Stats Watch 2016-17

[The Jukebox Rebel]

The definitions of "League", "Competitive Games" and "All Games":

 

 

Unless specifically stated otherwise

 

"League" shall mean the national-level League fixtures played in the SFL, the SPL and the SPFL. Play-offs are excluded from all tallies and streaks.

 

"Competitive Games" shall mean Anglo-Scottish Cup; ARR Craib Cup; Challenge Cup; Coull Memorial Trophy; Drybrough Cup; Emergency Cup; Exhibition Cup; FA Cup; Gathering of the Clans Tournament; Glasgow & District Mid-Week League; Glasgow Charity Cup; Glasgow Cup; Glasgow Dental Cup; Glasgow League; Greenock Charity Cup; Ibrox Disaster Tournament; Inter City League; Inter-Cities Fairs Cup; Inter-Toto Cup; July Cup; League (Scottish Alliance); League (SFL); League (Regional League, Western Division); League (SPL); League (SPFL); League (Play-Offs); League Cup; Lord Provost's Rent Relief Fund Cup; Maryhill Charity Cup; Motorola Cup; Paisley Charity Cup; Royal Standard and Grand National Halls Cup; Scottish Cup; Scottish Qualifying Cup; Southern League Cup; Southern League; Spring Cup; St Mungo Cup; Stirling Charity Cup; Summer Cup; Tennent Caledonian Cup; UEFA Cup; Victory Cup; War Fund Shield; West Of Scotland Cup; Western League; Yoker Cup

 

Where there is no statement qualification, I am referring to "All Games" played by the Partick Thistle first team, namely friendlies and benefits added to the list above.

 

Games which were abandoned or played then subsequently voided by the authorities are excluded from all tallies and streaks.

 

 

 

 

Stats Watch 2016-17

 

Here we go then for the 142nd season of the Partick Thistle Football Club.

 

Archie and Shaggy are at the helm for the fifth consecutive season – every term they have set some sort of League table record, can they do the unthinkable once again? Having matched John Lambie’s three, can they now go on and match Bertie Auld’s achievement of safely navigating the course of four complete top-flight campaigns?

 

Will Kris Doolan break through that magical 100 competitive goals barrier during this season? If he does, he will have matched Jimmy Walker’s all-time club-record of netting double figures in seven consecutive seasons. He’ll have some competition for top scorer this time around mind you – the goals look like they could come from runners all over, wide and deep. Chris Erskine was top of our competitive goals chart in 2012-13 – can he replicate that feat? A ding-dong battle here would be ideal for the PTFC!

 

I look forward to the continuing emergence of ThistleWeir talents – with every passing year there are more and more of them. How many will break through this term, and can they establish themselves on the biggest stage in Scottish football?

 

An impressive 22 players with existing competitive first-team appearances for Thistle are in place for season 2016-17. Going into the 2016-17 campaign, an incredible 207 competitive goals had been scored between those 22 players. Already, they’ve added 8 to that total in the first 4 League Cup games!

 

The story so far…

 

 

The friendlies

 

There were 16 debutants in the 4 friendlies, 8 of whom were trialists. Making their first appearances from the development squad were Conor Cullen, Michael McMullin, Andy McCarthy, Dom Docherty and Ian Stokes.

It was an exceptionally early start this term, with Thistle kicking-off the new season in June for the first time since the Inter Toto Cup of ’95, and for only the third time in the club's history. The total break of only 45 days between the end/start games in 2016 was the fourth shortest close-season in the club's history, but still a full two weeks longer than the record-low 31 days of 1951!

 

Cirencester Town provided the opening-night opposition, meaning that Thistle have now played non-Scottish opposition for 25 seasons-in-a-row, further extending the club-record. Clearly in the mood for experimentation, Cirencester go down in history as the first club to have 12 players on the bench versus Thistle! There are notable debuts for two within our ranks, as Conor Cullen starts his first-team Thistle career with a clean-sheet, just as Tomáš Cerný did before him. Northern Irishman Liam Donnelly (trialist) becomes the latest full-internationalist to have played for Partick Thistle, and the 124th known to me. Kris Doolan's run of scoring in 5 consecutive games ends in spectacular fashion with an assists hat-trick, the first such instance since my records began in 2013-14. As a season-opener, Thistle's six-goal winning margin is second only to the 7-0 win over Ardayre on... get this... 6th September 1879.

