potential audience (e.g. people from elsewhere who may have no Glasgow club allegiance but may become lifelong fans), refreshed every academic year, of students who have moved to Glasgow.

 

As far as I can tell, no effort is made whatsoever and if you walked down Byres Rd or studied at the university you would have no idea that there was a premier league football team playing every 2nd week in walking distance from Byres rd unless an existing fan told you/talked you into coming along. We have an extremely low media profile and in my opinion, only word of mouth is getting folk along. The fact that the club shop is in a remote industrial estate rather than on a high street can't help either...

 

I do think weather, full ticket prices and football on TV are all highly relevant as folk have said - but if you want to drive up numbers, you need to attempt proper marketing and put some money behind it. We let students in at a discount, but do many students know that? Are they being tempted into giving Firhill a try by any kind of campaign?

 

Terrific post, Colin. The club, IMO, should be doing a lot more to market itself, particular in the local area. It is a hindrance, in my opinion, that the club shop is located on an out of town industrial estate when there are plenty of empty retail premises in the west end. Do we even have a stall at the west end festival any more?

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Terrific post, Colin. The club, IMO, should be doing a lot more to market itself, particular in the local area. It is a hindrance, in my opinion, that the club shop is located on an out of town industrial estate when there are plenty of empty retail premises in the west end. Do we even have a stall at the west end festival any more?

 

Hold the bus!

 

Can the folk who are claiming the geography of our club shop is having an adverse effect on our Saturday attendance expand on this groundbreaking news!

 

When there's a shop at the ground...

 

clarify how many fans they think have stopped going to firhill because the new shop is a 15 minute walk away from the old one at greaves.

 

Guy, can you define "out of town"

 

It has a G4 post code.

 

Offers free parking.

Is a 15 minute walk from Greaves.

Less than a mile from Cowcaddens underground.

7 minute drive from firhill.

 

 

Does anyone seriously think the club are sitting scratching their heads thinking, guys crowds are down! Do you think it's because from Monday to Friday, some folk have to walk 15 minutes more to get to the shop?

 

 

 

 

Edited by potty trained
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Hold the bus!

 

Can the folk who are claiming the geography of our club shop is having an adverse effect on our Saturday attendance expand on this groundbreaking news!

 

When there's a shop at the ground...

 

clarify how many fans they think have stopped going to firhill because the new shop is a 15 minute walk away from the old one at greaves.

 

Guy, can you define "out of town"

 

It has a G4 post code.

 

Offers free parking.

Is a 15 minute walk from Greaves.

Less than a mile from Cowcaddens underground.

7 minute drive from firhill.

 

 

Does anyone seriously think the club are sitting scratching their heads thinking, guys crowds are down! Do you think it's because from Monday to Friday, some folk have to walk 15 minutes more to get to the shop?

 

Okay, maybe 'out of town' is stretching it a bit, and it is great that there is parking near the shop - providing, that is, you are able to drive. But I still think a shop on, say, Byres Rd, Maryhill Rd, Great Western Rd or in the city would be preferable. And yes, I accept there is a club shop at Firhill itself - but it usually only opens when there is a match on! A club shop in a more central location would promote the club far better, in my view.

 

There are obviously far more factors behind the crowds being down than the location of the club shop. However, it is late and I am not going to explore them now.

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Hold the bus!

 

Can the folk who are claiming the geography of our club shop is having an adverse effect on our Saturday attendance expand on this groundbreaking news!

 

When there's a shop at the ground...

 

clarify how many fans they think have stopped going to firhill because the new shop is a 15 minute walk away from the old one at greaves.

 

Guy, can you define "out of town"

 

It has a G4 post code.

 

Offers free parking.

Is a 15 minute walk from Greaves.

Less than a mile from Cowcaddens underground.

7 minute drive from firhill.

 

 

Does anyone seriously think the club are sitting scratching their heads thinking, guys crowds are down! Do you think it's because from Monday to Friday, some folk have to walk 15 minutes more to get to the shop?

 

Have you been to the "club shop"? I have and it's in a pretty grim setting, fair enough if that's where you work, but it's hardly an inviting retail experience!

