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Anniesland Jag

Return to Stadiums in September

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14 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

I'm at the stage where I'd volunteer to catch this.  Be a battery hen and ride it out with medical support.  Bored of it.  Going mad.  Looking at economic impact and more worried about that.  Looking at other people's actions and despairing while understanding how teenagers and yoof are not socially distancing. 

I'd go to football with mask on, socially distanced and promise to be quiet.  Anyone who shouts out gets chucked out by full PPE wearing bouncers then hosed down outside.

 

"Be a battery hen and ride it out......"

Pun intended?:innocent:

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11 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

Anybody else a bit suspicious about how pharmaceutical companies appear to be developing anti-Covid vaccines at amazing speeds, apparently in months, and have them tested and presumably approved for sale by the millions...... when normally it takes years for vaccines to get through all the pre-clinical and clinical trials and safety checks to ensure that there are no long-term  negative effects on people, or on their as-yet unborn children?

There is a lot of money at stake for these companies, possibly their biggest ever bonanza.

Just a thought.

Not a vaccine, of course, but remember Thalidomide?: "Perfectly safe." 

What measures in particular do you disagree with in regards to speeding up the vaccine development?

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47 minutes ago, javeajag said:

For those interested in a vaccine .... they are coming soon 
 

 

At least one vaccine is totally novel and unproven technology (although if it works, it will be cheaper to produce).

No effective vaccination strategy has been developed for any coronavirus, which include some of the most economically damaging viruses there are (colds and flus).

There is increasing evidence that immunity to the novel coronavirus disappears over time.

Humanity may, in any case, face more new viruses, for example as the tundra in Siberia melts or because warzones act as incubators. If so, measures to stop infection could become the norm - which brings us back to the point of returning to stadiums.

IMHO, Firhill would be relatively easy to adapt, as it's large and doesn't usually have large numbers of spectators closely packed together. The awkward points of toilets and access could be adapted safely. Other stadiums don't usually have such open spaces, though.
 

Would rules about attendance be determined according to the average stadium, rather than each being judged on its merits? We've seen this for rules about countries, instead of regions, and about all homes, instead of house parties. 

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15 minutes ago, Fearchar said:

 

No effective vaccination strategy has been developed for any coronavirus, which include some of the most economically damaging viruses there are (colds and flus).

There is increasing evidence that immunity to the novel coronavirus disappears over time.

 

Flu is not a Coronavirus. 

There are over 200 different viruses that can cause cold symptoms. That makes it very difficult to vaccinate against. 

I would suggest the evidence points to long-term immunity to COVID. There have only been around 8 reinfections out of over 25 million confirmed cases. 

It's been established that people surveyed that had been affected by Sars 1 still have t-cells resistant to Sars 1. 

 

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1 hour ago, Alan Murray said:

Flu is not a Coronavirus. 

There are over 200 different viruses that can cause cold symptoms. That makes it very difficult to vaccinate against. 

I would suggest the evidence points to long-term immunity to COVID. There have only been around 8 reinfections out of over 25 million confirmed cases. 

It's been established that people surveyed that had been affected by Sars 1 still have t-cells resistant to Sars 1. 

 

Really? Then my uncle must be one of the 8 in 25 million. He has tested positive three times and negative two times over the past 5 months.

So it could be argued that maybe the tests were wrong. But those tests will be used to test the efficacy of the expected-to-be wonder vaccines that are being promised.

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13 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

Really? Then my uncle must be one of the 8 in 25 million. He has tested positive three times and negative two times over the past 5 months.

So it could be argued that maybe the tests were wrong. But those tests will be used to test the efficacy of the expected-to-be wonder vaccines that are being promised.

The test can pick up dead virus cells, which leads to a false positive. 

Scientists can tell when reinfections happen through the genetic code of the virus. 

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2 hours ago, Fearchar said:

At least one vaccine is totally novel and unproven technology (although if it works, it will be cheaper to produce).

No effective vaccination strategy has been developed for any coronavirus, which include some of the most economically damaging viruses there are (colds and flus).

There is increasing evidence that immunity to the novel coronavirus disappears over time.

Humanity may, in any case, face more new viruses, for example as the tundra in Siberia melts or because warzones act as incubators. If so, measures to stop infection could become the norm - which brings us back to the point of returning to stadiums.

IMHO, Firhill would be relatively easy to adapt, as it's large and doesn't usually have large numbers of spectators closely packed together. The awkward points of toilets and access could be adapted safely. Other stadiums don't usually have such open spaces, though.
 

Would rules about attendance be determined according to the average stadium, rather than each being judged on its merits? We've seen this for rules about countries, instead of regions, and about all homes, instead of house parties. 

Interestingly the first peer review study of the Russian vaccine indicated it produced an immune response in 100% of cases .....small sample but encouraging 

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6 minutes ago, Alan Murray said:

The test can pick up dead virus cells, which leads to a false positive. 

Scientists can tell when reinfections happen through the genetic code of the virus. 

I can mind Stevie Lawless saying something along these lines in a recent interview.

