Where Have All The Fans Gone

[La Scimmia Rossa]

I don't think the core Thistle support has eroded much since the days of Bertie Auld. Certainly, f you compare that against the backdrop of social and technological change, I 'd say we are doing well. There's much more to do now for the whole family-sporting and non sporting, in better conditions, at a cheaper cost.

 

Similarly, for those without families, as has been said there is a load of football that can be watched live on TV. More than that we are competing with a whole host of live sporting events.

 

We have had a bad run of fixtures this season compared to last year. Unfashionable clubs with small supports. That affects the total and the Thistle support.

 

Rather than being fixated on those who don't attend, we should be improving the experience for those who do.

 

Personally i think it's insanity not to have a winter break and summer football.

[gianlucatoni]

How do you explain attendances in Germany ?

 

state funding of season tickets - means it's cheaper to see B.Munich and B.Dortmund for the season etc than it is to see the Jags.

 

a good european example a few years back was that motherwell drew some french team in the UEFA/Europa cup - the french lot were letting people in for 4 euros and a family of 4 ticket was a tenner resulting in a full house of about 16000 - whilst at fir park for the return leg it was >£20 per adult resulting in the usual more empty seats than people scenario

 

nae fitba on the telly would help - as would a beer at the game and some warmer temperatures through summer

Edited January 11, 2015 by gianlucatoni

[Mad Mull Jag]

We have a core support fo 2-3k and it has remained at that level for 30 years or so.

 

Sky tv has killed the small leagues in europe as people can sit in the comfort of their home/pub and watch live football from 12 on a saturday till 9pm and the same on sunday and every night of the week. Why would someone with a slight interest in thistle get out their house and pay £22 to watch one game when £50 gets you a full month of sky football. Live football has become ingrained in the culture to the detriment of attending games.

 

Cost to be honest isnt a massive issue as £15/£18 instead of £22 isnt going to persuaed many more to go to a game.

 

Quality of product on the park can play a big part in attendances but this where the media in Scotland fail the sport, we are constantly reminded that it is crap and rotten. It is compared to the EPL with about £1bn of TV rights floating around , the media need to talk up the game and get onboard with the clubs, SPFL, SFA etc to do this and market this to the latent fans.

 

Summer football/Winter break are a no brainer who wants to drag themselves and the wife/kids etc to freezing cold grounds in wet and windy days to watch a game of football, if it was drier and slightly warmer would people be more inclined to attend plus the conditions on the park would be better so hopefully a better game?

[Norgethistle]

One of the big problems is kids are growing up watching and supporting Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real etc, cause that is what is seen on the telly every night, they see the razzmatazz of big stadiums, silky players seamlessly and professionally portrayed on Sky from 40 odd cameras in the comfort of their own homes.

When they go to a real game, they are disappointed at the atmosphere, the quality, the fact its cold, their is no Ronaldo or Messi, and they can't see the goals and replays from various angles......... it doesn't add up to what they believe (or have been force fed) a football game is.

From a parents point of view taking kids to a game they aren't that interested in costs money, lots of, even with kids for free they need to get there, have food, a programme etc etc...... then they are bored and cold. The parents either percevere when the kids would rather be watching a film or softplay or something else, or they end up giving in taking them there and get out the habit of going.

Sky have killed the game, offering so much cash to EPL that the wages have hiked to a stupid level, driving up the costs down south for the fans and we have tried to compete to an extent to attract players, a footballers wage in the Premiership is grossly over an average wage in Scotland........ it never used to be.

SPL used to be able to attract mid-championship players (or above) as the wages were compatible, not now most 1st team championship players will be over £7k a week with some way higher. The grounds may be busy down south, but if you listen to the "real" fans they believe the experience is poor, too expensive, grounds filled with tourists more interested in taking pictures and buying merchandise than getting behind the team, its becoming a disney land experience, and the downfall will come soon

[kni]

One of the big problems is kids are growing up watching and supporting Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real etc, cause that is what is seen on the telly every night, they see the razzmatazz of big stadiums, silky players seamlessly and professionally portrayed on Sky from 40 odd cameras in the comfort of their own homes.