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This is just a general observation, as I'm purely a pub watcher when it comes to English Premiership games, but from what I've witnessed the quality factor there has dropped dramatically. If so, and a random ask around me emphatically agreed, why then, when our (PTFC) quality has increased significantly over the last few seasons, are we doing so poorly at the gate? Clearly TV telly has an adverse effect on attendances but at the same time I'd suggest interest in TV football ain't as high as it once was. So maybe we over emphasise the importance, or perhaps more correctly the attraction of football in general. If that be the case then marginal improvement in our attendances would be a more realistic target. And from a selfish Jags fan angle we've got to find a way where we can maximise turnover and hope our rivals can't follow suit. A unilateral lowering of our pay at the gate and ST prices would be suicidal. Tricky?

 

I agree that the quality of English PL games has gone down significantly in the last few years, however it doesn't appear to have waned any viewing figures (as far as I know) or interest generally in it, and that's due to the media circus that surrounds it and Sky's coverage and relentless advertising of it which maintains interest in nothing games and what attracts people to watch them.

 

Think this proves that Thistle should be making more of an attempt to advertise games, obviously I don't mean go overkill like Sky do, since they have the resources to do so, but as far as I'm concerned there is zero effort from the club to advertise and maximise attendances at games, outwith their own social media outlets, which hardly will reach out to 'new' or 'neutral' supporters. The Big Thank You for the United game was a great incentive, and I get that was aimed at "thanking" existing supporters, but I feel the club missed a trick on not advertising this more widespread in order to try and attract folk who might not have gone to the game to come along. Paying an extra fiver to have a drink and soup and a sandwich before the game might've ended up getting more people through the gate, which means more £22 admission fees. Feel that the club need to expand on their advertising and reach out further than just existing fans on social media.

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Have you been to the "club shop"? I have and it's in a pretty grim setting, fair enough if that's where you work, but it's hardly an inviting retail experience!

 

I'm not disputing that. What I'm disputing is the suggestion that it's location has seen folk not attend our games.

 

Or that it's location has had an effect on us being unable to market ourselves, that suggests that Greaves, our only real previous city centre "presence" hAd some quantifiable/noticeable effect on our attendance.

 

It didn't, it just made it easier than previously, for thistle fans to buy thistle stuff.

Edited by potty trained
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I'm not disputing that. What I'm disputing is the suggestion that it's location has seen folk not attend our games.

 

Fair enough PT, take your point, it's like chalk and cheese compared to greaves though!

 

I had to ask for directions as I don't know Port Dundas, just over the bridge, you can't miss it...

 

Port_Dundas_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1171361.jpg

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clarify how many fans they think have stopped going to firhill because the new shop is a 15 minute walk away from the old one at greaves.

 

Guy, can you define "out of town"

 

It has a G4 post code.

 

 

I hear what you're saying about it being convenient for Jags fans (and I think we've debated the merits of the location before). My point is that no-one - not a single person - will ever pass by that shop or see Thistle gear and buy it (or be reminded that we exist) while our main outlets are at the stadium - where no one goes except on a match day - and in a location which may be close to town as the crow flies, but is actually in an industrial unit in an area resembling a Taggart set. Our profile in the city and the west end is therefore pretty close to Absolute Zero. We may as well not exist as far as the general public - and newcomers like tourists and students - are concerned. If you don't think that plays even a small part in restricting club/fanbase growth (again, I go back to selling to students) then fair enough. My main point is that we really, really need to be pushing Thistle more among the very large student population who do have money to burn (OK, it's student loan money to them, but it's cash to us!!).

 

Most people will struggle to sell an invisible, non-marketed product, leaving aside questions of match day experience, value, etc., which are also ofc very important.

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I regularly checked in at Greaves to look at what Thistle items were on display. I'm sure that some items were bought by people who weren't even Thistle fans, especially in the early days when there was some really good leisurewear. I've never even been to the new place, and probably never will go there; it's a daft place for the club's shop to be.

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I regularly checked in at Greaves to look at what Thistle items were on display. I'm sure that some items were bought by people who weren't even Thistle fans, especially in the early days when there was some really good leisurewear. I've never even been to the new place, and probably never will go there; it's a daft place for the club's shop to be.

 

Exactly. I went to the new "shop" once and won't be back; it's such a miserable experience I now just get Jags stuff online when I want it. It may not affect whether the current fanbase choose to attend games or not, but I really think it affects the (already slim) chance we have of reaching new fans. If we don't do that through better (or indeed any) general marketing and a better presence in Glasgow, then attendances will likely continue to slide.

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What the actual shop offers is for another thread either in stock or shopping experience is for another thread.

 

But anyone who thinks that having a tailors dummy in a window, wearing a thistle strip influenced an increase in our fanbase when greaves took over. And as such the TTL deal has influenced a decrease in our fanbase, is quite frankly looking for reasons that aren't there!

