Fawlty Towers Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Was there any mention of the Supporters Federation last night? Seems as if that just ground to a halt after the club promised so much with it. I stopped going to the meetings when it was decided that some members votes would count for more than others. Ian, it was mentioned and basically this new trust is going to be the vehicle for fan engagement moving forward. Will post more about the meeting later tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) That's unarguable re the Club. It's also a fault for which they appear to accept responsibility. Tho' I know in previous occasions they've held their hands up mea culpa fashion they were quick last night to accept blame. The difference this time may be the inclusion and involvement of a director who has had a career within the communication industry. Even if the countless fans who have been (or feel like they've been) let down by the Club on previous occasions were to downgrade from cynical to sceptical it would be helpful . After last night I'm somewhere between sceptical and sanguine. No leap of faith but baby steps in the right direction, hopefully. The crucial point we must not forget and the one which PT raises is that the club have a "historical" record for at times letting the side down. While I think it right that the present board acknowledge the short-comings and offer an apology to the fans on behalf of the institution, we must be careful to give them fair chance in office and not hold them accountable for everything that has gone before. The boardroom is evolving and we should be careful who we now point fingers at or label as the prawn sandwich munchers, blazers or sheepskin coats. It would be concerning if the incumbent board dismissed the history, or long standing directors thought new ones brought a clean sheet for them to hid their previous imprudences behind. If they felt old mistakes were simply all wrong, and their new plans were right. Indeed it would be concerning if they dismissed the past and felt their was nothing to learn. It would be disrespectful and naive if they thought their predecessors mere simple incompetent numpties, and they now had all the right answers. For example, some past failings were genuinely good ideas put forward with best intention, but perhaps just over ambitious for our club to execute well at the time. The numpties at least left us something, however one may view it's state of repair, on which to build. I think occasionally we can all be guilty of being driven by the passion of wanting greatness for all things PTFC and forget where we are starting from. Fortunately, I perceive and air of genuine self analysis going on with the current board. A perhaps more sober, businesslike and more independently minded approach, which is leading to more responsible management and stronger foundations on which to build. New directors, with applicable talents are being sought and apparently found. While I don't approve of things like diversity quotas, we should celebrate and be proud to make a bit of a show of the broadening cultural experiences we now have. I'm sure Ajay Chopra (is he still a director?) is a very busy man, and wouldn't want anyone uncomfortable in the spotlight being forced on stage, but it would be encouraging and perhaps beneficial to see him "flying the flag" publicly, prominently and ,to my mind so far, productively as Jacqui Low. A director's role is one of leadership and there is I think an requirement to be seen to lead from the front. Over the past 5 years or so, despite the inarguable successes , there have been things I would have done differently and believe could have been done better. In short, my view is, remain vigilant and scrupulously critical, however, I think the board have earned the right to be viewed a little less cynicism when calling for all hands to the pump now. Mon eh Board! edited from "sceptically".... f**king english .... c*nt of a subtle language.... Edited May 19, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) The thing about this "new trust" thing for me is... see how it pans out. It's a club led initiative so.... over to you guys. I think with the perfect example of Bowen Boys led fundraising, the continuation of this site is far more important in building capable, productive, deep and strong support for our club. I would assert it is its' independence from the club which is its' reason for success and feeling of pride for those who contribute in whichever way it's existence provides. Posting, organising, questioning, co-ordinating, informing, advertising, fund raising, bring together fans from across the globe.... This site is prime evidence, though absolutely not the sole example, that the JAGS have a decent, proud, passionate, able, creative, generous and willing support base. We don't need another "trust"... but fair play... carry on. Wearethistle... we chip in when we want! Edited May 19, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) .... In truth, coz like I say the new regime are not above critique, I would advise them to scrap this new "trust". I know they are allegedly financially stable, and the start up costs for this venture may be minimal.... but I would suggest that, with the consent of the "trustees", "moderators" or owners of this site, club funds and effort might be better used printing up 100 "wearethistle.co.uk" branded t-shirts, hoodies or pants and selling them (i suspect quite easily and quickly) in