 

At Bath, it’s a club-record-equalling seven-nation army which lines up to do battle with the Romans. And how do they follow the opening night win that had only been bettered almost 140 years ago? Most Thistlefully – with a shocking 4-0 defeat, the biggest losing margin against non-League opposition since a 4-0 Glasgow League loss to Queen's Park on 3rd May 1899! Oh Thistle, how DO you do it? Bench-warmer David Syme is the only one of the twenty not to have his clean-sheet record affected.

 

At Kirkcaldy, the stay-away brigade seem to call it right as Thistle and Rovers grind out a scoreless stalemate for the third consecutive time. 813 spectators can boast of being part of the record for the lowest gathering ever to witness a match between these two clubs.

 

At Greenock, David Crawford answers the call as Thistle are stuck for a goalie. He’s the 4th different goalie to start in our 4 games so far. Chris Erskine becomes the first Jag to employ the solo kick-off tactic, further to the FIFA law change that came into effect on 1st June 2016 which states the ball does not have to move forwards from the off. Following on from his exploits at Cirencester, Erskine bags his second pre-season brace and looks likely to challenge Doolan at the top of the Thistle scoring charts this term. Ex-Jag Ross Forbes has a golden opportunity to level the game for Morton in the second half, but big David Crawford becomes the fifth Thistle 'keeper to save a penalty on his debut, and the first since Steven Pinkowski denied Kilmarnock’s Kris Boyd in May, 2004. His save ensures victory for the Jags – not a bad response to an S.O.S.

 

 

The League Cup

 

At Airdrie, Thistle kick-off the competitive season with a Friday evening fixture for the fourth time. The first time, by amazing co-incidence, was when the Diamonds were defeated 5-2 by The Jags in the 1st Round of The Exhibition Cup on the evening of Friday 10th August 1888! The match resurrects a tradition which began away back in 1947, as Thistle kick-off the competitive season with a League Cup group game for the 28th time. We seem to like doing this, as we're now on a run of 5 consecutive wins in these circumstances; in 1974, 1975, 1981, 1982 and now 2016. Four make their competitive debut; David Crawford, Ziggy Gordon (his "all-games" debut), Danny Devine and Ade Azeez, with the big ‘keeper marking his special occasion with a clean-sheet, just as Tomáš Cerný did before him. It’s Kris Doolan who proves to be the match-winner for Thistle, meaning that our trusty número nueve has now scored for Thistle in nine consecutive seasons, becoming the first player to do so since Billy Cunningham in 1968-69. It’s the sixth consecutive game in which Kris has scored – only Jimmy Walker (7-in-a-row in both 1949 and 1950) and Scott McLean (8-in-a-row in 2000) have been beyond this point. Thistle's glorious run of avoiding defeat on the opening competitive game of the season continues, unbeaten in the 21st century and now sitting at 17 games. Livingston were the last side to inflict defeat upon the Jags in such circumstances, winning 2-0 in the Motorola Cup Semi-Final on 17th July 1999. The current run is easily the greatest in the club's history, surpassing the 11 season run between 1940 and 1950.

 

Our first game of the season at super-lush Firhill is marked with a fine victory, made all the sweeter with last-minute heartbreak for Lee Robinson in the Queen of the South goals. It’s a big day for the old skool, as Sean Welsh becomes the sixth member of the current squad to reach the 100 competitive games milestone, and scorers Chris Erskine (43) and Steven Lawless (36) push their combined “all-games” goals tally to an impressive running total of 79.

 

Buoyed by this, a big Thistle support descends upon Stenhousemuir a few days later, and are rewarded with an entertaining 4-1 victory against Brown Ferguson’s Warriors, meaning that Thistle have won three consecutive League Cup matches for the first time in 41 years. Adding to this strange phenomenon, Thistle are awarded a penalty-kick away from home in competitive action for the first time in almost two-and-a-half years, ending a 49-game-run without. Sing hallelujah! Sean Welsh maintains his 100% spot-kick record – now 3/3, all in competitive action. Ade Azeez nets his first goal for the club, and our post-match warm-glow is enhanced by the realisation that we’ve had seven different scorers in the first three competitive games of the season. This contrasts starkly with last term when we only had one scorer (Kris Doolan) in the first nine games! Whisper it – the last time there was such a wide spread in the group section of the League Cup was at the start of Thistle's victorious campaign of 1971.

