Scumdee

[Charlie Endell]

Caley 3-1 up. Should see us safe now.

Yes, for the first time in my puff I'm pleased to see Caledonian / John Hughes win.

[BowenBoys]

All credit to Conrad Balatoni. He's a Jag at heart

[Vaila Street]

Prepare for the first divvy!!!!

[Davie Thistle]

As I said I hope am wrong!

We'l see!

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Davie Thistle

[Fearchar]

I've really now lost patience with Welsh.

I think we've all cut him some slack after his terrible injury saga but he simply adds nothing to the team apart from maybe one classy pass per game.

The fact that his name seems to be first on the team sheet every week astounds me.

 

He is slow, instinctively turns back every time he gets the ball, and seems to think he has all the time in the world....

 

It looks as if Welsh is trying to imitate Paul Paton - constantly favouring his right foot. If you're distributing the ball from the centre of the park, you have to be able to use either foot, or the opposition will easily close out half of your team and force a square or back pass just by having someone on the awkward side. This makes his play both predictable and slow. It's not his fault his limitations are exposed, though: where is the training to put these things right? Some of the players work at fixing their own defects (Doolan and Elliott spring to mind) but others need to be helped and encouraged to do so. The comment has already been made, but it bears repeating: set pieces from Welsh are not working. We might as well not bother with corners, and just give bye kicks to the opposition.

 

When the midfield was in danger of being being overrun, Edwards was taken off. A complete rejig of the defence (bringing Frans on, moving Miller to right back and pushing Elliott into midfield) might have been possible, but at any rate Nesbitt was taken off much too late.

[Barney Rubble]

A depressing stat that may well be mentioned elsewhere. Dundee have only won three away league matches since the 1st Aug. All three were of course at Firhill.

 

Is that true? Put that alongside the fact (I believe) that we've not beaten them since we came up.............................

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

Hartley got his excuses in pre match about a "crippled" squad. But 6 of his starting 11 have had 29 starts this season. Only 3 of the thistle team could claim that at kick-off.

 

Dundee are where they are this season because they have a couple of decent goal scorers, Hemmings -21, Stewart - 9. Their defence is ok and granted there was maybe a couple of unfamiliar faces in yeasterday, but over the season the goals they score match those they concede.

 

We on the other hand, in the absence of a regular source of goals, rely heavily on strong defence. It has been changed about all season and it is a credit to our players they have maintained the meanest record on shipping goals outside the top 3.

 

Yesterday, we had a guy we signed as a striker, who in about 5 appearances this year has also been asked to play left wing, playing at right back. The two guys we really signed to cover the right back berth playing at both centre half and left back and with our most experience central defender out we had to ask our youngest to come back in after more than a month on the sidelines.

 

We were also missing probably our greatest home grown talent since Mo-Jo, Bannigan in the midfield , arguably our most consistent in factually our most used palyer in Booth, and probably the guy we have relied on most to save our bacon this season Cerny.

 

It wasn't our best performance, and there are still way to many needless, thoughtless, and TEAM mistakes. But generally we weren't outplayed. We aint Real Partick and they ain't Bayern Dundee.

 

On stats we lost by the odd goal, quick glance at the BBC stats confirms my suspicion we matched them for possession, shots, corners etc...

 

I don't like picking out individuals for blame. However, as it seems that sometimes that is what we do on here.... Long and short of it for me is ... Doolan 1 - Hemmings 2 .... but i aint gonna hold that against him.

 

 

Out of the bottom 6 teams, Dundee are the ones we've struggled with all season, the only ones we have not beaten or to have actually beaten us, and only once have they done that by more than the odd goal.

 

Given our form against the rest, "Onwards and upwards", is not simply the rallying call of a helpless optimist.

 

Next up ICT at home. They couldn't score against us up north in 180 mins of trying this year and last time out we beat them at firhill... well .... granted, maybe a little bit of romance here hoping for history repeating ... but ... it came off the back of a disappointing result v the dees, and started a nice we run of 4 straight wins. beating them at home then killie and DU away consecutively....

 

GAME ON.

 

Chin High CHEST OOT!!!!!

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

I've already made my point really ... and should probably know when to shut my mouth... because I know i'm only going to open the Pogba/Doolan can of worms .... but .....

 

Just learnt ( bbc stats) Hemmings is the second top scorer in the league, with more assists than anyone else in the charts till you scroll down to... oh!... whadeya know.... Greg Stewart!!! Maybe kinda makes you wonder which team is actually underachieving?