When they go to a real game, they are disappointed at the atmosphere, the quality, the fact its cold, their is no Ronaldo or Messi, and they can't see the goals and replays from various angles......... it doesn't add up to what they believe (or have been force fed) a football game is.

 

That's a problem that affects many English clubs too, especially those in the lower leagues. The big Premiership clubs, especially Man Utd and Liverpool, have supporters in towns and cities throughout England. It's similar to the Ugly Sisters problem that we have.

[billko]

We have a core support fo 2-3k and it has remained at that level for 30 years or so.

 

Sky tv has killed the small leagues in europe as people can sit in the comfort of their home/pub and watch live football from 12 on a saturday till 9pm and the same on sunday and every night of the week. Why would someone with a slight interest in thistle get out their house and pay £22 to watch one game when £50 gets you a full month of sky football. Live football has become ingrained in the culture to the detriment of attending games.

 

Cost to be honest isnt a massive issue as £15/£18 instead of £22 isnt going to persuaed many more to go to a game.

 

Quality of product on the park can play a big part in attendances but this where the media in Scotland fail the sport, we are constantly reminded that it is crap and rotten. It is compared to the EPL with about £1bn of TV rights floating around , the media need to talk up the game and get onboard with the clubs, SPFL, SFA etc to do this and market this to the latent fans.

 

Summer football/Winter break are a no brainer who wants to drag themselves and the wife/kids etc to freezing cold grounds in wet and windy days to watch a game of football, if it was drier and slightly warmer would people be more inclined to attend plus the conditions on the park would be better so hopefully a better game?

I agree with almost all of this but think it would make a difference cutting the price from £22 to £15 for a game

When you add the other costs of travel, food, beverages, etc to the £22 ticket price, it makes going to football an expensive day out.

Me and the wife going to Firhill for £30 sounds a good bit better than £44 does, and it's the folk like my wife who isn't really that into the football question these high prices.

[kni]

The lack of Jags coverage on Sportscene is also a factor. We need more coverage to attract fans to our games. Sportsmen is free advertising for the clubs, their sponsors and advertisers. More coverage would therefore help to increase our commercial income too.

 

The BBC seems to be deliberately minimising our coverage. It is actively promoting Sevco at our expense. A stronger Thistle is the last thing that they want. As television licence (i.e. tax) payers, we should be protesting to the BBC. An official TAG campaign, possibly in partnership with other clubs, would help.

[AndyMac]

The lack of Jags coverage on Sportscene is also a factor. We need more coverage to attract fans to our games. Sportsmen is free advertising for the clubs, their sponsors and advertisers. More coverage would therefore help to increase our commercial income too.

 

The BBC seems to be deliberately minimising our coverage. It is actively promoting Sevco at our expense. A stronger Thistle is the last thing that they want. As television licence (i.e. tax) payers, we should be protesting to the BBC. An official TAG campaign, possibly in partnership with other clubs, would help.

 

The BBC is as bent as a nine bob note!

[yoda-jag]

we often hear about the diminishing value of a season ticket.

 

one way to combat that imo, is to get ALL clubs to offer discounted entry to away supporters with season tickets.

 

as it is, a st for thistle works out not far off £15 per game.

 

if clubs adopted the reciprocal arrangement, i would be extremely surprised if clubs did not see an increase in their st sales, and similarly did not see a rise in away supports, through this proposal.

 

it would likely result in a rise in attendances overall, and an improvement in atmospheres. it wouldn't solve all scottish footballs troubles, but it would be imo a good starting point, from which foundations, other issues can be addressed and improved with increased confidence.

[kni]

Has the club thought about offering discounted tickets to Maryhill residents? It could help build up local and community support.

[Norgethistle]

How about the SFA block out all games that are broadcast when ANY Scottish league or cup games are being played

[Blues Brother]

The lack of Jags coverage on Sportscene is also a factor. We need more coverage to attract fans to our games. Sportsmen is free advertising for the clubs, their sponsors and advertisers. More coverage would therefore help to increase our commercial income too. The BBC seems to be deliberately minimising our coverage. It is actively promoting Sevco at our expense. A stronger Thistle is the last thing that they want. As television licence (i.e. tax) payers, we should be protesting to the BBC. An official TAG campaign, possibly in partnership with other clubs, would help.

