Player fund

[Jordanhill Jag]

7 hours ago, Very Bitter Jag said:

The players fund was introduced in 2016, under David Beattie's chair, are you saying David Beattie was lazy too? 

I dont think you can simply state “ it was David Beattie” 

but Yes - simply begging for Money is lazy 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Jordanhill Jag

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said:

The statement that was put on when the investment was announced:

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/partick-thistle-fc-announces-strategic-investment/

There is nothing states it is emergency cash to sit in the Reserves 

[Jordanhill Jag]

5 hours ago, Tom Hosie said:

Ah of course - how dare anyone question the New PTFC - that will be the same one that had to get bailed out by the American Investor - but everything is fine 

[Fawlty Towers]

16 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

There is nothing states it is emergency cash to sit in the Reserves 

This is why I posted it so people can make their points with the facts at their disposal.

[Jordanhill Jag]

On 12/2/2023 at 10:19 AM, Lenziejag said:

I guess there are 2 points here. TJF are also board members, so have a role in raising funds.

Secondly, the fans have minds of their own and can decide whether to contribute or not. It’s not compulsory.

Actually there is nothing linking TJF Board Member and Fund Raising

The Thistle Trust have a Board Member they raise No Funds

 

[sandy]

7 hours ago, Tom Hosie said:

I think that’s unfair on JJ, Tom. The Forum is a place for debate, not belittling others 

[Very Bitter Jag]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I dont think you can simply state “ it was David Beattie” 

but Yes - simply begging for Money is lazy 

Did you state it was lazy at that time? Fair enough if you did. 

[dl1971]

1 hour ago, sandy said:

I think that’s unfair on JJ, Tom. The Forum is a place for debate, not belittling others 

Always room for satire on this site I'd say. I'd also respectfully suggest that JJ has clearly attempted to belittle the efforts of TJF at every turn. 

[partickthedog]

This is total over-simplification and generalisation to endeavour to make a straightforward point. "Begging bowl" is a rather pejorative expression for soliciting cash from those who believe in what you are doing, but I will let it be for the moment:

1) At one end of the spectrum are "pure" commercial trading companies. Their directors have to ensure, if need be by their own cash injections, that there is sufficient capital in place and sufficient regular commercial trading income to allow the company to continue to trade at least at break even (and hopefully rather better than that). No begging bowl allowed.

2) At the other end of the spectrum are "pure" non-trading charities. They do not generate any commercial trading income and their continued (and hopefully enhanced) operation relies on donation income from supporters who recognise the valuable work of the charity and voluntarily choose to contribute to this. Begging bowl is the only way.

3) Between these two "ends" there is a vast range of entities who to a greater or lesser extent share some of the characteristics of both of the above. Partick Thistle Football Club are one such entity. Appropriate, but not excessive, use of begging bowl is permissible.

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, Very Bitter Jag said:

Did you state it was lazy at that time? Fair enough if you did. 

I wasn't involved with the Club at the time - as I had left ( or in fairness was told my Services were no longer needed ) - there is no rule - but I took the decision not to comment on anything going on at the Club for 12 Months - so No I didn't comment at the time 

[Jordanhill Jag]

8 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

Always room for satire on this site I'd say. I'd also respectfully suggest that JJ has clearly attempted to belittle the efforts of TJF at every turn. 

Eh - the discussion is on the Clubs Players Fund - not TJF and No I have not attempted to belittle TJF at every turn thats just rubbish 

There is Satire and there is being Smug - its in the eyes on the beholder I suppose 

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, sandy said:

I think that’s unfair on JJ, Tom. The Forum is a place for debate, not belittling others 

Its obviously a complex discussion so I will simplify it so Tom can understand 

If you have a Business that relies on Handouts eg USA Investor - TJF - Players Fund - you don't have a sustainable business model 

The Begging Bowl approach will come back to haunt you 

If the Board cannot manage a Balanced Budget without Handouts - Change them 

See - No one is Angry - in Fairness Im only on Day 3 of Marcothon - Day 27 and I might not be as Chilled 😊🏃🏼‍♂️

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Jordanhill Jag

[Jordanhill Jag]

14 minutes ago, partickthedog said:

This is total over-simplification and generalisation to endeavour to make a straightforward point. "Begging bowl" is a rather pejorative expression for soliciting cash from those who believe in what you are doing, but I will let it be for the moment:

1) At one end of the spectrum are "pure" commercial trading companies. Their directors have to ensure, if need be by their own cash injections, that there is sufficient capital in place and sufficient regular commercial trading income to allow the company to continue to trade at least at break even (and hopefully rather better than that). No begging bowl allowed.