 

Crippled squad? .... oh my heart bleeds for ya Paul .... It's a tough and cruel game right enough when you only have the second top scorer in the league and your own team's second top scorer, the SPL's second top goal assist provider left to pick....

 

Wonder what wages they're on......?

Edited April 24, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[jlsarmy]

I've already made my point really ... and should probably know when to shut my mouth... because I know i'm only going to open the Pogba/Doolan can of worms .... but .....

 

Just learnt ( bbc stats) Hemmings is the second top scorer in the league, with more assists than anyone else in the charts till you scroll down to... oh!... whadeya know.... Greg Stewart!!! Maybe kinda makes you wonder which team is actually underachieving?

 

Crippled squad? .... oh my heart bleeds for ya Paul .... It's a tough and cruel game right enough when you only have the second top scorer in the league and your own team's second top scorer, the SPL's second top goal assist provider left to pick....

 

Wonder what wages they're on......?

That'll be the same Kane Hemmings we took on a pre season training camp and Archie deemed he wasn't good enough for us !!

 

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

That'll be the same Kane Hemmings we took on a pre season training camp and Archie deemed he wasn't good enough for us !!

 

I bloody knew it! ... i was just about to go for a bath ... but i cannae let that one slip...

 

So you are sure Archie thought he was shite, based on 18 goals for cowdenbeath and 3 for Barnsley, and told him to jog on, and it was nothing to do with us being flat broke that we couldn't match the punt taken by Dundee in offering better wages and a 3 year deal?

 

Fairy nuff.... After losing out on a player it's always best to say ... aye... he's brilliant, we're just a diddy club who can't compete for the best , rather than play it down and say , we might be able to do better.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

It looks as if Welsh is trying to imitate Paul Paton - constantly favouring his right foot. If you're distributing the ball from the centre of the park, you have to be able to use either foot, or the opposition will easily close out half of your team and force a square or back pass just by having someone on the awkward side. This makes his play both predictable and slow. It's not his fault his limitations are exposed, though: where is the training to put these things right? Some of the players work at fixing their own defects (Doolan and Elliott spring to mind) but others need to be helped and encouraged to do so. The comment has already been made, but it bears repeating: set pieces from Welsh are not working. We might as well not bother with corners, and just give bye kicks to the opposition.

 

When the midfield was in danger of being being overrun, Edwards was taken off. A complete rejig of the defence (bringing Frans on, moving Miller to right back and pushing Elliott into midfield) might have been possible, but at any rate Nesbitt was taken off much too late.

 

Nothing there I'd choose to argue with it's just my take is somewhat simpler. I doubt you'd disagree either.

When Doolan scored we were in the ascendancy almost bossing the game. Our failing was our inability to create enough scoring chances when we were on top. I don't really want to use stats to expand a point but I'll make an exception. We've averaged a measly one goal per home game all season and it was surely no surprise we failed to get a second once again yesterday.

Ok losing two very avoidable goals was disappointing but failure to capitalise when Dundee were on the ropes by creating scoring chances was in my mind the bigger of the two sins. That's tho' been our problem all along and I very much doubt any configuration of our squad yesterday would've cured this illness.

Edited April 24, 2016 by lady-isobel-barnett

[jlsarmy]

 

 

I bloody knew it! ... i was just about to go for a bath ... but i cannae let that one slip...

 

So you are sure Archie thought he was shite, based on 18 goals for cowdenbeath and 3 for Barnsley, and told him to jog on, and it was nothing to do with us being flat broke that we couldn't match the punt taken by Dundee in offering better wages and a 3 year deal?

 

Fairy nuff.... After losing out on a player it's always best to say ... aye... he's brilliant, we're just a diddy club who can't compete for the best , rather than play it down and say , we might be able to do better.

That's not what happened at all, we took him to a training camp at the army barracks down south to have a look at him as he wanted a move away from Cowdenbeath , Archie had a look at him and that was it , he went back to Cowdenbeath and won the Championship player of the year, got his move , didn't work out for him and he came back up the road but by that time Archie had put all his eggs in the Lyle Taylor basket.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I think I saw Hemmings play for us against Livingston and Arbroath. Didn't know he was training with us at Durham prior to that. Certainly didn't feature against Gateshead.