 

That has echoes of last September all over it !

Ironic don't you think ?

[billko]

The lack of Jags coverage on Sportscene is also a factor. We need more coverage to attract fans to our games. Sportsmen is free advertising for the clubs, their sponsors and advertisers. More coverage would therefore help to increase our commercial income too.

 

The BBC seems to be deliberately minimising our coverage. It is actively promoting Sevco at our expense. A stronger Thistle is the last thing that they want. As television licence (i.e. tax) payers, we should be protesting to the BBC. An official TAG campaign, possibly in partnership with other clubs, would help.

 

Sounds like paranoia to me and funny that many Rangers fans are just as paraniod with regards the BBC having an agenda against Rangers.

 

That's football fans for you

 

The BBC "No one likes us we don't care"

[Barney Rubble]

How about the SFA block out all games that are broadcast when ANY Scottish league or cup games are being played

 

Didn't we vote to be a region and not a nation?

[kni]

Sounds like paranoia to me and funny that many Rangers fans are just as paraniod with regards the BBC having an agenda against Rangers. That's football fans for you The BBC "No one likes us we don't care"

 

The BBC is obsessed with Old Firm, especially Sevco's continual financial crises which are more entertaining than a soap opera. It's the Sevconians who are naturally paranoid, especially those who bought shares in the IPO and faced being fleeced again by the board and the new "investors". No wonder that they are staying away from Ibrox but they can, of course, rely on the broadcasters to cover the games.

 

Typically, in the next round of the Scottish Cup, the BBC's live game features two Championship sides (Sevco and Raith) rather than the two all Premiership tie. Sky, as usual, chose the Celtic tie as its live game. With Sky, you can always cancel your subscription but everyone is forced by law to pay for the BBC's crap.

Edited January 11, 2015 by kni

[La Scimmia Rossa]

There's no way SPFL football can sustain 15 quid entry, unless the government is going to subsidise it further. The thought of that fills me with dread. If Thistle go alone in cutting entrance fees then we harm ourselves competitively.

 

I did the rough numbers on a another thread. For a 5 quid cut in entrance fee you need to attract an extra 500 home fans to every game over the course of the whole season. It's just not happening.

 

We need to concentrate on what we have. Make it better. Have inventive ideas around the match day experience. Then word of mouth takes over. That said, if the team are rotten, we can forget it.

[Metz]

Very simplistic I know but there is obviously a number of Thistle minded support out there, 9000 at the Morton game, the ICT cup game etc etc The reality is that if you are a Thistle fan then take the responsibility on yourself and get to the game, better still buy a season ticket, merchandise etc don't look for someone else to do it contribute as best as you can.

The gimmicks really don't work, the product on the park is as good as it has been for many a long year even during the promotion winning season, the difference is we are not winning often enough at home and the fair weathered amongst us only turn up if there is a chance of glory. Blame the OF as much as you like one of them aren't even in our league and the other has half a stadium in my view they don't even figure in the problem.

Let's look closer to home and as I indicated earlier sort our own house out by getting along more often.

[kni]

Didn't we vote to be a region and not a nation?

 

So we were not a nation before the vote? That's news to me! We still have national teams.

 

Back to the subject that Norgethistle raised, a blackout like he suggests could be worth a try.

 

At the very least, there should be no live televised games just before or just after the 3pm Saturday matches.

[yokerjag]

live matches on the telly at the same time isn't really a factor for me. £22 into a game is

[kni]

Very simplistic I know but there is obviously a number of Thistle minded support out there, 9000 at the Morton game, the ICT cup game etc etc The reality is that if you are a Thistle fan then take the responsibility on yourself and get to the game, better still buy a season ticket, merchandise etc don't look for someone else to do it contribute as best as you can. The gimmicks really don't work, the product on the park is as good as it has been for many a long year even during the promotion winning season, the difference is we are not winning often enough at home and the fair weathered amongst us only turn up if there is a chance of glory. Blame the OF as much as you like one of them aren't even in our league and the other has half a stadium in my view they don't even figure in the problem. Let's look closer to home and as I indicated earlier sort our own house out by getting along more often.