the club shop for profit. This would, return tangible financial gain, show the club as willing to support and share mutual responsibility, respect and trust with their fan base, and promote and benefit two independent establishments with a strong mutual interest. However.... Good luck answering all Morag's questions and appeasing all of the "old" trusts members past and present that all their good work over the years was nice but .... Carry on Edited May 19, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 .... In truth, coz like I say the new regime are not above critique, I would advise them to scrap this new "trust". The new "trust" is part and parcel of our debt free status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) The new "trust" is part and parcel of our debt free status. Fairy nuff... re-negotiate. ....Wasn't the old "trust" an integral part of something at some time ..... Seriously though, I just think it's unnecessary .. but if it pleases someone or some people... Go for it... Impress me.... and the people your point suggests are insisting you do it. I have my doubts is all and am suggesting perhaps a better part could be parcelled up in the deal that would make it better all round. Edited May 19, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) So I attended the meeting with about 15 others there. The 5 presenters all had some time speaking explaining the logic and reason behind the night. I wasn't taking notes so apologies for the brief notes and thoughts from yesterday. Nothing below is direct quotes but my interpretation. Club is on sound financial ground. Debt free! They recognise they have 2500 solid home fans and that helps them budget. Of course they want more. Already have 15 first team players signed up for next season which is different from past seasons so less scrambling around for players and contract negotiations etc. 3 year contracts for Archie and Shaggy bring stability and planning. Sponsorship including Kingsley has been a big success with increased media profile. Extra resources to Development squad as recognise gap between 17 to 21 age group. Pauline and Foster have lengthy experience and commitment to the Community Trust which is under the Thistle banner but totally separate from the club. The Community Trust is there for charitable reasons and to help the community. There will be elections in the future for other fans to stand. Foster and Pauline are there to get the ball rolling, create a foundation and encourage further involvement. Greig was keen to emphasise they want to be a direct face to the fans for the fans and hopefully remove any kind of politics or conjecture etc that can happen and has happened at Thistle and other clubs. Supporters Federation was tried but the enthusiasm from fans decreased and momentum ended. Was also difficult to manage all different groups and the fans were spread thin from what is a small base. It did not work and that included club involvement. Supporters Trust was part of the debt free status (my gap here as I think its down to Weir Euromillions who helped us financially but did not want to own or run the club). Jacqui is there to help the communication and they realise they can do better but also improvements have been made. Club really want to know the supporters and get info to help improve their experience and also to help get more fans in. A survey such as end of season review was raised and positively viewed. The Jags Trust is not really involved with the club excluding 1 or 2 events a season. The club has no idea of Trust membership. Looking at 3 fans meetings a year. Possibly on matchdays to make attendance higher. They did plan to have this kick off meeting at a home game but were not able to coordinate. Acknowledge the Wednesday night was not the best time. That's what I could remember and hope it is ok. Below are my personal thoughts. All 5 were positive and gave a good impression. All were honest and want to get fan involvement and acknowledge the club is strengthened by its fans. The football and financial side sounds very good. Small number of fans attending was not a good impression on "us" the wider group. The Fans Trust is something that applies to myself. I'm your bog standard middle of the road fan and none of the previous groups really appealed to me. At a time when Rangers who are 10 to 20 x bigger than us merging their 3 main fans groups then it shows we should have 1. Jags Trust does not appeal to me. It does not reach out to the fans and I felt when the Jags Trust and member of North West fans spoke up it went a bit negative and "death by committee" getting bogged down in past and/or details. I would rather go straight to the new fans trust that has fan and club memberships. Why do via an additional tier? I don't want fan ownership. Fan involvement yes but if you really want to get involved then this vehicle sounds like the way forward. Dare I say it but fans want too much? I want to see my team win. It's well run by a board who give up their time to act as custodians. We are in a good place. Enjoy and appreciate. Edited May 19, 2016 by Lambies Lost Doo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Thanks LLD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Lambies Lost Doo has given a very good summary of last evening's meeting so I will just add a few bits and pieces. All the speakers from the trust board were very good and issues were addressed both honestly & positively. Maxi advised that the average home