 

At the end of July, the most ancient and noble institution of the Queen’s Park grace Firhill with their presence, but are no match these days for Glasgow’s oldest professional football club. Putting our 19th century hurt well behind us, the Jags triumph over the Spiders for the 13th consecutive time in competitive action, a run which now stretches back more than 30 years – easily our most dominant run against any team, any time. Excitingly, Liam Lindsay's second-half headed goal takes Thistle's spread of competitive goalscorers up to 8 after just 4 games. Such a wide distribution has been a recurring feature of Alan Archibald's reign, always exceeding the historical average of 12.5. For the record there were 15 (2012-13), 15 (2013-14), 16 (2014-15) and 16 (2015-16). Here on Stats Watch, I shall be keeping a watchful eye on the club-record of 20 different competitive scorers set in 1957-58 and equalled in 2006-07. The win means that Thistle finish a League Cup section with maximum points for only the second time in the club’s history. Bertie's class of 1975 were the only other Jags side to have done so.

 

At the time of posting, Thistle have won 5 consecutive games – the second longest streak of Archie’s reign, and the longest since his side won 8-in-row, onwards from match day two of his tenure, way back in early 2013. Jags are now 7 competitive games without defeat, the longest run since a 10 game streak, April to August 2013.

 

Everything points to an exciting season ahead – there is much talent on-board and the team-spirit is deeply rooted within the group, another recurring feature of the Archie & Shaggy years.

 

I'll keep the post-match stats coming throughout the campaign – keep an eye on me, four eyes are better than two every time. I’ll be very disappointed if I make a mistake, but I’ll be even more pleased to fix it. Hopefully others will join in with stats, observations, queries, comments and general craic, therefore making the thread better for everybody, not least myself.

 

Into battle we go, in good heart.

 

Mon’ the Jags!

 

[Jaggernaut]

I've been eagerly awaiting this thread. Already addicted!

[jaggy]

"Livingston were the last side to inflict defeat upon the Jags in such circumstances, winning 2-0 in the Motorola Cup Semi-Final on 17th July 1999."

 

Do we really class this as competitive? Surely competitive is Scottish League or Cup matches? I assume the Motorola Cup was a 4 team pre-season tournament?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

"Livingston were the last side to inflict defeat upon the Jags in such circumstances, winning 2-0 in the Motorola Cup Semi-Final on 17th July 1999."

 

Do we really class this as competitive? Surely competitive is Scottish League or Cup matches? I assume the Motorola Cup was a 4 team pre-season tournament?

 

I guess you have to for comparison reasons if nothing else. So hard tho' to compare like for like when you go thru the ages. For instance I don't pay much heed (if any) to goals scored these days in friendlies but thanks to TJR in particular you can see that at one time friendlies/arranged games were part and parcel of the game. It's fair to assume that these type of games were far more seriously contested and thus you shouldn't ignore or devalue the importance of goals scored in friendlies back then.

Edited August 5, 2016 by lady-isobel-barnett

[The Jukebox Rebel]

"Livingston were the last side to inflict defeat upon the Jags in such circumstances, winning 2-0 in the Motorola Cup Semi-Final on 17th July 1999."

 

Do we really class this as competitive? Surely competitive is Scottish League or Cup matches? I assume the Motorola Cup was a 4 team pre-season tournament?

 

Thanks for the challenge Jaggy - it's a good one.

 

I hear what you’re saying, and would agree that tourneys such as the Motorola are little more than glorified friendlies. However, I am the definition of logic bloke – I shall try to explain why I think they should be included…

 

I’m dicing up 140 years of Partick Thistle results. In that time we’ve played in almost 50 tournaments and in several different Leagues. It’s really not as simple as plumping for SFL / SPFL and Cups (as many in the Sky Sports Generation seem to do). Just because they’re all we know today doesn’t mean they’re the only relevant inclusions historically.

 

Other stattos that I know baulk at the fact that I include the local Cups, i.e. The Glasgow Cup and the Glasgow Charity Cup. But when you study history, you realise that these were a major part of our fixture card in their time, with crowds of more than 50,000 at Hampden finals. Not to include them would be pretty much the worst example of revisionism that you could possibly get.

 

Once you reach the only logical conclusion that these games must be included, it follows that you must similarly conclude that the Charity Cups of Greenock, Paisley and Stirling must also be included. But this serves up a dilemma – the latter two were often little more than invitational single challenge matches, played post-season with some crowds in the mere hundreds.