2) At the other end of the spectrum are "pure" non-trading charities. They do not generate any commercial trading income and their continued (and hopefully enhanced) operation relies on donation income from supporters who recognise the valuable work of the charity and voluntarily choose to contribute to this. Begging bowl is the only way.

3) Between these two "ends" there is a vast range of entities who to a greater or lesser extent share some of the characteristics of both of the above. Partick Thistle Football Club are one such entity. Appropriate, but not excessive, use of begging bowl is permissible.

All Good Stuff - but Im sorry we have to be a sustainable business - we relied on Handouts from external sources before - which can be pulled at anytime  - thats not a route we can repeat 

we have to be a proper business - not a Bowling Club 

[Very Bitter Jag]

1 hour ago, sandy said:

I think that’s unfair on JJ, Tom. The Forum is a place for debate, not belittling others 

So you have always treated fellow posters with respect? 

[ChiThistle]

3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

If you have a Business that relies on Handouts eg USA Investor - TJF - Players Fund - you don't have a sustainable business model

Not so sure the USA investor counts as a handout.  TJF, bit of a gray area.  Players Fund, totally a handout and a miniature, non-crisis version of Save the Jags.

But why the sudden hatred for the Player’s Fund that has been around for years?  I personally don’t love it, as “help fund our transfer window” has a “crowdfund our new church window” feel to it, but it seems like something you’d phase out gradually - not immediately discontinue.

Has it been stated anywhere that the intent is to keep that going long-term?  And does anyone know if it’s the ONLY source of transfer window funding Doolan will have?

[Jordanhill Jag]

14 minutes ago, ChiThistle said:

Not so sure the USA investor counts as a handout.  TJF, bit of a gray area.  Players Fund, totally a handout and a miniature, non-crisis version of Save the Jags.

But why the sudden hatred for the Player’s Fund that has been around for years?  I personally don’t love it, as “help fund our transfer window” has a “crowdfund our new church window” feel to it, but it seems like something you’d phase out gradually - not immediately discontinue.

Has it been stated anywhere that the intent is to keep that going long-term?  And does anyone know if it’s the ONLY source of transfer window funding Doolan will have?

The USA Investor is a Hand Out - look at the terms of the Agreement - what are they getting for there Money 

TJF - another Handout 

Players Fund - a Handout 

The Club did not generate any of these incomes - Players Fund is just another example 

It shows we are dependent on Hand Outs as opposed to balancing our budget 

[Woodstock Jag]

8 hours ago, ChiThistle said:

So the 500k investment is really not meant to be spent, right?  It’s essentially an emergency fund for cash reserves?

Does that money sit in a bank account? Does it get invested in some way so it’s making money?

It's working capital.

[ChiThistle]

2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The USA Investor is a Hand Out - look at the terms of the Agreement - what are they getting for there Money

A 10% stake in the club, according to the announcement?

[Very Bitter Jag]

Copied and pasted from the official site. Hasn't pasted very well, but hopefully gives context.

Thursday 19th May, 2016 at 12:28pm

Thursday 19th May 2016 at 12:28

A couple of months ago, the club was approached by a group of supporters asking what the next steps were in terms of progression for Thistle. What was needed to take our performance to the next level? The answer was simple – more money for players. They then asked – so how can we help?

Partick Thistle Managing Director Ian Maxwell explains further

This season has once again proved that there is very little between several teams in the Premiership. The fact we got within a goal of finishing in the top half shows improvement. Everyone connected with Thistle wants us to make it over that line next season.

Every season, we examine our revenue streams and budgets. This year we have done that within the context of remaining debt free while pushing on on the pitch. Our budgeting process is very simple – we take all our income, take away our running costs in terms of the stadium, pitch, administration staff, etc. and the leftover is the manager’s player budget.

In terms of income, all of our revenue streams are variable and we are already working as hard as we can to maximise income from these areas. Home crowds, for example, have stabilised and we are now at a fairly consistent number of home supporters each week, around 2450 (including season ticket holders and under 16s). This will take time to increase.

“So, prompted by the original questions, the club has been considering the idea of a fund where all money raised would go directly to Archie’s playing budget. For all of us, the most important thing is to see a winning team on the pitch.

“Having taken that on board, we decided to create the Players Fund to allow fans to make a monthly donation, which goes directly to the manager’s player budget, at whatever level they can afford. Donations start from £5 per month and continue for as long as fans are able and willing to contribute.

“Please be assured, this is not a cry for help. We are debt free and will continue to operate with good business sense and within our means. This is simply a way of expanding those means and we would reiterate, once again, there is no expectation on any of our fans to contribute. The Players Fund is an easy way for those who want – and are able – to help Archie directly improve our chances of a top six finish in an increasingly competitive league.