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On 8/23/2020 at 1:58 PM, jlsarmy said:

That’ll be a shame for the 15 Clyde fans

Anybody else remember a Clyde fan called "Uncle Albert" who used to pollute contribute to one or more of the old Thistle forums (ptfc.net and/or OLAS)? He was in high heaven when we were (again) in a lowly position; in fact weren't we even  a division below Clyde the last time we dropped to the third tier? Anyway, it looked like that was the highlight of his life? He was actually quite amusing.

I've been wondering why he hasn't appeared here, given that we've sunk again to their level, and that they are probably currently above us in the league on alphabetical order.

Maybe he's crossed the rainbow bridge since then. If so:

We're So Sorry, Uncle Albert..... 

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4 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

I'm at the stage where I'd volunteer to catch this.  Be a battery hen and ride it out with medical support.  Bored of it.  Going mad.  Looking at economic impact and more worried about that.  Looking at other people's actions and despairing while understanding how teenagers and yoof are not socially distancing. 

I'd go to football with mask on, socially distanced and promise to be quiet.  Anyone who shouts out gets chucked out by full PPE wearing bouncers then hosed down outside.

Was even tempted to stand outside Hampden and listen to game on radio tonight.  I'm 42.  That's not normal.  Luckily wife is going out so I need to stay in with kids.  But maybe I could get them into the double buggy and sleep?

 

Folk are fed up with it especially the older generation, that are basically isolated from their friends families and hobbies.

What was warned of was going to be devastating, and emergency powers given to governments, employment laws changed and freedoms eradicated, what was predicted never came.

5 months later the emergency powers have become the norm, the employment rights won’t return and we have our freedoms curtailed, but for what?

It was correct to react for the perceived threat, but it can be argued it never really transpired to the levels told by governments and  the fear whipped up by the media. Now with draconian measures still in play we are being deliberately driven not into a recession but the greatest financial and economic depression known.
The persons affected by this will be middle to lower class, small companies. Governments, multinational companies and the wealthy will emerge stronger and richer. Gaps in wealth and living conditions will massively increase.

We are no longer locking down to flatten the curve or protect the health services, the curve is non existent, hospitals are emptier than a year ago. It (to me) has now become political. 3 areas in Glasgow have restrictions placed on them, that are frankly bizarre in the working (you can’t welcome your family to the house, but a plumber can come in, Your Mum can’t visit, but if you cut hair from home you can continue your business), and the selection of these areas, when East Renfrewshire has infected rate of 25.1 per 100000 and has restrictions (over the 20 threshold), but Perth &Kinross with 25.7 isn’t, and  neither are the other 3 areas above 20 threshold.

There is no rhyme nor reason or scientific data backing restrictions (Ciaran Jenkins from Channel 4 news directly called this out last night to the 1st Minister and was brushed off). 
When you compare Scotland’s death rate (per 100000) between week 49 (2019) and week 32(2020) from same timescale 20 years ago, it’s less now.

The Irish Parliament has already been grilled on why COVID has been falsely put on death certificates, and struggled to answer. (It’s available to watch on line as it’s all filmed). UK has numerous examples of the same, and as stated previously I know if 2 occasions that it’s been challenged (and still is).

There was a credible threat, but the conditions we are living in now does not reflect the current level of threat, and with a vaccine maybe a year away, what sort of environment will be living in then if this continues?

Only my thoughts and some may agree and some may disagree, but pull the stats, run chart then and see for yourself.

 

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The  U.K. was behind France and Spain and this is still the case .....all the indicators are ticking up and we have to go into winter yet ....so the virus has not gone away except some people think the there is a Norwegian virus which is different from a US one

If the govt eased all the restrictions and say a child died the same people arguing for the easing would be criticising them for not protecting people 

is there a virus .....yes 

does it make people ill and cause death .....yes 

does it affect the vulnerable the most .....yes 


 

France 

On Wednesday, France reported 7,017 new confirmed cases in 24 hours. The number of Covid-19 cases in hospital is now 4,632, of which 446 are in intensive care. The death toll rose by 26 to 30,686. 

French health officials said hospital admissions had so far not risen sharply but warned that they had already seen the phenomenon of more vulnerable victims being infected by younger people in Marseille.

Last week, Jean Castex, the prime minister, said weekly new hospital admissions for coronavirus had risen to 800 a week, from 500 six weeks earlier.

Spain 

Spain has recorded the most new infections on the continent, clocking up more more than 53,000 cases last week. 

The paper points out that with 114 new infections per 100,000 people, the virus is spreading faster in Spain than in America.

More than half of the most recent victims are being reported from Madrid, says Forbes.

However there is glimmer of hope in both Catalonia and Aragon - two regions in northern Spain that suffered huge spikes of new cases in July - as they have begun to stabilise.

 

El Pais in Spain reported that Covid-19 fatalities have doubled in less than a fortnight, going from 0.4 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants to 0.8.

However, doctors and health officials aren't panicking about the second wave, as the death rate has tumbled from a 12 per cent peak in May to 6.6 per cent now.