 

Now, anyone trying to classify and grade the importance of our 40+ tournaments would be kidding themselves on if they thought either of these were any bigger than “modern day” pre-season tournaments such as the Motorola Cup in question.

 

So you see, introducing subjectivity to these matters is a recipe for potentially chaotic and unsatisfactory results, and inevitably leads to dead-ends in the maze of logic.

 

After much consideration, the only conclusion is to resort to a binary definition.

 

Is there a trophy? Yes = competitive. No = non-competitive.

 

You might not agree with me, but at least I try to make it absolutely clear what’s behind my facts and figures (as per the very opening statement in the thread); the aim of each report / feature is 100% consistency, 100% accuracy and 0% ambiguity.

 

In any event, the result of the original statement would remain the same:

 

31.07.1999 Alloa Athletic [h] L0-2 (League Cup 1st Round)

 

Groan.

 

 

In other news...

 

Dools Watch

 

A goal from Kris Doolan tomorrow would see him equal the 93-year-old club-record of scoring in 6 consecutive top-flight matches. The record was set by Sandy Hair in October 1923 and equalled by Bobby Howitt in February 1953.

[Vaila Street]

This is a fantastic thread. *but* no one can surely claim the ARR Craib Cup counts as a competitive match. For confirmation how many has Doolan scored in League / League Cup / Scottish Cup / Challenge Cup?

[The Jukebox Rebel]

VS,

 

Many thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I’m keen to get further thoughts and opinions in regards to your criticism, which I take on board constructively.

 

Firstly, Kris Doolan’s 90 competitive goals

 

by season

 

5 - 2008-09

3 - 2009-10

18 - 2010-11

13 - 2011-12

15 - 2012-13

11 - 2013-14

10 - 2014-15

14 - 2015-16

1 - 2016-17

 

 

by competition

 

81 - League

5 - Challenge Cup

2 - League Cup

2 - Scottish Cup

 

 

Re my joining of the major and minor tournaments under the competitive tag – it’s a tough game, the old stats game; the deeper you delve into our history, the more you realise it’s the only sensible solution, for reasons previously stated. So I lay down a challenge to you or anyone else…

 

You’re the statto. You have almost 6,500 Thistle games to assimilate into streaks, tallies and milestones. I’ve made it easy for you by listing the 40 odd tournaments in the opening post. Exactly how would you dice them up? Remember – this is a statistical exercise, where precision is all, no vagaries please. Your solution needs to be logical, and you should serve up no contradictions within your policy decision…

[BowenBoys]

Great to see you back and obviously relishing the season ahead. The enthusiasm in your writing is infectious. Keep it coming TJR.

[The Jukebox Rebel]

06.08.2016 Partick Thistle 2 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 0 (SPFL Premiership - game 1)

• After 3 competitive games without a Yellow Card (the longest run of Archie's reign), Thistle pick up a booking within the first 4 minutes of the League campaign opening.
  
• Chris Erskine has scored in the last 3 matches in which he's played.
  
• Since the fateful blank at Victoria Park in April, Thistle have scored in ten consecutive competitive matches.
  
• David Amoo's one yard special on the hour-mark means that Thistle have now won seven consecutive halves of competitive football. Best under Archie to date was winning 8 consecutive halves in March, 2013.
  
• The enforced substitution of the injured Liam Lindsay means that, already, only 3 players remain with full competitive game-time in 2016-17; Ziggy Gordon, Callum Booth and Sean Welsh.
  
• Tomáš Černý maintains his 100% clean-sheet ratio for the season (2/2) and now sits at 39.4% (13/33) in competitive action for Thistle. The club's historical average is 22.8%.
  
• I wonder how many Jags have started off their competitive Thistle careers with played 5, won 5? Congrats to Ziggy Gordon and Ade Azeez!
  
• Thistle’s amazing 24-year 10-game unbeaten run for top-flight openers, which began in 1992, duly continues. It's currently the longest run by time-span of any Premiership side.
  
• For the first time in almost 2 years, Thistle sit in a UEFA Europa League qualification spot.
  

 

ongoing sequences and goals tables:

 

• 6 consecutive wins, 9th Jul 2016 to date. (Longest run since: 8 games; 19th Feb 2013 to 30th Mar 2013. Club-record: 15 games; 13th Dec 1881 to 22nd Apr 1882.)
  