 

Some good points there. The club has to be pro-active and sell directly to former customers, e.g. lapsed season ticket holders. It could offer them a choice of packages that include games, hospitality, merchandise etc. Direct mail, including a personal letter from the manager, is one option. Personal phone calls is another possibility and the callers could be current, or even former, players. At the very least, the club could find out why they are no longer attending games and address any problem issues.

[Diego]

I agree with almost all of this but think it would make a difference cutting the price from £22 to £15 for a game

When you add the other costs of travel, food, beverages, etc to the £22 ticket price, it makes going to football an expensive day out.

That's part of the problem. With all the added costs, going to see Thistle could easily work at at around £40 for the day, of which less than half goes to the club if you assume we pay tax bills on time. Dropping the ticket price to £15 will cut Thistle's income by 32% but the cost of the day out by only 18%. And for drop in ticket prices of 32% you need an attendance increase of 47% to keep the same ticket income.

 

Would dropping prices to £15 get over 5,000 coming on a regular basis? Lowering prices might get more folk along initially, but how many would keep coming back? How many people are sat at home wishing they had an extra fiver so they could sit in January weather to watch Scottish football? It would be interesting to what percentages of our fans are ST holders, non ST but go to every game, 99-70% attendees, 70-30% attendees and 30% and less attendees. That would give us more idea of where to start focusing our attempts to increase attendances.

 

Comparing ourselves to England, Germany or even France (I'm paying less than £20 to see Marseille in a few days) is a waste of time. Ticket revenues are a much smaller slice of their pies. We should be comparing like with like. Is there anything clubs in Belgium, Denmark, Austria or similar are doing that we should be looking into?

[Lindau]

Thistle increased adult prices this season by 10%. Don't know about anybody else, but I have not received a wage increase of more than 1% for the last 5 years. No matter what anyone else says, football is grossly overpriced in this country and it's the major reason for fans not going to matches.

[ColinKelvin]

I've said this before and apologies if it's already been debated on this thread - but one way PTFC completely fall down is the club's complete lack of any presence (posters, gear in shops etc) in the city centre, the west end - which should be our heartland - and specifically at Glasgow Uni, which has a large potential audience (e.g. people from elsewhere who may have no Glasgow club allegiance but may become lifelong fans), refreshed every academic year, of students who have moved to Glasgow.

 

As far as I can tell, no effort is made whatsoever and if you walked down Byres Rd or studied at the university you would have no idea that there was a premier league football team playing every 2nd week in walking distance from Byres rd unless an existing fan told you/talked you into coming along. We have an extremely low media profile and in my opinion, only word of mouth is getting folk along. The fact that the club shop is in a remote industrial estate rather than on a high street can't help either...

 

I do think weather, full ticket prices and football on TV are all highly relevant as folk have said - but if you want to drive up numbers, you need to attempt proper marketing and put some money behind it. We let students in at a discount, but do many students know that? Are they being tempted into giving Firhill a try by any kind of campaign?

[thebiglemon]

Thistle increased adult prices this season by 10%. Don't know about anybody else, but I have not received a wage increase of more than 1% for the last 5 years. No matter what anyone else says, football is grossly overpriced in this country and it's the major reason for fans not going to matches.

 

Totally agree. If the team is playing badly, the weather is crap or both (often the case following Jags for 44 years) then it's easy to say - f**k it I'll use that £22 for something else which will be less cold/wet/frustrating/emotionally draining

[lady-isobel-barnett]

This is just a general observation, as I'm purely a pub watcher when it comes to English Premiership games, but from what I've witnessed the quality factor there has dropped dramatically. If so, and a random ask around me emphatically agreed, why then, when our (PTFC) quality has increased significantly over the last few seasons, are we doing so poorly at the gate? Clearly TV telly has an adverse effect on attendances but at the same time I'd suggest interest in TV football ain't as high as it once was.

So maybe we over emphasise the importance, or perhaps more correctly the attraction of football in general. If that be the case then marginal improvement in our attendances would be a more realistic target. And from a selfish Jags fan angle we've got to find a way where we can maximise turnover and hope our rivals can't follow suit. A unilateral lowering of our pay at the gate and ST prices would be suicidal. Tricky?

Edited January 11, 2015 by lady-isobel-barnett