support this season was 2,444 which is down 19 on last season. Looking to get a survey done soon and aware that needs to be available in more than just an online format given that we have older fans who are not perhaps that good with IT. Proposing 3 meetings per year and looking to use all available means of communication. I can't remember how it was split but some of the board are on 3 year terms and others on 4 year terms so when the elections take place we don't have everyone going at the same time. It is very well understood that failures of previous schemes will be brought up but everyone is focussed on making this work. The politics and agendas that have been in place need to stop. My impression was that this is something a bit different to things that have gone in the past - I can't really qualify why I feel that but sometimes you just get an impression when speaking to people that either they are telling you any old guff or that they are on the level and last night it was the latter. For me we need to give this our backing and I know there will be people talking about things that went in the past and that is putting them off so let me use an example. How many people here will be buying a lottery ticket on Friday and buy a ticket each Friday in the hope of winning a big prize so they can pack in their job? Now how many people who do that have actually won? I would suggest not very many if any but they will continue to do so despite all those previous failures so if we can overlook those because we have the very slim chance of standing to gain personally why can't we do the same when it is our club and fellow supporters who stand to gain from this trust being a success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 If you're suggesting that £2/week means that Thistle will have a slim chance of winning the Champions League, I'm in. What is the next step for the trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 The way I see it, how the Board (which is a continuing corporate entity, regardless of who its members are) has treated the Jags Trust is a running sore which will continue to bleed into trust and cooperation between fans and Board until it is healed. This not only involves the football club which all of us support but also the way in which its Board of Directors (and its makeup is irrelevant to this point) has abandoned its moral as well as legal duty to protect the interests of all shareholders (as it happens, in this case the interests of a large shareholder) or live up to promises made. Unsurprisingly, the Jags Trust is unwilling to take the legal recourse open to it, because this isn't really about a profit-making entity, and so the Board can reasonably be viewed as taking unfair advantage of its position. In a more formal setting, the Board's (in)actions would probably end up tested in some kind of tribunal and some kind of resolution would be arrived at. It seems to me that the Board would be better advised to be magnanimous towards the Jags Trust, admit that it has come short of commitments given and open negotiations to heal the rift. What does it have to lose? Until or unless it does so, I fear that some fans' experiences will justify a jaundiced view of the board's attempts to provide any alternative links with fans, and this will continue to affect trust, to the detriment of everyone concerned. Building bridges is better than digging trenches. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 ^ Much appreciated report and opinion LLD 15 or so is a bit of a disappointment, and I plead guilty to absence. So much obliged to ya for your summary. However, as far as a reflection on "us", I do take your point but ask, in relation to the club wanting to get to "know the supporters and get info to help improve their experience and also to help get more fans" (and I appreciate here that you are not quoting directly), was "wearethistle" mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 was "wearethistle" mentioned? It was certainly mentioned with regards to post #9 on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 It was certainly mentioned with regards to post #9 on this thread. Nowt else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Forgot to add that the new trust will have a section on the club website which is going to be revamped as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Nowt else? No and in my personal opinion I don't see why it should. It's a great board and I enjoy it but to me it's just a method of communication along with facebook, twitter, group of people chatting in pub etc. There are some fans on here but lots not. To me it's another group of fans which are under the thistle umbrellas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Does anyone know anything about the jags trust ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 They have a twitter account. Latest message sent 29 Sept 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Fearchar Maybe if the Trust had taken better care of itself then the club board would take it more seriously? How many members does the Trust even have these days? It's a question asked many times in recent years but which is never answered, probably to save embarrassment. I wouldn't be surprised if the number was now dozens, rather than hundreds or thousands. The custodians of the JT have allowed it to rot for some years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Fearchar Maybe if the Trust had taken better care of