• 8 competitive games without defeat, 7th May 2016 to date. (Longest run since: 10 games; 10th Apr 2013 to 16th Aug 2013. Joint club-record: 16 games; 15th Nov 1975 to 21st Feb 1976 & 30th Sep 2000 to 13th Jan 2001.)
  
• 44 away League games without a penalty award, 1st Mar 2014 to date. (Longest run since: 46 games; 5th Dec 1914 to 24th Mar 1917. Club-record: 62 games; 1st Apr 1911 to 7th Nov 1914. *)
  
• 45 consecutive competitive appearances for Steven Lawless, 9th Aug 2015 to date. (Longest run since: Callum Booth - 46 games; 14th Mar 2015 to 9th Apr 2016. Club-record: Johnny Jackson - 313 games; 28th Aug 1926 to 25th Mar 1933.)
  

* These streaks are perceived and not categoric, and should therefore be considered with some degree of caution. In their favour, two independent researchers have looked carefully at press reports which cover virtually all of the matches from the time. It's entirely possible, however, that penalties may have went unreported or, indeed, are noted in alternative press reports which have not yet come to the attention of the researchers.

 

 

 

Competitive Goals 2016-17

3 - Chris Erskine

2 - David Amoo

1 - Ade Azeez

1 - Kris Doolan

1 - Liam Lindsay

1 - Mathias Pogba

1 - Sean Welsh

1 - Steven Lawless

 

 

Competitive Assists 2016-17

2 - Mathias Pogba

1 - Callum Booth

1 - Chris Erskine

1 - Declan McDaid

1 - Kris Doolan

1 - Sean Welsh

1 - Steven Lawless

n.b. There have been 3 non-assists

 

 

[jags on tour]

How many players have played for us on 3 different occasions? and scored in each of the spells? Erskine obviously, I thought Chico, he had 4 different spells with us but didn't score in the last 2?

[Graemei]

Such a good thread mate, love this.

[Tom Hosie]

 

 

You’re the statto. You have almost 6,500 Thistle games to assimilate into streaks, tallies and milestones. I’ve made it easy for you by listing the 40 odd tournaments in the opening post. Exactly how would you dice them up? Remember – this is a statistical exercise, where precision is all, no vagaries please. Your solution needs to be logical, and you should serve up no contradictions within your policy decision…

 

All matches played before the start of the official scheduled start of the season (SFL, SFA, SPL, SPFL, etc sanctioned competition), irrespective of whether a trophy is on offer or not, should be considered as friendly matches?

 

Answering my own question, that wouldn't really work as before the introduction of league matches it would be impossible to determine the official start of the season and only cup matches would count as competitive matches and not the multitude of 'friendly' matches that filled the majority of the fixture lists in the late 19th century.

[Vaila Street]

VS,

 

Many thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I’m keen to get further thoughts and opinions in regards to your criticism, which I take on board constructively.

 

Firstly, Kris Doolan’s 90 competitive goals

 

by season

 

5 - 2008-09

3 - 2009-10

18 - 2010-11

13 - 2011-12

15 - 2012-13

11 - 2013-14

10 - 2014-15

14 - 2015-16

1 - 2016-17

 

 

by competition

 

81 - League

5 - Challenge Cup

2 - League Cup

2 - Scottish Cup

 

 

Re my joining of the major and minor tournaments under the competitive tag – it’s a tough game, the old stats game; the deeper you delve into our history, the more you realise it’s the only sensible solution, for reasons previously stated. So I lay down a challenge to you or anyone else…

 

You’re the statto. You have almost 6,500 Thistle games to assimilate into streaks, tallies and milestones. I’ve made it easy for you by listing the 40 odd tournaments in the opening post. Exactly how would you dice them up? Remember – this is a statistical exercise, where precision is all, no vagaries please. Your solution needs to be logical, and you should serve up no contradictions within your policy decision…

Using the Official PTFC History as my style guide the Ibrox Disaster Tournament, Tennent Caledonian Cup and the Motorola Cup are classified as friendlies. The remainder of the list are stated as League / Cup matches as far as I can see.

