Chris near Oxford Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 If they sell or free Gary Harkins is a firesale it means less money for us... Come on Dundee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 If they sell or free Gary Harkins is a firesale it means less money for us... Come on Dundee! Or a 'new' player for us? Please, somebody on the board fund his wage. You can even remain anonymous . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted September 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 I reckon it's all to do with the current HMRC underpaid tax balls-up crap relating to the 1.4 million people with 2nd jobs/not paying the correct tax and getting a letter before Xmas to that effect ... ... any individual with over £2k outstanding has to pay up immediately with no leeway on extending the time - perhaps it's just consistency in their screwing down on the Dundee situation in giving them no time to pay ... ... no sympathy anyhow as they've known for a long time they'd have to pay up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Anyone got Sky News on? Evidently reports that they're going into administration on Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 (edited) Anyone got Sky News on? Evidently reports that they're going into administration on Wednesday. So we will now have the prospect of the league officials running around and seeing what set of rules they will be applying - will it be points deducted, relegation at the end of the season regardless of league position or start next season with a points deduction? The latest instalment in the crazy world of Scottish Football Edited September 27, 2010 by Fawlty Towers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted September 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 So we will now have the prospect of the league officials running around and seeing what set of rules they will be applying - will it be points deducted, relegation at the end of the season regardless of league position or start next season with a points deduction? The latest instalment in the crazy world of Scottish Football They're apparently meeting just now at Dens to discuss - has to be relegation to 3rd if they decide not to pay up ... it's not as if they aren't a viable club getting 4-5k attending home matches so they would survive down there no probs (if they drop the £19 gate fees! ... they could be like the Leeds Utd of the SFL ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 They're apparently meeting just now at Dens to discuss - has to be relegation to 3rd if they decide not to pay up Not necessarily. Livi were relegated two leagues during the close season as the SFL decided it was the best course of action when the club couldn't say for sure they would fulfil all the fixtures for the coming season. For Dundee, the season has already begun, and a more immediate penalty might be more suitable, though I believe there is no rule on what that should be (someone could correct me on that though...). Someone said 9 point penalty, where did that come from? I'd have thought that a very mild penalty considering they've spent on players who should be able to provide a little more than 3 wins extra a season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 9 points is in the SPL guidelines as punishment for entering administration. The SFL has full discretion in its rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAGSMAN1968 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 (edited) : I couldn't give a tuppeny **** about Dundee. Why do a lot of fans still cheer during the halftime scores if they are getting beat? Edited September 27, 2010 by JAGSMAN1968 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 If they sell or free Gary Harkins is a firesale it means less money for us... Come on Dundee! Re Harkins: We did get all the money for him up front didnt we? Re Dundee's problems: If the SFL has it at their discretion, and apparently they do, then the harshest of punishments should be dished out if they go into administration. Not because they have gone into administration but because of the way they have done so, spending waaay beyond their means while owing the tax man and the rent man. Buying Harkins and Griffiths for roughly the same amount of money they owe in tax, and offering players stupid money in wages for the 1st division was just mad and they deserve all that comes to them. Cue the minimal 9 point deduction by way of punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.C.G. JAG Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Re Harkins: We did get all the money for him up front didnt we? No, there was a sell-on clause attached to the deal, worth 20% if I remember right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordie Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 dont think people in glass houses should throw stones. I and other think we are not a million miles from the same stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 With relegation unlikely due to the season already starting and 9 or 10 points deduction being too lenient I suggest that the number of points gained by the goals of Harkins and Griffiths last season be used as the number which should at least be deducted this season. I make that out to be around 25 points so that should give us a fighting chance of finishing above them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Shot Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 With relegation unlikely due to the season already starting and 9 or 10 points deduction being too lenient I suggest that the number of points gained by the goals of Harkins and Griffiths last season be used as the number which should at least be deducted this season. I make that out to be around 25 points so that should give us a fighting chance of finishing above them. We need more than a fighting chance, as we have no fight in us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Man Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 I just hope we got the harkins money upfront and are not on their list of creditors ! If they owe us any money for harkins we should take him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 dont think people in glass houses should throw stones. I and other think we are not a million miles from the same stage. Difference is tho, we sold 2 players to pay most of our HMRC bill. We've sold half our stadium to try to ervice our debts. Dundee have gone the opposite way in the past 2 years...f**k 'em. That said, our own mismanagement problems mean we aint far from that stage as you say, but we're trying to manage it. Have Dundee? That's what prompted my initial post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 I just hope we got the harkins money upfront and are not on their list of creditors ! If they owe us any money for harkins we should take him back. I was under the impression that we received the full amount up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 dont think people in glass houses should throw stones. I and other think we are not a million miles from the same stage. I have to admit that the self same thought came to my mind after initially reading some of the posts, however if Scumdee do go into administration then they should be treated as far as possible like Meadowbank were. However, past experience has shown Scottish Football and credibility are hardly the two most common bedfellows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted September 27, 2010 Members Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 When Dundee had money troubles before, did they go into administration then or did they receive any punishment at all then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 When Dundee had money troubles before, did they go into administration then or did they receive any punishment at all then? They went into administration in 2003 - debt of £23m. No footballing penalty whatsoever imposed by the SPL...same with Livingstone & Motherwell at around the same time. Thistle got relegated...but we were the best run club in Scotland then and have never looked back since Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beep0608 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 I was under the impression that we received the full amount up front. I don't know either way, but I heard rumours last season that we did not get it all up front. I wondered then if Dundee were gambling on instant promotion, without a get out if it went wrong on the field. Which it has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 They went into administration in 2003 - debt of £23m. No footballing penalty whatsoever imposed by the SPL...same with Livingstone & Motherwell at around the same time. Thistle got relegated...but we were the best run club in Scotland then and have never looked back since I read somewhere that the SPL now have a 9pt penalty for a club going into administration. Even if there was a 15pt deduction back in 03/04 neither Dundee or Livi would have been relegated. We'd still have finished bottom. And of course the season before there was no relegation as the Motherwell rule applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoggy Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 I get the feeling that Dundee will worm their way out of this. They owe a lot of money to a lot of people, but the RIGHT people. Their debt was bought from the bank by a guy that isnt too bothered when they pay it back, and everyone else doesnt seem to mind either. Its a nonsense that a club can be treated so differently from any other business by ignoring something that not one of us would be allowed to get away with. The SFL will be completely toothless and make it up as they go along as usual if Dundee have to go into administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted September 29, 2010 Members Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 Their debt was bought from the bank by a guy that isnt too bothered when they pay it back, and everyone else doesnt seem to mind either. Forgot about that. I wonder if PropCo's Thistle Minded investors money would have been better spent trying to buy our debt from the bank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vom Itorium Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 Looks as though the Taxman may get nada if the main creditors call in their 'soft' loans... never saw that one coming! Latest Beeb story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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