MonehJags Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 Dundee united sold all there best players, York were a lost cause. Im not saying McNamara is perfect. The legend left us for 'greener grass' too. My questions to you are this, under which manager did you see us play the best football? How far have we progressed since our promotion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 Of the team that featured in the squad against Falkirk when we clinched the title McCall had brought the following players to the club: Fox Balatoni Bannigan Erskine Doolan I think he deserves some credit although the lion's share obviously goes elsewhere, in particular Archie. Balatoni was a bit of an anomaly as he had two loan spells before signing on permanently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 Dundee united sold all there best players, York were a lost cause. Im not saying McNamara is perfect. The legend left us for 'greener grass' too. My questions to you are this, under which manager did you see us play the best football? How far have we progressed since our promotion? I like to see my team winning. During that season, it happened far more under Archie than it did under McNamara, especially away from home. I also like to see us playing at the highest level possible. That's been the case for 4 seasons in a row thanks to Archie. Only one other manager has achieved that in my lifetime. In that time McNamara's managerial career has descended in to complete and absolute farce. Yet you are still championing him for a potential return at the expense of Archie? What planet are you on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabbath Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Balatoni was a bit of an anomaly as he had two loan spells before signing on permanently. Excellent point, McColl was never a manager, even in his wildest dreams. He was however a great scout, Archie should have used his experience instead of listening to salesmen, or agents should I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabbath Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 I like to see my team winning. During that season, it happened far more under Archie than it did under McNamara, especially away from home. I also like to see us playing at the highest level possible. That's been the case for 4 seasons in a row thanks to Archie. Only one other manager has achieved that in my lifetime. In that time McNamara's managerial career has descended in to complete and absolute farce. Yet you are still championing him for a potential return at the expense of Archie? What planet are you on? Were It not for McNamara, who built the team don't forget. Arch would not have been in the position in the first place to hoover the credit. Our saving grace was Arch dropping himself and bringing in Dowie. the only real signing he ever made....We have not progressed one bit. this team would struggle in the first division or championship league, or what ever the hell its called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Ive noticed the "what planet are you on" is quite a common answer from you. You failed to answer any of the questions I put to you. I don't feel we are any further forward on the park. I want to see a winning team as everyone else does. At the moment we are only winning 30% of the games we play during a league season. Throw in early cup exits and losing late goals and its good enough for another crack in the top league to repeat it all again. We couldn't lay a glove on celtic, even when they were the worst celtic team in decades. We still cant beat a bad rangers. Success for me would be comfortably sitting in the league, beating the old firm now and again (which is only going to get harder) and a visit to hampden every other season. I was 16 the last time we were last there. We have no devine right to do any of the above however it should be a realistic target or ambition. Im not having the small budget patter. We have decent enough resources there to achieve it. On the evidence of the past im not sure Archie can deliver on any of that. Should we just be happy to settle for the likes of last season all the time? McNamara maybe isn't he answer either, who knows, but he certainly had us play a style of football I was lucky enough to see. To dismiss him as a failure is wide of the mark. He guided united to the Scottish Cup final and the league cup final, he lost the majority of his best players and from there it went downhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Again, to use your own analogy, how many of that United team that he took to the cup final were actually his signings? Also, they were heavy favourites for that final but completely blew it on the day. You lads need to look at the example of St Mirren. What they did with Danny Lennon is exactly what you are wanting us to do just now. The point is, Archie isn't perfect, there are definitely better managers than him in the world - but how many of them would be prepared to pitch up at Firhill? John Hughes for example wouldn't touch us, he'll have his eyes on bigger jobs. You are wanting the club to take a massive gamble at a time when it really isn't needed. Yes we are bottom but we are also 2 wins away from being in the top 6. St Mirren bowed to fan pressure and sacked Danny Lennon, they thought they had a god given right to be higher than they were. Now they are rock bottom of the championship and looking at the very real prospect of playing 3rd tier football next season. We've actually been there before, twice in my lifetime, and on both occasions the club was extremely fortunate to survive. The things you are asking for, top 6, beating the old firm, getting to cup finals, bigger clubs than us have gambled trying to achieve these things and ended up in administration. That's something I don't want for us as I genuinely don't know if we would survive it. Look at the lessons of the past, look at the examples of other clubs who take gambles with steady managers. We are having a bad run just now but recent history suggests that Archie is more than capable of getting us out of it. He has certainly earned the right and deserves the benefit of the doubt. Also bear in mind that the other guy in this thread who is agreeing with you also believes the earth is flat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graemei Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 All of them? McCall was long gone by the time McNamara built the squad that won the league. McCall brought a few of them in but only once did we ever come close to challenging for promotion under his tenure. Never said all of them. Also didn't mention anything about managerial abilities. My only point was McNamara cannot take sole credit as one person in particular believes. I