 

ETA : July Cup also down as friendlies. However irrespective of ridiculous pedantic gripes on my part as a fellow keen stats man please accept my gratitude for a magnificent thread.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Vaila Street

[Lenziejag]

 

 

 

Competitive Assists 2016-17

2 - Mathias Pogba

1 - Callum Booth

1 - Chris Erskine

1 - Declan McDaid

1 - Kris Doolan

1 - Sean Welsh

1 - Steven Lawless

n.b. There have been 3 non-assists

 

 

 

What are the definitions of assists and non assist and can you only have one for each goal. I am thinking that both Abdul and Liam and Sean should get some recognition for their part in Amoo 's goal. It seemed to me that this was a planned move, as Devine was almost celebrating before Lindsay mis connected with his header

[lady-isobel-barnett]

How many players have played for us on 3 different occasions? and scored in each of the spells? Erskine obviously, I thought Chico, he had 4 different spells with us but didn't score in the last 2?

 

I've no recollection either of Chico scoring after his 2nd spell. If you exclude trialists (and even then I can't think of any examples) I wouldn't be surprised if Erskine is the first, especially if you only include competitive games.

[jags on tour]

I just checked wiki and went with what they said!

[Veejag]

"The enforced substitution of the injured Liam Lindsay means that, already, only 3 players remain with full competitive game-time in 2016-17; Ziggy Gordon, Callum Booth and Sean Welsh."

 

This seems incredibly low. How does this compare to other seasons 5 games in?

[The Jukebox Rebel]

Cultivating a beard at the moment. Jeezo, I never knew I was so ginger. It’s about an inch so far, ‘kin brilliant for stroking your chin. That Socrates bloke knew the score, eh? Bet he never had to deal with anything as tricky as the categorization of the Lord Provost’s Rent Relief Cup, mind you.

 

How many players have played for us on 3 different occasions? and scored in each of the spells? Erskine obviously, I thought Chico, he had 4 different spells with us but didn't score in the last 2?

No more than several I'd guess. Paul Kinnaird was one. You'd be right about Chic not scoring in his 3rd and 4th spells. What about his 5th "spell" though - who could ever forget that late screamer against the Mhanky Mhob in Kenny Arthur's testimonial?

Categorizing spells can be a tricky business - often loanees turn into signings. Do they count as one or two spells? My instincts are with l-i-b on this one, I reckon Chris could well be the first to score competitively in 3 distinctive spells. I’ll keep this query at the back of my mind if I ever do some proper research on multiple spells.

 

All matches played before the start of the official scheduled start of the season (SFL, SFA, SPL, SPFL, etc sanctioned competition), irrespective of whether a trophy is on offer or not, should be considered as friendly matches? Answering my own question, that wouldn't really work as before the introduction of league matches it would be impossible to determine the official start of the season and only cup matches would count as competitive matches and not the multitude of 'friendly' matches that filled the majority of the fixture lists in the late 19th century.

Aren’t all matches sanctioned by the SFA? Also, you would lose the St Mungo Cup (1951), the Drybrough Cup (1971) and the Glasgow Cup (1983) under that definition.

 

Using the Official PTFC History as my style guide the Ibrox Disaster Tournament, Tennent Caledonian Cup and the Motorola Cup are classified as friendlies. The remainder of the list are stated as League / Cup matches as far as I can see. ETA : July Cup also down as friendlies. However irrespective of ridiculous pedantic gripes on my part as a fellow keen stats man please accept my gratitude for a magnificent thread.

I note the OH includes the Glasgow Dental Cup and the Lord Provost Rent Relief Cup in the competitive section. Can you explain to me please why these should these be treated differently to the Ibrox Disaster Tournament? Surely they all fall under the same "charitable" category?

 

I do not find your gripe to be in the slightest bit pedantic. I think it’s a fair point, and is overdue a decent debate.

 

The people to blame are probably the Association of Football Statistics (AFS). They were the first to get serious about Stats and started dictating how it would be to fans and commentators. If you ask me, it was for pure ease and convenience that they decided on class definitions for tournaments. This saved a lot of pesky research into difficult historical territories. It has now become normalized to ignore pre-season tournaments for statistical purposes.

 

Take the July Cup held in Sweden in ’72. This couldn’t be any more of a classic definition of a tournament if it tried. Group stages, multiple play-offs, multiple nationalities. There were 4,000 at one of our matches. Why on earth would we want to suddenly start categorizing these games as friendlies? This makes no sense to me, whatsoever.

 

Why does the OH include the infinitely inferior Stirling Charity Cup (poorly attended one-off challenge matches) as competitive fixtures and not the July Cup? Bonkers.