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7 minutes ago, javeajag said:

The  U.K. was behind France and Spain and this is still the case .....all the indicators are ticking up and we have to go into winter yet ....so the virus has not gone away except some people think the there is a Norwegian virus which is different from a US one

If the govt eased all the restrictions and say a child died the same people arguing for the easing would be criticising them for not protecting people 

is there a virus .....yes 

does it make people ill and cause death .....yes 

does it affect the vulnerable the most .....yes 


 

France 

On Wednesday, France reported 7,017 new confirmed cases in 24 hours. The number of Covid-19 cases in hospital is now 4,632, of which 446 are in intensive care. The death toll rose by 26 to 30,686. 

French health officials said hospital admissions had so far not risen sharply but warned that they had already seen the phenomenon of more vulnerable victims being infected by younger people in Marseille.

Last week, Jean Castex, the prime minister, said weekly new hospital admissions for coronavirus had risen to 800 a week, from 500 six weeks earlier.

Spain 

Spain has recorded the most new infections on the continent, clocking up more more than 53,000 cases last week. 

The paper points out that with 114 new infections per 100,000 people, the virus is spreading faster in Spain than in America.

More than half of the most recent victims are being reported from Madrid, says Forbes.

However there is glimmer of hope in both Catalonia and Aragon - two regions in northern Spain that suffered huge spikes of new cases in July - as they have begun to stabilise.

 

El Pais in Spain reported that Covid-19 fatalities have doubled in less than a fortnight, going from 0.4 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants to 0.8.

However, doctors and health officials aren't panicking about the second wave, as the death rate has tumbled from a 12 per cent peak in May to 6.6 per cent now.

 

73FD16BC-90B6-40FC-833E-78F63044952B.jpeg

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34 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Let’s see once the pubs open ......

Cases are up because the level of testing is up. There are more than twice as many tests  being carried out now as at the peak of the problem. Admissions and deaths aren’t shooting up though

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2 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

Really? Then my uncle must be one of the 8 in 25 million. He has tested positive three times and negative two times over the past 5 months.

So it could be argued that maybe the tests were wrong. But those tests will be used to test the efficacy of the expected-to-be wonder vaccines that are being promised.

How many footballers have tested positive then next day negative? Quite a lot including the full Romanian international team and St Mirren team, football clubs have the opportunity and resources to retest, does the public?  Do these false positives get removed from the stats?

There is definitely a percentage of false positives in the test, maybe safer than a false negative, but this is driving policy and restrictions. 

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Cases are up because the level of testing is up. There are more than twice as many tests  being carried out now as at the peak of the problem. Admissions and deaths aren’t shooting up though

Hospital admissions and deaths are rising across Europe what we don’t know is whether they will continue at a low level or increase significantly during autumn and winter ....you can’t blame govts for being cautious till we know 

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Comparissions against France and Spain are interesting but at perhaps don't reflect where Scotland is and what its next set of problems are likely to be.

Scotland has re-opened its schools and is prioritising kids being in school over pubs, social activity, tourism and to an extent normal economic activity. The kids have only been back a few weeks and its lead to a massive increase in demand for tests most of which are negative thankfully but the strain on testing services have in effect already broken the UK government drive through facilities. NHS boards are currently spinning up additional facilities but will need to go further to meet increasing demand.

I don't think the next wave is about the number of deaths persay, although its almost inevitable there will be a rise. Its probably more about avoiding returning to more stringent lockdown measures. The problems to come for Scotland lie I think in 3 parts

1. Will England's infection rate start to spike as their kids return to schools and then spread across the border?

2. Will the number of infections rapidly increase as we hit the flu season which is typically November to March?

3. Will the hospitals and the test and trace system be able to cope with covid-19 infections on top of seasonal flu whilst allowing kids to continue attending school?

Scotland being more restrictive on the countries you can visit are now in part due to Scottish schools going back earlier than England. England also appear to have largely given up on having an effectice test and trace system so cross border infection identification and control may be too slow to prevent widescale outbreaks.

 

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It’s important not to get too fixated by cases .... more testing and easier testing capacity mean there will be more positive cases .... if hospital admissions and ICU patients steeply rise then we need to be concerned and that’s where looking at France and Spain comes in 

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2 minutes ago, javeajag said:

It’s important not to get too fixated by cases .... more testing and easier testing capacity mean there will be more positive cases .... if hospital admissions and ICU patients steeply rise then we need to be concerned and that’s where looking at France and Spain comes in 

Across Europe (including Sweden) thankfully they aren’t 

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2 hours ago, javeajag said:

Cases are....

22203421-025C-4A2D-BD47-22566A3EED51.png

But hospital admissions, ICU and deaths aren’t.

People are being tested on a huge scale, with many of them having tests and going positive without having any symptoms or even developing after testing positive 

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Interesting and Norway did even better than both with a gdp decline of 5.3%......the U.K. of course was beaten by Peru into second last place at minus 21%.....

 

50163873-A768-4663-878B-976B48946AD4.png

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