mean... McCall even signed McNamara and I doubt he would have been our manager had it not been for that act, so technically you can credit McCall for architecture of where we are today. Of the team that featured in the squad against Falkirk when we clinched the title McCall had brought the following players to the club: Fox Balatoni Bannigan Erskine Doolan I think he deserves some credit although the lion's share obviously goes elsewhere, in particular Archie. Did McCall not also bring, Paton, Cairney and Harkins to us? All going on to sign for bigger clubs. Obviously only Paton was around at the time though. Not in any way trying to discredit Archie, I think a lot of his signings have been spot on and the team he has built with the budget he has is probably one of the strongest Thistle sides we have had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 If united had had a decent keeper they may well have done better. As I said, I think we have suitable resources available to achieve the above. We wouldn't need to gamble as you say the clubs future by overspending. Off the pitch the board are running the club correctly and admirably. St Mirren and St Johnstone for example didn't wildly overspend to achieve success. Danny Lennon won the League Cup 3 years into his time with St Mirren. The club decided to promote from within in the form of Tommy Craig. Nobody wanted him to take the job as it was seen by the St Mirren fans as a side step and wouldnt push them forward as they wanted. Ultimately it was the backward step they haven't recovered from. That would be like us letting Archie go and promoting shaggy as manager. We are far from untouchable as far as appointing a new manager goes. John Hughes must be reading the same book as Ziggy Gordon. So you do you accept that we are going nowhere? Last season should have been an eye opener but nothing has changed. Optimism was high at the start of the season but when we keep making the same mistakes its hard to see the same positives Archie does. Saturday is as much a cup final as last Saturday was for me. It was marker of how far we have come. What for the rest of the season? At this stage ill now be happy with survival and start next season with the same optimism for improvement as I did this year. Archie will never be sacked, but it remains to be seen whether he is the man to take us forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 To be fair to Archie, he does seem to be adding to his skills: he has adapted the team to different formations in order to utilise the available squad better, and not all of the substitutions are too late to affect games. Against that, these changes seem to be very slow in coming, and signings seem to be a bit of a mixed bag - for every Barton, there's a Devine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 You're arguing with yourself here Fearchar. The point about St Mirren is that the clamour for him to be sacked came from the fans first and foremost. I'm sure those same fans now realise the error of their ways. You talk about the club being in a good position off the park. That is only because of the investment of Colin Weir, who isn't in the best of health just now. Without that money we would be in a far less admirable position. For every Barton, there's a devine, this is true. But show me a manager on this earth, past or present who has an unblemished recruitment record? It remains to be seen if Archie is the man to take us beyond where we are currently. But the question is, could we attract someone else who could even keep us where we are now? If Archie keeps us up this season he will become the most successful manager we've had in nearly 40 years. I'm astonished that he isn't getting the benefit of the doubt in this difficult time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 McCall's ability to work on a shoestring was most admirable. He kept us more or less safe from relegation the whole time he was with us. In these ridiculously small leagues that was no mean feat. He clearly wasn't the manager to get us promoted but without the relative stability he created, coupled with his signings, we wouldn't have been in a position to get promoted. Even if you disagree with above one thing that's virtually undeniable is McCall had indirectly saved us from going into administration. Had we not sold Harkins and perhaps also Twaddle we'd have been in the shit. Further had McCall not converted Harkins into an attacking midfielder he'd never have even commanded a transfer fee. The importance of that, along with the signing of Doolan and Erskine, shouldn't ever be underestimated. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Its only a difficult time because we have made it one. We could easily be in a relatively comfortable position with rangers scalp but we aren't. The 1st and 2nd season I think could be called success staying in the division but there after should finishing 10th be the mark of success? Ive said where I think we should be if not now then very soon. Your correct about the St Mirren fans pressure to remove Lennon but they never wanted Craig either. The board were and have been financially prudent cutting our cloth to suit prior to the Weir donation. The interest on the bank debts were haunting us. What the Weir's done was a landmark moment and shouldn't and never will be forgotten. At the end of the day its all about opinions, and in my view, we should have a lot more to cheer about on the park than we currently do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Going back to the original question, I see Hearts are looking for a "young and intelligent" manager. Would be surprised if Archie wasn't on their radar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Going back to the original question, I see Hearts are looking for a "young and intelligent" manager. Would be surprised if Archie wasn't on their radar I'd be gobsmacked if he was. Their fans will demand someone far more high profile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Looks like Ian Cathro will get it. Levein will be pulling all the strings anyway so it was always going to be a young untried coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graemei Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Trying to do a Hoffenheim style appointment... Except Cathro is less proven. I think that's a huge gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Its remarkable really for someone so young to be so high thought of, given he hasn't played professional football either. Interesting to see how he does if he gets the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 You're arguing with yourself here Fearchar... Yes.....and no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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