 

 

I would be amazed if you asked everyone in our fanbase, how did you come to watching Thistle, and even one reply given was:

 

Well, I walked down Sauchihall Street and saw a Thistle strip in Greaves... And here I am.

 

It's a romantic notion, but rather far fetched!

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What the actual shop offers is for another thread either in stock or shopping experience is for another thread.

 

But anyone who thinks that having a tailors dummy in a window, wearing a thistle strip influenced an increase in our fanbase when greaves took over. And as such the TTL deal has influenced a decrease in our fanbase, is quite frankly looking for reasons that aren't there!

 

 

I would be amazed if you asked everyone in our fanbase, how did you come to watching Thistle, and even one reply given was:

 

Well, I walked down Sauchihall Street and saw a Thistle strip in Greaves... And here I am.

 

It's a romantic notion, but rather far fetched!

 

Agreed that the shop should be a separate discussion. It was one small point in my post above which focused on the apparent invisibility of PTFC in the west end, at Glasgow Uni, and in the city centre.

 

You can exaggerate the point I'm making about a retail presence being a positive thing in order to ridicule it if you like, but do you really disagree that PTFC's profile is very, very low in and around Glasgow, and in particular in the west end? This is where hundreds/000s of new fans (people new to Glasgow, who may or may not settle here after studying) arrive each year, most of whom are probably oblivious regarding where our stadium even is, i.e. closer than they think.

 

All I am saying is that we could perhaps make some effort (and yes, spend some money) marketing ourselves around town - e.g. posters highlighting that students get in cheaply. I don't currently work or study at Glasgow U but it's never been the case that we've advertised there when I have been there in either capacity. It sounds cheesy but some retro-style visuals with slogans about Firhill for Thrills, Maryhill Magyars etc., might get some new folk along. We actually have a very good brand - non-sectarian, free-flowing football (which we've actually lived up to in recent seasons), family atmos,and so on. We do the square root of f-all with it.

 

I am banging on about the student angle because from my experience, they are a sector likely to bring along friends in a group for a day out - also they don't (all) have Old Firm pre-programming, and don't have as many family commitments as confirmed older fans.

 

It's just an idea/angle I think is worth exploring. A shop on an actual street in the west end would help in terms of profile, but it's not the main point I am making. Feel free to continue to ignore the student market/visibility points though, PT.

Edited by ColinKelvin
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Agreed that the shop should be a separate discussion. It was one small point in my post above which focused on the apparent invisibility of PTFC in the west end, at Glasgow Uni, and in the city centre.

 

You can exaggerate the point I'm making about a retail presence being a positive thing in order to ridicule it if you like, but do you really disagree that PTFC's profile is very, very low in and around Glasgow, and in particular in the west end? This is where hundreds/000s of new fans (people new to Glasgow, who may or may not settle here after studying) arrive each year, most of whom are probably oblivious regarding where our stadium even is, i.e. closer than they think.

 

All I am saying is that we could perhaps make some effort (and yes, spend some money) marketing ourselves around town - e.g. posters highlighting that students get in cheaply. I don't currently work or study at Glasgow U but it's never been the case that we've advertised there when I have been there in either capacity. It sounds cheesy but some retro-style visuals with slogans about Firhill for Thrills, Maryhill Magyars etc., might get some new folk along. We actually have a very good brand - non-sectarian, free-flowing football (which we've actually lived up to in recent seasons), family atmos,and so on.

 

I am banging on about the student angle because from my experience, they are a sector likely to bring along friends in a group for a day out - also they don't (all) have Old Firm pre-programming, and don't have as many family commitments as confirmed older fans.

 

It's just an idea/angle I think is worth exploring. A shop on an actual street in the west end would help in terms of profile, but it's not the main point I am making. Feel free to continue to ignore the student market/visibility points though, PT.

 

I don't disagree with what you are saying in that regard.

 

What I disagree with is that having or not having an outlet selling our strip in glasgow City centre had an effect on our numbers in any noticeable amount either in a positive or negative manner.

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I think it might be an idea to have a 'Bring a friend to Firhill' day, just once a season and a game like Ross County where the crowds will be lower, where two get in for one. Perhaps ST holders could get a ticket sent out to them and maybe we could bring along some of the old guys or even new people to Firhill.

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state funding of season tickets - means it's cheaper to see B.Munich and B.Dortmund for the season etc than it is to see the Jags.