[Yellow & Redneck]

A major rethink in terms of personnel and tactics will need to be addressed over the summer. A grand total of 33 goals is quite frankly hopeless for a team whose manager targeted a top-6 place. And it isn't hard to see why: constant lone striker, high punted balls, lack of creativity and set-pieces that are completely useless without exception. Also a central partnership of defensive minded midfielder's like Welsh and Osman is going to significantly reduce any sort of flair coming through the middle of the park. Defensively we are okay (albeit shaky in recent weeks), but a robust backline doesn't encourage the crowds to turn up en masse!

Erskine coming back is encouraging, but we could still lose Bannigan, Lawless and Osman over the summer which would be a massive step backwards. SPFL looks a lot more competitive next season, so Archie really needs to get it right over the summer and address some of his own perplexing decisions.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

That's not what happened at all, we took him to a training camp at the army barracks down south to have a look at him as he wanted a move away from Cowdenbeath , Archie had a look at him and that was it , he went back to Cowdenbeath and won the Championship player of the year, got his move , didn't work out for him and he came back up the road but by that time Archie had put all his eggs in the Lyle Taylor basket.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

As I said , I had a bath run, so forgive me on not checking the detail 100% for fear of letting the water get cold.

 

Going by the time frame you set out, for Hemmings it wasn't a move away from Cowden he was trying to secure while at the barracks with our boys. He was only a their player for one year on a one year contract, season 13/14. It was his next contract after being let go by rangers as a player with a handful of first team appearances (mostly in the third division) and a promising couple of months with the Blue Brazil.

 

Maybe the "one that got away". We had a chance and didn't take it. Still say it's pretty harsh having a dig at the gaffer for how it probably went down.

 

Archie, would only have been about 6months into the job and finding his feet, preparing for our first season up. He must've seen potential or wouldn't have had him in. Ex ranger touting himself for the top flight, I wonder if his wage demands to us exceed what he might have in the end had to settle for at Cowdenbeath. He didn't shine, 18 goals for relegation bait team, until after we'd looked at him. He was picked up by an english league one side on a free transfer one year deal, at the same time we were to lose out on Lyle Taylor to an english league one side on wages, and returned after scoring 3 goals in 23 appearances to a 3 year deal with dungdee.

 

Archie deemed him not good enough? I doubt that gives the full picture.

Edited April 24, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[jlsarmy]

I think I saw Hemmings play for us against Livingston and Arbroath. Didn't know he was training with us at Durham prior to that. Certainly didn't feature against Gateshead.

I bow to your better memory , I couldn't even remember him playing for us against Livi and Arbroath , think he had been on loan at Cowdenbeath from Sevco and then got released by them , it certainly wasn't to do with money etc why we didn't sign him , maybe he didn't do enough to impress Archie.

Every manager wins some and loses some .

[jlsarmy]

 

 

As I said , I had a bath run, so forgive me on not checking the detail 100% for fear of letting the water get cold.

 

Going by the time frame you set out, for Hemmings it wasn't a move away from Cowden he was trying to secure while at the barracks with our boys. He was only a their player for one year on a one year contract, season 13/14. It was his next contract after being let go by rangers as a player with a handful of first team appearances (mostly in the third division) and a promising couple of months with the Blue Brazil.

 

Maybe the "one that got away". We had a chance and didn't take it. Still say it's pretty harsh having a dig at the gaffer for how it probably went down.

 

Archie, would only have been about 6months into the job and finding his feet, preparing for our first season up. He must've seen potential or wouldn't have had him in. Ex ranger touting himself for the top flight, I wonder if his wage demands to us exceed what he might have in the end had to settle for at Cowdenbeath. He didn't shine, 18 goals for relegation bait team, until after we'd looked at him. He was picked up by an english league one side on a free transfer one year deal, at the same time we were to lose out on Lyle Taylor to an english league one side on wages, and returned after scoring 3 goals in 23 appearances to a 3 year deal with dungdee.

 

Archie deemed him not good enough? I doubt that gives the full picture.

There was no dig at Archie, probably the main reason we didn't sign him was possibly we thought the step up to the SPFL at that time was too much for Hemmings as he had only played a few games on loan at Cowdenbeath from Rangers .

It wasn't what you conveyed in your post re 3 year deals and us being flat broke, still looks like the one who got away but maybe the timing was wrong.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I bow to your better memory , I couldn't even remember him playing for us against Livi and Arbroath , think he had been on loan at Cowdenbeath from Sevco and then got released by them , it certainly wasn't to do with money etc why we didn't sign him , maybe he didn't do enough to impress Archie.

Every manager wins some and loses some .