To be very clear again – every penny raised will be spent by the manager to build the team.

“Thistle fans and the club share one common ambition…greater success on the pitch. Together, we make that happen.”

You can donate online now or email [email protected] to request a direct debit form.

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, Very Bitter Jag said:

Copied and pasted from the official site. Hasn't pasted very well, but hopefully gives context.

Thursday 19th May, 2016 at 12:28pm

Thursday 19th May 2016 at 12:28

A couple of months ago, the club was approached by a group of supporters asking what the next steps were in terms of progression for Thistle. What was needed to take our performance to the next level? The answer was simple – more money for players. They then asked – so how can we help?

Partick Thistle Managing Director Ian Maxwell explains further

This season has once again proved that there is very little between several teams in the Premiership. The fact we got within a goal of finishing in the top half shows improvement. Everyone connected with Thistle wants us to make it over that line next season.

Every season, we examine our revenue streams and budgets. This year we have done that within the context of remaining debt free while pushing on on the pitch. Our budgeting process is very simple – we take all our income, take away our running costs in terms of the stadium, pitch, administration staff, etc. and the leftover is the manager’s player budget.

In terms of income, all of our revenue streams are variable and we are already working as hard as we can to maximise income from these areas. Home crowds, for example, have stabilised and we are now at a fairly consistent number of home supporters each week, around 2450 (including season ticket holders and under 16s). This will take time to increase.

“So, prompted by the original questions, the club has been considering the idea of a fund where all money raised would go directly to Archie’s playing budget. For all of us, the most important thing is to see a winning team on the pitch.

“Having taken that on board, we decided to create the Players Fund to allow fans to make a monthly donation, which goes directly to the manager’s player budget, at whatever level they can afford. Donations start from £5 per month and continue for as long as fans are able and willing to contribute.

“Please be assured, this is not a cry for help. We are debt free and will continue to operate with good business sense and within our means. This is simply a way of expanding those means and we would reiterate, once again, there is no expectation on any of our fans to contribute. The Players Fund is an easy way for those who want – and are able – to help Archie directly improve our chances of a top six finish in an increasingly competitive league.

To be very clear again – every penny raised will be spent by the manager to build the team.

“Thistle fans and the club share one common ambition…greater success on the pitch. Together, we make that happen.”

You can donate online now or email [email protected] to request a direct debit form.

And your point is ? 
 

was there a Group of Supporters who approached the Club a few weeks ago  

also we are not in the same Financial position as when it was first launched - we are having to rely on US Investors & TJF to balance the books 

therefore its lazy & a begging bowl 

[Jordanhill Jag]

7 hours ago, ChiThistle said:

A 10% stake in the club, according to the announcement?

Go look at the detail of the “ investment” the odds of the monies ever being repaid are pretty much zero 

its a handout

the Club should be balancing the Books on normal trading 

[scotty]

4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Go look at the detail of the “ investment” the odds of the monies ever being repaid are pretty much zero 

its a handout

the Club should be balancing the Books on normal trading 

So, should we go part time, sack all the directors and only appoint millionaires with a lot of spare cash to the board, sell off Firhill and ground share with Maryhill Juniors and perhaps ask the SPFL if we can go into the 3rd division and stay there? That could maybe balance the books without "begging" the people who own a majority of the club for some funding.

I know much of this is ridiculous over-exaggeration, but it was you who hi-jacked the thread in the first place.

[Very Bitter Jag]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And your point is ? 
 

was there a Group of Supporters who approached the Club a few weeks ago  

also we are not in the same Financial position as when it was first launched - we are having to rely on US Investors & TJF to balance the books 

therefore its lazy & a begging bowl 

The post was for everyone not just you. There is no point other to give context to how and why it started. Take a chill pill...

As for the rest of your post - what ever makes you happy but you must be tired of all that digging...

Edited December 4, 2023 by Very Bitter Jag
Just because.

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, scotty said:

So, should we go part time, sack all the directors and only appoint millionaires with a lot of spare cash to the board, sell off Firhill and ground share with Maryhill Juniors and perhaps ask the SPFL if we can go into the 3rd division and stay there? That could maybe balance the books without "begging" the people who own a majority of the club for some funding.

I know much of this is ridiculous over-exaggeration, but it was you who hi-jacked the thread in the first place.

We are already being funded by Millionaires - so lets not pretend 

you balance your budget - and play at the level that a balanced budget allows you to do 

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

We are already being funded by Millionaires - so lets not pretend 

you balance your budget - and play at the level that a balanced budget allows you to do 

This is fantasy for pretty much every single football club.