 

Trust me, I’ve been ‘round and ‘round this train of thought, I’m baw deep in the deep thing. There is only one solution with zero ambiguity – if there was a trophy, it was a competitive fixture. In this regard, the ARR Craib Cup might be like an annoying blister, but it’s not worth cutting your finger off for.

 

What are the definitions of assists and non assist and can you only have one for each goal. I am thinking that both Abdul and Liam and Sean should get some recognition for their part in Amoo 's goal. It seemed to me that this was a planned move, as Devine was almost celebrating before Lindsay mis connected with his header

Yep, I stated this on last season’s thread, worth going over it again for new readers. (Is WAT getting new readers?)

 

As I’m always saying, there is absolutely no place for subjectivity in Stats. Unfortunately, the model that you describe is open to all sorts of alternating opinion. When does the move start? What if it breaks down? Is there a time limit? Is there a distance limit? How many players can be involved? Would Barca have seven assists per goal in their heyday? FIFA have got a multi-assists model but trying to get a handle on that is almost impossible from the outside looking in. From what I can gather, they’ve constantly been making amends to it over the years, meaning that assists at World Cups have got all sorts of differing rules over the years.

 

I stick with the OPTA model which is pure and simple; one assist per goal; no assist for rebounds or goals directly from set-pieces. The assist is awarded to the last player from the same team who, in open play, touches the ball before the scorer, so long as the ball hasn’t dramatically changed trajectory via an opponent in the interim. Under this model, there were no assists for the second and third goals at Ochilview, nor for Amoo’s second on Saturday, as unsatisfactory as that may seem on the face of it. Of course, I’m just a hobbyist on a Forum, I’m in the firing line with all my rules which are guaranteed not to please all the people, all the time. The one thing I can guarantee for my assists is a consistent interpretation since 2013-14, with none of the mis-identifications which have plagued the “network” over the years.

 

Why not design your own model? It'd be interesting to see if you could find some sort of consistency. You could keep us updated every week. Oor Stats Watch, Your Stats Watch, A'Bodys Stats Watch.

[The Jukebox Rebel]

"The enforced substitution of the injured Liam Lindsay means that, already, only 3 players remain with full competitive game-time in 2016-17; Ziggy Gordon, Callum Booth and Sean Welsh."

 

This seems incredibly low. How does this compare to other seasons 5 games in?

That was my instinct too, but a closer look reveals that, actually, this is quite normal under Archie's reign, big on squad rotation:

 

2013-14 (5) Scott Fox; Stephen O'Donnell; Aaron Taylor-Sinclair; Conrad Balatoni; Steven Lawless

2014-15 (3) Stephen O'Donnell; Abdul Osman; Gary Fraser

2015-16 (4) Tomáš Černý; Gary Miller; Callum Booth; Stuart Bannigan

Edited August 8, 2016 by The Jukebox Rebel

[jaggy]

"The enforced substitution of the injured Liam Lindsay means that, already, only 3 players remain with full competitive game-time in 2016-17; Ziggy Gordon, Callum Booth and Sean Welsh."

 

This seems incredibly low. How does this compare to other seasons 5 games in?

No real surprise with the new League Cup format if you ask me. I'm sure many teams shuffled their teams during the 4 matches they played

[The Jukebox Rebel]

Stuff

Anyway, while you're honouring us with your presence Sir Tom, what's happening with this long overdue Partick Thistle Historian publication? And whit aboot part 2 of thon Thistle in Crisis story? Treat them mean, keep them keen is it?

[Tom Hosie]

Anyway, while you're honouring us with your presence Sir Tom, what's happening with this long overdue Partick Thistle Historian publication? And whit aboot part 2 of thon Thistle in Crisis story? Treat them mean, keep them keen is it?

 

Since retiring from the Thistle programme I've been filling a gap in my education by studying for a degree with the Open University. That is pretty much taking up my spare time. Only another 4 years to go with that so may revisit the whole project then.

[The Jukebox Rebel]

^ Excellent, good on ye. A big commitment, though I guess you'll be well used to that after all those years with the programme.

 

So, 2021 for the first issue it is then

[partickthedog]

TJR, a competitive fixture is one in which the fans go nut if Thistle score, jumping in the air if seated or moving around excitedly if already standing. If we stay in the same place and clap politely, that's a friendly.

[The Jukebox Rebel]

^ Aye, very good. Good luck with gathering the video evidence from the Yoker Cup.

 

Rejected.