itself then the club board would take it more seriously? How many members does the Trust even have these days? It's a question asked many times in recent years but which is never answered, probably to save embarrassment. I wouldn't be surprised if the number was now dozens, rather than hundreds or thousands. The custodians of the JT have allowed it to rot for some years now. Regardless of how the Trust Board have acted or are perceived to have acted. Everyone needs to look past the Trust Board. The Jags Trust is possibly the biggest group of Thistle fans under one banner. They are a massive part of Partick Thistle's customer base, Just because it would seem our Club have issues with the Trust Board, how I believe they have treated the members of the Trust here, is nothing short of disgusting and shame on them for it. The line being fed that it is the bank who are blocking their involvement in the new Trust. I've yet to hear anyone explain how that is even possible or why it has come about. What influence do the bank have over an organisation, when we don't owe them any money. They shares were bought by the Weirs and gifted to the fans in the form of a Trust. Who are the bank to say that Thistles largest organised fan base can't be represented within it! What did the club do to prevent this, does anyone believe they worked tirelessly to support the fans who are members of the Jags Trust? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) So what are the JT doing in response to this poor treatment? The answer is absolutely nothing. They are in a position of severe weakness due to their own inaction over the years. They don't have the means or the support within the wider fan base to fight anything. I would normally have sympathy with the situation the JT now find themselves in, but I'm afraid I don't. You talk about the JT being "neutered" - I would argue that they neutered themselves when they decided to ditch the 1876 club. I would also argue that in the years that followed, they have done nothing to encourage new members, and nothing to encourage existing members from renewing. One could be forgiven for thinking that they are not prepared to challenge the club board due to the state of their own house. Edited May 20, 2016 by ian_mac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) So what are the JT doing in response to this poor treatment? The answer is absolutely nothing. They are in a position of severe weakness due to their own inaction over the years. They don't have the means or the support within the wider fan base to fight anything. I would normally have sympathy with the situation the JT now find themselves in, but I'm afraid I don't. You talk about the JT being "neutered" - I would argue that they neutered themselves when they decided to ditch the 1876 club. I would also argue that in the years that followed, they have done nothing to encourage new members, and nothing to encourage existing members from renewing. One could be forgiven for thinking that they are not prepared to challenge the club board due to the state of their own house. I would hope that they aren't doing nothing, I certainly don't have the knowledge or authority to suggest thats the case. I would hope they have contacted the bank to find out exactly what is going on. There is also the route of contacting the Ombudsman. You are right, they probably don't have the support in the wider fan base. Which is a pity, as they have demonstrated they can support the wider fan base in it's time of need. For example, the North Stand debacle when we were on the vege of being moved. The Jags Trust gave us the full support of their membership and worked to bring supporters buses on board to give us their support too. Without The Jags Trust's support, we would have had a much bigger fight on our hands. With that in mind and the fact that i served to represent the members, I probably do have a lot of sympathy with the members of the Jags Trust. The 1876 Club vote neutered the Trust, of that there is no doubt. In one swoop and a plea for a leap of faith, the trust members gave their proxy to people who were happy to hand over the 1876 to the Club to start the Centenary Fund. They no doubt regret that now, seen as the Club have never honoured the promises they laid down at that meeting. Leap of Faith he said... Fool me once, i Say... Edited May 20, 2016 by potty trained 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Is there any proof that the bank is involved? I don't remember it being said at the meeting. My understanding is this has came from clearing the debt via Weir Euromillions donation as it were. I say donation as they don't want ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 http://www.eveningti...age_free_quot_/ "the supporter’s trust being formed was one of the aspects that the bank were eager for us to set up and we’re happy to do that" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 No and in my personal opinion I don't see why it should. It's a great board and I enjoy it but to me it's just a method of communication along with facebook, twitter, group of people chatting in pub etc. There are some fans on here but lots not. To me it's another group of fans which are under the thistle umbrellas. My concern is that they do not recognise that working with the fans is not the same as controlling or incorporating them into club business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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