potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Why do we play so many holding midfielders all the time? I believe our setup is fundamentally wrong. Its little wonder we were the lowest scorers last season Do you think our centre halfs only need 1 DM infront of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 erskine has not lit the heather on fire Bizarre target for your ire. Our top goalscorer and main creative outlet. A guy who's clearly a better player than he was when he left for United. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Lindsay just as culpable as the rest. He and Divine are far too hesitant at any cross ball/ball in to box. I know many on here see him as a future star but I don't agree.He's far too slow. Ziggy was far too easy at letting crosses in to box. Hamilton had a field day. Barrton isnt fit. Osman either isnt fit or way off form. Lawless needs dropped. We missed chances at start of 2nd half that would have seen us safe. Doolan missed the same chance as Azeez did a few weeks ago yet was clapped. Double standards. Keep that defensive rear guard all season and we are fooked. azeez missed at least 3 great chances the other week. Dolan also had at least the 2 defenders with him making it a bit harder but I'm sure azeez with 2 of his 3 chances had just the keeper to beat. That's not to say doolan shouldn't have maybe done better but it certainly wasn't easier than the 3 azeez missed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watties wallies Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 watching the jags this season especially concerning the defence we all can see that we have major issues with back line we have two very experienced ex defenders on our management team surely this has got to be addressed now imo devine and gordon on the right side is not working i know all of the above is stating the bleedin obvious but deerie me watching this shambles week after week is a real pain in ra bum so come on thistle lets sort this out now right i'm off now to take my medication Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 What concerns me most, excluding our defensive frailties, is our fitness. We were spent after 60 minutes yesterday whereas Hamilton looked like they could have played on for another hour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 watching the jags this season especially concerning the defence we all can see that we have major issues with back line we have two very experienced ex defenders on our management team surely this has got to be addressed now imo devine and gordon on the right side is not working i know all of the above is stating the bleedin obvious but deerie me watching this shambles week after week is a real pain in ra bum so come on thistle lets sort this out now right i'm off now to take my medication Not sure what can be done now to sort this, unless there is an unsigned, hidden, central defender gem out there. Just what Archie was thinking in close season is beyond me. To leave the central defence so short in numbers was criminal. It beggars belief that he has left us in this situation, especially given that both himself and his assistant were accomplished central defenders. Devine needs dropping now, to try and get his confidence back. Only option we have is Barton and nobody really knows what he is like in this position. Jeez big Conrad had his critics, but at the moment, I would take him any day over Devine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Why do we play so many holding midfielders all the time? I believe our setup is fundamentally wrong. Its little wonder we were the lowest scorers last season Completely agree. Given that we're conceding an average 2 goals a game, we need to score 3. And the managers preferred current set up is so negative that we will not do that. One up front against Hamilton at home was criminal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Ok, so its now the formation thats the problem? Our centre halfs only need protection from 1 DM? When that 1 DM drops back between the centre halfs to play the ball out, he doesnt need the other DM anymore, to move the ball on? Should it be Osman, Welsh or Barton who should play the DM role? Who's going to play beside Edwards? Are folk suggesting 4141 or 4132 as their prefered formation? Look forward to your response folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Can we have more "the manager stands with his arms folded" and "we have 2 defenders managing us" responses, they're my favourites. Always makes me chuckle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 What concerns me most, excluding our defensive frailties, is our fitness. We were spent after 60 minutes yesterday whereas Hamilton looked like they could have played on for another hour. I suggested the fitness issue is the major talking point, in the Thistle thread on PnB. I find it baffling that we struggle every year with overall fitness and injuries, at the start of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglemon Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) The defence gets, maybe rightly, a lot of stick here, but Thistle (along with County) have lost less goals than any of the rest of the bottom seven. Perhaps we should look more critically at the players who are supposed to get the ball in the opposition's net. Totally agree: Hamillton and Motherwell would have been wins barring the inability of Doolan and Azeez to stick away great chances. We'd have 10 points and everyone woulod be a lot calmer. Edited October 16, 2016 by thebiglemon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Ok, so its now the formation thats the problem? Our centre halfs only need protection from 1 DM? When that 1 DM drops back between the centre halfs to play the ball out, he doesnt need the other DM anymore, to move the ball on? Should it be Osman, Welsh or Barton who should play the DM role? Who's going to play beside Edwards? Are folk suggesting 4141 or 4132 as their prefered formation? Look forward to your response folks. So the formation and set up yesterday was right in your opinion? Should the team not have been set up to have a right good go? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) Totally agree: Hamillton and Motherwell would have been wins barring the inability of Doolan and Azeez to stick away great chances. We'd have 10 points and everyone woulod be a lot calmer. If the defence had done their job we would have won both games 1-0 (Well) and 2-0 (Accies) All three goals we have conceded were absolutely dreadful especially allowing the smallest player on the park to score with a free header in the Motherwell game Edited October 16, 2016 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Not sure what can be done now to sort this, unless there is an unsigned, hidden, central defender gem out there. Just what Archie was thinking in close season is beyond me. To leave the central defence so short in numbers was criminal. It beggars belief that he has left us in this situation, especially given that both himself and his assistant were accomplished central defenders. Devine needs dropping now, to try and get his confidence back. Only option we have is Barton and nobody really knows what he is like in this position. Jeez big Conrad had his critics, but at the moment, I would take him any day over Devine. One consequence of this that hasn't been mentioned - last season we had Dan, Freddy, Liam and Jack Hendry, plus Gary Miller who turned out to be handy in central defence when required. This season we have Danny and Liam and...............that's it. Last season whoever had the jersey knew they had to play well to keep their place or lose it to an equally good replacement. So far this season Danny and Liam know that they have the jersey barring injury or suspension. It's highly likely that even one equally good replacement on the bench would have encouraged an extra 5% or so from them which might have made all the difference to the results so far. Bearing in mind that the wheels came off the bogey comprehensively at Tannadice in early August when Liam was injured and Ziggy had to fill in at centre half, you'd have to say that the evidence was already plain for the management to see when there was still time to act in the transfer window. Not to mention that Conrad was training at Firhill at the time!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 So the formation and set up yesterday was right in your opinion? Should the team not have been set up to have a right good go? Why quote me if you have no inclination to answer any of my questions, and back up your claim that we only need 1 DM. Im open to persuading. But youll need to do more than throwing an idea in the air and seeing what way the wind takes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome on the Bing Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) Formation isn't the problem IMO. 4-4-2 doesn't work unless you've got Ngolo Kante running your midfield. We employed this formation, or something similar to it, against St Johnstone and Hearts and, well, got beaten. Having two up top doesn't make you any more offensive if the only way the team is able to get the ball to your strikers is by launching it from deep inside your own half. It's also a formation that leaves an already shaky back four even more exposed. This isn't to say there aren't issues with our patten of play. So much of our play used to come through SOD then, latterly, Muzzy. And even when they weren't in possession they would stretch the opposition by taking up extremely advanced positions on the right wing. Ziggy's an excellent player but he's a different type of player – more defensively minded – which is fine in itself, but it means we need to rethink how we play through midfield. Edited October 16, 2016 by Gnome on the Bing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 It wasn't me that claimed it incidentally but for what it's worth, I don't think we need any DMs. Currently we have a defence that is gifting goals and that's with 2 DMs playing each week. Currently we are joint lowest scorers in the league because we don't have enough players going forward in a positive manner creating chances. Those two facts combined are why we are defacto bottom of the league. So IMO, we need more offensive forward looking players who aren't just playing tippy tappy sideways backwards p1sh. 442 was the way to go yesterday and I'm confident we would have won it. It's an obvious statement, but to win games we need to score more than the opposition. And to do that, we need more players going forward than sitting back. FWIW my preferred formation has always been 352 but I acknowledge we currently don't have the personnel for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyP Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Just my opinion