 

a good european example a few years back was that motherwell drew some french team in the UEFA/Europa cup - the french lot were letting people in for 4 euros and a family of 4 ticket was a tenner resulting in a full house of about 16000 - whilst at fir park for the return leg it was >£20 per adult resulting in the usual more empty seats than people scenario

 

nae fitba on the telly would help - as would a beer at the game and some warmer temperatures through summer

 

Indeed....in other words you can do this that will increase attendances despite live football on tv

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I don't disagree with what you are saying in that regard.

 

What I disagree with is that having or not having an outlet selling our strip in glasgow City centre had an effect on our numbers in any noticeable amount either in a positive or negative manner.

 

...and the same argument goes for making the Aitken Suite a more attractive a pre match venue. Even if it was the best option in the area, given everybody wants to use it at the same time, I doubt you could increase the clientele by much more than thirty or so folk, most of whom would've been going to the game in any case.

That's not to belittle the idea of making the place as attractive as possible to maximise usage. Likewise no longer having a High St venue to promote PTFC merchandise could in theory have an adverse effect on attendance but I'd suggest only marginal. A relative when in the city might on impulse buy a youngster a Jags top/T shirt and as a result turn the youngster into a lifelong Jags fan. Exposure to the brand and all that.

 

Point I'm trying to make is to significantly increase attendance AND gate receipts the Club would have to come up with some major initiative. At the same time all the marginal improvements should be in place if only to protect current level of attendance. I'll be misquoting here (tho' it's possibly apocryphal anyway) but Henry Ford said that he was aware that 95% of the money he spent on marketing was a waste. He just didn't know which 5% wasn't.

 

btw We're playing St Johnstone on Saturday. Of all the club bars I've been in I think the one at McDiarmid is about the best. Good use of space, prompt efficient bar service, pie and pint special offer, team sheets handed out etc. I'm not qualified to know if the Aitken Suite these days measures up to the likes of that. If not maybe something to be learned.

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I hear what you're saying about it being convenient for Jags fans (and I think we've debated the merits of the location before). My point is that no-one - not a single person - will ever pass by that shop or see Thistle gear and buy it (or be reminded that we exist) while our main outlets are at the stadium - where no one goes except on a match day - and in a location which may be close to town as the crow flies, but is actually in an industrial unit in an area resembling a Taggart set. Our profile in the city and the west end is therefore pretty close to Absolute Zero. We may as well not exist as far as the general public - and newcomers like tourists and students - are concerned. If you don't think that plays even a small part in restricting club/fanbase growth (again, I go back to selling to students) then fair enough. My main point is that we really, really need to be pushing Thistle more among the very large student population who do have money to burn (OK, it's student loan money to them, but it's cash to us!!).

 

Most people will struggle to sell an invisible, non-marketed product, leaving aside questions of match day experience, value, etc., which are also ofc very important.

 

Having the club shop slap bang in the middle of the west end sends the message that this is Thistle country and raises the club's profile. A stall at the west end festival would do exactly the same thing. The Port Dundas shop, while not exactly 'out of town', is off the beaten track; most shoppers are unlikely to happen upon it by chance and only already committed Jags are likely to go out of their way to go there.

 

Like you say, though, it isn't all about the shop. Undoubtedly the club has missed a trick by not pushing the club more to the large student population. Students like free things (don't we all?!) so how about this for an idea: set up a stall during fresher's week with various Thistle goodies, including flyers that can be exchanged, one per person, for a ticket for one league game. Once they are in the ground they are likely to start spending money - on food, drink, programmes etc. - and in turn the club starts making money. With a bit of luck some of them might actually enjoy the experience and come back. :)

 

Edit to say a possible down side of this idea is that there may be crowd contol considerations, i.e. if the club doesn't know how many people are likely to turn up for each game it makes it harder to plan for stewarding, policing etc.

Edited by Guy Incognito
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People have suggested it before, but we need to be far more proactive with the local Universities, not only Glasgow, but Strathclyde and Caley. Every academic year, tens of thousands of out of town and international students flood to these establishments, and have no idea a professional football club with a good student discount plays next door.

I’m at Stirling University at the moment, and a few times over the past couple of years, Stirling Albion have dropped admission to a couple of quid for Stirling students. If a small club like this can push that initiative, surely Thistle can?

We already have links with Glasgow Uni’s Sport Science department, and I am sure a lot of sports students would find it of interest coming along to the games every now and then if they were fairly priced and suitably advertised.

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