 

Hemmings didn't do anything wrong in his two cameo appearances. Looked decent enough in fact. Archie and Shaggy have always said a prospective signing has to both fit in with our style of play and fit in off the pitch. So with that in mind I'm not convinced he slipped thru the net. Worth minding that sevco got rid of him. Even allowing for their imbecile of a manager sevco were starting out in League Two. Also no full time club in Cowden's division back then were interested in signing Hemmings.

Of course there's no way of knowing if he'd have hit the ground running for us three seasons ago. There's not much evidence to suggest Hemmings would have. And, given our dependence on shortish contracts, had we signed him he'd most likely have moved on long before he became the player he is today.

[gianlucatoni]

I feel dirty saying this ... but I found Hemmings goal celebration at the Bing the highlight of the day.

 

I'm away to scrub myself with bleach.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

There was no dig at Archie, probably the main reason we didn't sign him was possibly we thought the step up to the SPFL at that time was too much for Hemmings as he had only played a few games on loan at Cowdenbeath from Rangers .

It wasn't what you conveyed in your post re 3 year deals and us being flat broke, still looks like the one who got away but maybe the timing was wrong.

 

"That'll be the same Kane Hemmings we took on a pre season training camp and Archie deemed he wasn't good enough for us !!" ...What were you trying to convey, if not some blame on the person you name with reference to us missing out on a signing?

 

Yeah ... I agree one "reason we didn't sign him was possibly we thought the step up to the SPFL at that time was too much for Hemmings". I suggested a possible other.

 

My posts regarding 3 year deals and wages convey the budgetary limitations and difficulties we have in competing and negotiating for the signatures of players with either proven or promising ability. Deals are a 2 way street.

 

The good lady IB has put it above, as is usual more eloquently and politely than I, to say perhaps Hemmings was viewed by our management as a potentially a great player but a bit a *****, needing to mature before he could be trusted with our payment, and the risk he'd have f**ked with our team's mojo too great.

 

Maybe it was he that was not impressed with the barracks more than the sergeants being unimpressed with the recruit?

[Fearchar]

Nothing there I'd choose to argue with it's just my take is somewhat simpler. I doubt you'd disagree either.

When Doolan scored we were in the ascendancy almost bossing the game. Our failing was our inability to create enough scoring chances when we were on top....

Ok losing two very avoidable goals was disappointing but failure to capitalise when Dundee were on the ropes by creating scoring chances was in my mind the bigger of the two sins. That's tho' been our problem all along and I very much doubt any configuration of our squad yesterday would've cured this illness.

The players are apparently still being instructed to supply Lyle Taylor with crosses and high balls into the box. Better through balls, particularly down the middle, would let Doolan thrive, instead of giving possession to opposition goalkeepers or centre backs.

[Lenziejag]

That's not what happened at all, we took him to a training camp at the army barracks down south to have a look at him as he wanted a move away from Cowdenbeath , Archie had a look at him and that was it , he went back to Cowdenbeath and won the Championship player of the year, got his move , didn't work out for him and he came back up the road but by that time Archie had put all his eggs in the Lyle Taylor basket.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

I also seem to remember some thoughts that he might be a disruptive influence in the dressing room ? Also, maybe he can only be effective when in the same team as Stewart.

[Lenziejag]

A major rethink in terms of personnel and tactics will need to be addressed over the summer. A grand total of 33 goals is quite frankly hopeless for a team whose manager targeted a top-6 place. And it isn't hard to see why: constant lone striker, high punted balls, lack of creativity and set-pieces that are completely useless without exception. Also a central partnership of defensive minded midfielder's like Welsh and Osman is going to significantly reduce any sort of flair coming through the middle of the park. Defensively we are okay (albeit shaky in recent weeks), but a robust backline doesn't encourage the crowds to turn up en masse!

Erskine coming back is encouraging, but we could still lose Bannigan, Lawless and Osman over the summer which would be a massive step backwards. SPFL looks a lot more competitive next season, so Archie really needs to get it right over the summer and address some of his own perplexing decisions.

 

I think the assessment is a bit harsh. Defending is just as important as attacking. We lost late goals in 2 of the games vs Dundee pre split. Holding out in one of those would have resulted in at least a 3 point swing and a place in the top 6.

 

There has been much discussion previously on why crowds are low at Firhill. Not scoring enough goals has been put forward as a possible reason - although I think our crowds are higher this season than last.

 

I think you are putting a lot of the onus on Archie replacing possibly 3 key players. These 3 will probably only move on because they can get more money elsewhere. It follows,then, that we are unlikely to be able to replace with the same quality.