https://kennypieper.wordpress.com/2016/10/16/off-the-bottom-of-the-league-hamilton-15-10-16/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 One consequence of this that hasn't been mentioned - last season we had Dan, Freddy, Liam and Jack Hendry, plus Gary Miller who turned out to be handy in central defence when required. This season we have Danny and Liam and...............that's it. Last season whoever had the jersey knew they had to play well to keep their place or lose it to an equally good replacement. So far this season Danny and Liam know that they have the jersey barring injury or suspension. It's highly likely that even one equally good replacement on the bench would have encouraged an extra 5% or so from them which might have made all the difference to the results so far. I have mentioned that several times since the window shut. Frankly couldn't believe it when we didn't sign at least another central defender, we even perhaps needed two. When it was clear that Dan was offski, further efforts should have been made to keep Miller and Frans, who both made it clear that they were happy to sign on again, albeit both were looking for more 1st team appearances (what player doesn't?) If Miller had stayed, there would have been no need to sign Gordon, hence freeing up money for another central defender, with the bonus that Miller played excellently in the central defence on the few occasions he played there last season. I am an Archie man, but have to admit that he has totally cocked up the last transfer window. Let's hope we are still in contention with some other sides come January and he can rectify the glaring deficiencies in the current squad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Just my opinion https://kennypieper.wordpress.com/2016/10/16/off-the-bottom-of-the-league-hamilton-15-10-16/ Fair enough summarisation Kenny, but it's one thing talking about this time last year. The defence last year was one of the best we have ever had in the top league and stats back that up and we had plenty of back up as well. Totally different ball game this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 You do realise that 442 is a more rigid formation, and it could be argued, offers less players going forward, right? 4231 means we have 4 attack minded players who can rotate position. It offers more freedom to attack and allows players to exploit space. 442 is rigid and is easier to defend against, defenders know their jobs and its easy to nulify. Doesnt allow for your wingers to play as strikers. And probably eliminates a lot of their goal threat as they are more focussed on getting down the wing and crossing. Its a proven fact, goals dont come from crosses. They arent some pot of gold. By crossing the ball you are creating a 50/50 chance for the opposition to retain possesion. Infact in it probably favours the defenders more. Added to that, you are putting the ball in the air for the keeper to catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Its a proven fact, goals dont come from crosses. They do against Thistle's defence. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggyMad Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Bizarre target for your ire. Our top goalscorer and main creative outlet. A guy who's clearly a better player than he was when he left for United. Interesting that you only quoted 1 line of my comment, does that mean the other 99% of my comment was spot on? As for the line you have quoted, so you actually think Chris been great, outstanding, or mesmerising since the beginning of the season? He has made mistakes like others , but gets it easy from the fans, that was my point. As said earlier by someone, dools missed a chance the same as azees did but dools was clapped and encouraged to keep going, where as azees was slaughtered. And last but not least, my ire is with the whole team, not individual players that always seen to be the easy targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Its a proven fact, goals dont come from crosses. it probably favours the defenders more. Added to that, you are putting the ball in the air for the keeper to catch. 1) Scott McDonald and Solomon Coulibaly, two of the smallest attackers in the top league disprove that 2) As above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) What concerns me most, excluding our defensive frailties, is our fitness. We were spent after 60 minutes yesterday whereas Hamilton looked like they could have played on for another hour. Was thinking that myself tho' I think it's more a pacing than a fitness issue. Certainly tho' if that was a cup game and extra time involved there would only be one winner. In fact I was relieved when the final whistle went. Hanging on with eleven men for a draw at home against Accies isn't something you should ever feel relief about. Not unrelated, tho' probably incidental to the game itself, but I reckon the three substitutes we introduced yesterday must've been the fastest trio ever. Unless Dumbuya , Elliott & Amoo all came on in a game last season I can't think of a faster trio since three subs were introduced. Apart from the irony of discussing the fitness issue in the first place I'm not trying to make any point regarding the match and outcome. Just making an observation and I'd be very interested if anyone could up with a "three" with more pace than Amoo, Elliott & Azeez. Edited October 16, 2016 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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